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Bruce Banner

They know who you are.

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This afternoon, for the third time recently and all with different companies, I was talking to a technical support operative when it became apparent that they knew exactly who I was and were accessing my customer account and details of the equipment I am using.

On the one hand this is good service as it is efficient and saves time, but it raises security issues. In each case I said something like "I didn't say who I am so you presumably have my details linked to my phone number" in each case there was a slightly embarrassed pause before the subject was changed. 

Good, bad, or just the world we live in?

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33 minutes ago, Sledgehead said:

I'm not sure what you mean. Can we have a faux example?

 

Okay.

You phone your ISP technical support on your mobile with a general query about your (ISP supplied) router settings and during the conversation they say something like "I'm logged into your router settings page now and can see that you have the xyz feature disabled". You ask how they know who you are as you did not identify yourself. Oops, they have presumably identified your mobile number (not with them) from a previous call and it has taken them straight into your account.

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Got it.

Yeah, a bit freaky, but if it's ISPs we're talking about, them having your mobo no. is hardly a big deal by comparison with everything else they might know about you (sites, searches, name, dob, email, credit card details, bank details, address, landline etc). It's akin to being miffed that your bank knows your tel no.

And if you've enabled remote router admin, plus use your isp supplied router (and kept the isp supplied login credentials), you can't be that serious about privacy anyhow.

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Actually, it wasn't my ISP but you asked for a faux example to make it clearer and I didn't want to say who it was as they were actually really helpful.

Today's example was an electronic equipment manufacturer but they are not alone in logging mobile numbers and using them to instantly identify returning callers and logging directly into their accounts.

With regard to remote router admin, my ISP lock the routers they supply so that only they can access the router remotely. If I want to do it myself I would need to buy a third party router and since the ISP one is pretty good I don't see the point in spending the money just to lock them out. As long as they don't mess with my port forwarding I don't care.

 

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39 minutes ago, Exiled Canadian said:

Is it possible to set you mobile to "with-hold number" so the receiving party can't see the number you are calling from?

Yes, but that can cause problems as some people set their phones to reject withheld numbers.

It's also possible to prefix the number dialled with 141 to withhold your number on that one call.

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This kind of thing is why I replace my SIM card every 4 hours and stick the old one in the shredder. Can't be too careful, I don't want Mossad knowing I rang my mum last night.

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13 hours ago, Dorkins said:

This kind of thing is why I replace my SIM card every 4 hours and stick the old one in the shredder. Can't be too careful, I don't want Mossad knowing I rang my mum last night.

sadly the imei number of the phone would identify you regardless of sim used. a quick triangulation of the closest masts and they know where you are too. 

 

i have noticed on my phone if i quickly go to settings the "location" switches itself off as if to say its on all the time and makes the user think they have switched location off. 

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On 05/10/2018 at 13:47, Bruce Banner said:

Yes, but that can cause problems as some people set their phones to reject withheld numbers.

It's also possible to prefix the number dialled with 141 to withhold your number on that one call.

One minor point, the '141' prefix doesn't always work on all network operators.

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I heard on the news this morning that a company, Nike I think, is setting up a system to recognise and greet customers as they enter their stores. If I walked into a shop and was identified and greeted, by name, by a machine, I'd be out of there PDQ, never to return.

Do people really think this sort of thing is good? Can they not see the thin end of the wedge?

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On 25/10/2018 at 13:15, Bruce Banner said:

I heard on the news this morning that a company, Nike I think, is setting up a system to recognise and greet customers as they enter their stores. If I walked into a shop and was identified and greeted, by name, by a machine, I'd be out of there PDQ, never to return.

Do people really think this sort of thing is good? Can they not see the thin end of the wedge?

Sounds bloody awful to me, so probably something else that'll be embraced by the brainless hoards of high tech obsessed for the sake of it morons that constitute a large proportion of the population. Where did they get the idea from, Minority Report?

I go in to a shop and buy something. Who I am is none of their business. That I've been there before is none of their business. That I've bought something before is only their business in that they need to know what they've sold, who to - none of their business. Any move in the other direction I find distinctly unpleasant, not because I fear any bigger consequences but simply because I find it creepy, intrusive, and hugely disrespectful of people.

I'd probably be a little less against change on principle if nearly everything that changed these days didn't make the world less like somewhere I want to live in. When people start calling it all "improvement", well, please bring on WWIII.

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Of course it will be embraced. It is doing something that humans crave: relieving them of responsibility.

All tech does this. Take the car. Or instead, try not taking a car, if you're used to one. Suddenly life becomes an organizational minefield. Now you have to decide whether you really do need that laptop as well as that overcoat and made-from-scratch, extra-healthy, dehli lunch-box, plus water-bottle: if it's that cold you need the overcoat, but if it's warmer you'll need the water-bottle. Maybe you should just buy your beverage and lunch, despite what your dietician and environmentalists tell you?

Same with this: hopefully, someday that store-welcoming ai will remind you that you are running low on bread, if it hasn't already ordered a delivery for you.

It's all about taking decisions away from you. because in truth, that's what most of us really want. Second referendum anyone?

Edited by Sledgehead

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On 25/10/2018 at 13:15, Bruce Banner said:

I heard on the news this morning that a company, Nike I think, is setting up a system to recognise and greet customers as they enter their stores. If I walked into a shop and was identified and greeted, by name, by a machine, I'd be out of there PDQ, never to return.

Do people really think this sort of thing is good? Can they not see the thin end of the wedge?

hmm facial recognition by cameras or rfid chip from your payment cards or possible scan nfc running on plebs phone. 

i doubt i would set foot in a nike store anyway. 

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Last week, I placed an online order for a part for my wife's car with a company I've used many times before. 

When I got the confirmation email it showed the package as being dispatched to my wife. Same address and surname, of course, but my wife's first name and phone number.

When I phoned the supplier to find out what the hell was going on they said "Nothing to worry about, as you used the registration number to identify the part, our system uses the name of the registered keeper".

So, it looks like suppliers can access the DVLA database and obtain not just the vehicle details but also the, name, address and telephone number of vehicle keepers :(

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2 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

Last week, I placed an online order for a part for my wife's car with a company I've used many times before. 

When I got the confirmation email it showed the package as being dispatched to my wife. Same address and surname, of course, but my wife's first name and phone number.

When I phoned the supplier to find out what the hell was going on they said "Nothing to worry about, as you used the registration number to identify the part, our system uses the name of the registered keeper".

So, it looks like suppliers can access the DVLA database and obtain not just the vehicle details but also the, name, address and telephone number of vehicle keepers :(

 they don't need to have your id linked to your reg just to sell you the right part,. I guess the q that needs addressing is why does gdpr allow this?

Edited by Sledgehead

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"our system uses the name of the registered keeper"

They could theoretically find themselves in a legal grey area with this policy - your wife could accept delivery, while she would not become the legal owner of the items she equally has no legal responsibility to go out of her way to return them, not having ordered them in the first place. Meanwhile you could claim an entirely justifiable chargeback for non-delivery.

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18 minutes ago, Sledgehead said:

If you don't want all your vehicular part purchases logged and linked to your identity (other than in the payment system) you really do need to get your manual out and determine the exact make / model / engine you have purchased, and have sufficient faith in this to purchase parts on that basis.

The easy way is, ofcourse, to whack in your reg, proving the platitude that convenience is the enemy of security / privacy. Another example of the latter is the 20 minutes I lost when I destroyed the nfc on my credit card last weekend. The choice is yours: time / effort vs security / privacy.

That's not to say I don't recognise the centrl point you are making: they don't need to have your id linked to your reg just to sell you the right part,. I guess the q that needs addressing is why does gdpr allow this?

Yeah, it's not so much stopping them doing it, that's the easy bit, stopping their ability to do it is not so straightforward.

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On 25/10/2018 at 13:15, Bruce Banner said:

I heard on the news this morning that a company, Nike I think, is setting up a system to recognise and greet customers as they enter their stores. If I walked into a shop and was identified and greeted, by name, by a machine, I'd be out of there PDQ, never to return.

Do people really think this sort of thing is good? Can they not see the thin end of the wedge?

The logic behind this is similar to "store greeters" when people have been recognised by an actual human they are massively less likely to shoplift anything, but if they wander into a huge warehouse size shop which appears to be empty of staff they are much more likely to try and do a runner with some item of merchandise.

Now whether some kind of Robo-Shop-Greeter will be as effective as a person remains to be seen. I have often thought it must be one of the most soulless jobs anyone could possibly do.

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5 minutes ago, Habeas Domus said:

"our system uses the name of the registered keeper"

They could theoretically find themselves in a legal grey area with this policy - your wife could accept delivery, while she would not become the legal owner of the items she equally has no legal responsibility to go out of her way to return them, not having ordered them in the first place. Meanwhile you could claim an entirely justifiable chargeback for non-delivery.

Compensation too? She received an SMS from the carrier with a delivery time, completely destroying the surprise and stopping me gift wrapping the nice oil filter I bought for her birthday.

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3 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

Compensation too? She received an SMS from the carrier with a delivery time, completely destroying the surprise and stopping me gift wrapping the nice oil filter I bought for her birthday.

I hope she knows how lucky she is

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Talking to someone, owns an old car plus 15 years old, bought privately secondhand, always used a local garage for service and MOT.......never set foot in a main dealership.......few days ago got a cold call from the main dealership to remind them that their car is due for an MOT would they like to book it in.......they must have a list of every car of that make in the area, how old, who owns it, where it is, and the telephone number and know when the mot due.... trying to get more business, saying something.;)

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On 04/10/2018 at 23:24, Bruce Banner said:

Okay.

You phone your ISP technical support on your mobile with a general query about your (ISP supplied) router settings and during the conversation they say something like "I'm logged into your router settings page now and can see that you have the xyz feature disabled". You ask how they know who you are as you did not identify yourself. Oops, they have presumably identified your mobile number (not with them) from a previous call and it has taken them straight into your account.

that's because every modem and router has a MAC address.

it's basically a hardware version of your IP address.

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6 minutes ago, oracle said:

that's because every modem and router has a MAC address.

it's basically a hardware version of your IP address.

Why would they know that that MAC address is the one for your router?

edit: just noticed "ISP supplied"

Edited by Riedquat

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  • 245 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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