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How criminals used Canada's casinos to launder millions

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Sounds familiar to Londoners? Who was the person in common?

Guardian: How criminals used Canada's casinos to launder millions

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The impacts of the Vancouver model - as the scheme came to be known - is linked to the opioid crisis and unaffordable real estate market

The battle to clean up BC

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Back in 2011, when the average price of a Vancouver home was roughly 11 times the average household income, Mark Carney, who was the Governor of the Bank of Canada at the time, warned in a speech to the Vancouver Board of Trade that Vancouver real estate was taking on characteristics of financial asset markets that become trapped in “the classic market emotions of greed and fear — greed among speculators and investors — and fear among households that getting a foot on the property ladder is a now-or-never proposition.”

 

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nothing new  

all gambling establishments are a source for laundering.  cash paid in converted to chips paid out as a cheque. 

i took a grand into a casino 12 years ago won 5k and got paid as a cheque no questions asked. 

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4 minutes ago, longgone said:

nothing new  

all gambling establishments are a source for laundering.  cash paid in converted to chips paid out as a cheque. 

i took a grand into a casino 12 years ago won 5k and got paid as a cheque no questions asked. 

Nothing wrong with that.

You went in with your money and left with your money.

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2 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

Nothing wrong with that.

You went in with your money and left with your money.

but what if you turn up 4 times a week with 10k cash and leave with 10k cheques 4 times a week ?

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Just now, longgone said:

but what if you turn up 4 times a week with 10k cash and leave with 10k cheques 4 times a week ?

Why not? Innocent until proven guilty.

Either cash is legal or it isn't and the cheque is traceable to the casino.

 

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5 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

Why not? Innocent until proven guilty.

Either cash is legal or it isn't and the cheque is traceable to the casino.

 

well a casino is a perfect vehicle to clean up cash.  They will ban participants who do not deliberately lose a little though over time. 

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3 minutes ago, longgone said:

well a casino is a perfect vehicle to clean up cash.  They will ban participants who do not deliberately lose a little though over time. 

They sure will, and yes, a casino is a perfect vehicle to launder cash, but... I don't agree with forcing companies to investigate their customers, that should be the responsibility of the authorities.

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16 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

They sure will, and yes, a casino is a perfect vehicle to launder cash, but... I don't agree with forcing companies to investigate their customers, that should be the responsibility of the authorities.

How does that work then Bruce?

Do we really want state minders at all levels?

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2 hours ago, Aidan Ap Word said:

The cheques still have to be deposited?

Or are they cash cheques?

I think the laundering issue is that, once you get the casino check, you have a receipt to prove you lawfully have the dosh. I'm sure a lot of the FOBTs in betting shops are used to launder money. If you make £1k in drugs, just spend it at the bookies' machine. You'll probably get £800-900 back, depending on the % take of the machine. But then you have a receipt for £800 which, should anyone ask, you can produce to show why you have the cash.

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2 hours ago, Aidan Ap Word said:

The cheques still have to be deposited?

Or are they cash cheques?

you are missing the point ?? 

The cheque is from a casino a gambling organisation where participants go to win money.  

you have a source for the funds now as you did not with the cash you originally started with. 

 

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5 minutes ago, longgone said:

you are missing the point ?? 

The cheque is from a casino a gambling organisation where participants go to win money.  

you have a source for the funds now as you did not with the cash you originally started with. 

 

Yes, I think I was.

A piece of paper from a reputable (?) organisation that legitimises the source of the funds, I guess.

In the case of UWOs though ... would that hold up for the millions involved? OK, that is just another type of money laundering they are (allegedly) trying to stop.

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2 minutes ago, dryrot said:

I think the laundering issue is that, once you get the casino check, you have a receipt to prove you lawfully have the dosh. I'm sure a lot of the FOBTs in betting shops are used to launder money. If you make £1k in drugs, just spend it at the bookies' machine. You'll probably get £800-900 back, depending on the % take of the machine. But then you have a receipt for £800 which, should anyone ask, you can produce to show why you have the cash.

correct 

 

has been going on for decades. 

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4 minutes ago, Aidan Ap Word said:

Yes, I think I was.

A piece of paper from a reputable (?) organisation that legitimises the source of the funds, I guess.

In the case of UWOs though ... would that hold up for the millions involved? OK, that is just another type of money laundering they are (allegedly) trying to stop.

don`t see why not there are people who bet millions legitimately. 

a million to you or i is a lot of money to others it is pocket money.  

proof of source is all that matters. 

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35 minutes ago, longgone said:

don`t see why not there are people who bet millions legitimately. 

a million to you or i is a lot of money to others it is pocket money.  

proof of source is all that matters. 

Some folks don't see gambling institutions as reputable (not saying they are right or wrong).

In the case of an UWO, hundreds of gambling receipts with values in the thousands every time (in order to get to the millions/billions being chased by such orders) would be quite a big physical task ... And the really big ticket wins in a gaming centre are few and far between - surely the UWO inspection stuff would notice if one house or a small number of gaming institutions all issued these on some kind of pattern?

In terms of laundering monies in smaller-scale crime, absolutely ... someone with 250 or so receipts laundering 3k each time ... still crime, still big money, but not something an UWO would be ordered against?

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53 minutes ago, Aidan Ap Word said:

surely the UWO inspection stuff would notice if one house or a small number of gaming institutions all issued these on some kind of pattern?

 

But even if they do notice, so what?

Don't naively assume that the law will deal with it, cases have to be proved.

The only evidence available is that the money was gambling wins.

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18 hours ago, Aidan Ap Word said:

Some folks don't see gambling institutions as reputable (not saying they are right or wrong).

In the case of an UWO, hundreds of gambling receipts with values in the thousands every time (in order to get to the millions/billions being chased by such orders) would be quite a big physical task ... And the really big ticket wins in a gaming centre are few and far between - surely the UWO inspection stuff would notice if one house or a small number of gaming institutions all issued these on some kind of pattern?

In terms of laundering monies in smaller-scale crime, absolutely ... someone with 250 or so receipts laundering 3k each time ... still crime, still big money, but not something an UWO would be ordered against?

None of that matters. They have proof of where the money came from. 

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19 hours ago, Byron said:

But even if they do notice, so what?

Don't naively assume that the law will deal with it, cases have to be proved.

The only evidence available is that the money was gambling wins from the gambling establishment.

The only evidence available (in terms of the cashier receipts) is that the money was from the gambling organisation. The receipts do not prove which games were played and when and how much the receipt holder won on each game (and what the opening stake was).

Criminal investigations are about "beyond reasonable doubt".

Given that the receipts do not prove the events that describe the (alleged) "winnings" then reasonable doubt can be expressed in the answer: "Because I won this money in the casino". For this to be true over along series of receipts then the receipt holder would have to be:

  • unreasonably lucky; OR
  • arriving in to the institution with roughly matching amount of money OR
  • cheating the gambling institution (a crime in itself)

... remembering that we are talking about consistently winning not just 1 big win.

And if it is arriving with a large amount of money every time - such that the receipt at the end of the (alleged) visit can be reasonably related to the outcome - then the question remains: where did that source money come from.

But your point: cases have to be proved ... and even more a proven case have to be made for a specific crime or crimes - fortunately (for everyone) the police and criminal justice system can't just go fishing (or, at least, they shouldn't).

But an UWO is not a criminal investigation ... in a way such an Order is actually a fishing expedition.

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2 hours ago, longgone said:

None of that matters. They have proof of where the money came from. 

250 receipts over a long period of time for an amount of money within a range from a gambling institution proves that the funds came from the organisation, yes ... but they do not adequately explain why that organisation issued those receipts.

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51 minutes ago, Aidan Ap Word said:

250 receipts over a long period of time for an amount of money within a range from a gambling institution proves that the funds came from the organisation, yes ... but they do not adequately explain why that organisation issued those receipts.

Ban cash, all financial transactions to be electronic via government controlled banks, all citizens to be micro chipped.... job jobbed.

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15 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

Ban cash, all financial transactions to be electronic via government controlled banks, all citizens to be micro chipped.... job jobbed.

sounds like 2040 to me 

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  • 238 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
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      • up 5%



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