Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
Sign in to follow this  
Saving For a Space Ship

Is This a Massive Bubble Creating Fraud in the Irish PCP Car Loan Market ?

Recommended Posts

Just posted this on the long running car pcp hpc thread, but thought it deserved its own thread..

 

Allegedly,  Is this a massive bubble creating fraud ,  by mis -reporting / overestimating the sales figures to deceive potential buyers by exageration .?.

'hey , everybody is doing it, get on board !' 

Could it also be a sign of desperation ? 

edit:

Central Bank finds fewer PCP deals in the State than previously thought

Bank revises down number of outstanding contracts by 50,000

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/central-bank-finds-fewer-pcp-deals-in-the-state-than-previously-thought-1.3628052

Quote

..The Central Bank has found the personal contract plan (PCP) car finance market is considerably smaller than previously thought, but has reiterated its concerns about the sector.

In March, the regulator warned of “increased indebtedness” of consumers who sign PCPs, as well as the banking system’s exposure to the car market with the scheme becoming the go-to source for finance in the Irish market.

At the time the Central Bank found there were 126,249 outstanding PCP contracts but on Thursday it revised that figure down by almost 50,000 contracts to 76,582.

The downward revision came due to car companies over-reporting the number of outstanding PCP deals. Some smaller car companies included expired deals in the reported number whereas they should have only included outstanding contracts.

In the first six months of this year there was €347 million of new lending in PCPs, down 15 per cent than the same period in 2017. The total market is now equivalent to about €1.4 billion...

 

 

  Quote

PCP lending falls 15% in first half of the year Friday, September 14, 2018 - 06:30 AM By Pádraig Hoare The amount of personal contract plans (PCP) for car loans in the Republic is considerably less than previously thought, according to the Central Bank — lending in the field fell 15% in the first half of the year.

Data from the financial watchdog showed there was €347m of new lending in PCPs in the first six months of 2018, 15% lower than the same period last year. At the end of 2017, Irish households owned 76,582 contracts related to PCP finance, equivalent to €1.4bn, said the Central Bank.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/car-loan-estimate-goes-into-reverse-n0wv58k26

 

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/pcp-lending-falls-15-in-first-half-of-the-year-868889.html

  Quote

At the end of 2017, Irish households owned 76,582 contracts related to PCP finance, equivalent to €1.4bn, said the Central Bank...This figure was significantly reduced from earlier this year, when calculations suggested there were 126,249 PCPs.

The reduction of almost 50,000 comes after it emerged some car firms overestimated the number of PCPs by including expired agreements when reporting to the Central Bank...A report last month found the majority of motorists on PCPs do not understand how they work and could be left with nothing to show for it at the end of their agreement.

The Competition and Consumer Protection Commission (CCPC) said further protections are needed for customers in the growing PCP market. There has been criticism from political figures of both the Central Bank and the CCPC over responsibility of the protection of consumers when it comes to PCPs.

Fianna Fáil finance spokesman Michael McGrath has called it a “glaring hole” that PCP customers are not included in the Central Bank’s consumer protection code. Both the CCPC and the Central Bank have insisted the responsibility to regulate PCP agreements lies with the other.

The reduction in new lending in PCPs can in part be attributed to a slowdown in new car sales, the Central Bank says in its latest report. Society of the Irish Motor Industry figures show total new car sales are down 4.5% for the first half of 2018 compared with the same period in 2017.

The Central Bank said that as PCP financing is used predominantly for new cars, the lower new car sales number is likely to have had an effect on PCP lending amounts.

Bank of Ireland has been the biggest provider of finance for PCPs in the Republic, with major brands such as Ford, Opel, Hyundai, and Kia all using the bank. Central Bank researchers have suggested negative equity may be of particular concern in the market, given the post-Brexit fall in the value of sterling which has seen an increase in cheaper used-car imports

(poss from uk dumping used ex-pcp cars from their market)

Quote

Figures earlier this week showed consumers in the Republic are continuing to take advantage of the weakness in sterling by buying used cars from the UK.

The Central Statistics Office said the number of imported vehicles licensed in the State for the first eight months of the year rose by 10.4 per cent to 67,060

. In contrast the number of new cars licensed here fell by 4.5 per cent to 111,461.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/central-bank-finds-fewer-pcp-deals-in-the-state-than-previously-thought-1.3628052

— potentially reducing the prices of used cars in the future and pushing existing PCPs towards negative equity.

 

Edited by Saving For a Space Ship

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ireland, being a small country, is riddled with corruption incompetence.

Any country under 20m suffers the same - se oz, nz. Especially see malta.

If theres something in ireland that involves money, regulators and pols you can guarantee itll be bent.

The onky way small countrues can survive large comianies esp banks is to be painfully open and transparent - all public sector salaries open, all interests and cash paid open, brural punishment for anyone skimming.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, spyguy said:

Ireland, being a small country, is riddled with corruption incompetence.

Any country under 20m suffers the same - se oz, nz. Especially see malta.

If theres something in ireland that involves money, regulators and pols you can guarantee itll be bent.

The onky way small countrues can survive large comianies esp banks is to be painfully open and transparent - all public sector salaries open, all interests and cash paid open, brural punishment for anyone skimming.

I agree. The cost of cars seems far higher than in the UK - not sure why. Dublin housing even seems crazier than London. And food prices are sky high - but the quality is good. 

Also a limited supply of solicitors and accountants who literally fleece people as a result. One solicitor I had dealings with did the conveyancing for a couple who were actually buying the house from him!  He disguised this by using the Gaelic version of his name in the paperwork. He was caught after the couple found out post purchase and he was merely given a fine by the regulators and is still practising despite having committed fraud. In the UK he would have been struck off!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, spyguy said:

Ireland, being a small country, is riddled with corruption incompetence.

Any country under 20m suffers the same - se oz, nz. Especially see malta.

I'm intrigued what this has to do with country size. Please explain your reasoning about this. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, bushblairandbrown said:

I'm intrigued what this has to do with country size. Please explain your reasoning about this. 

Name one country with more than 20m people that has corruption or incompetence.

bet you cannot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, prozac said:

Name one country with more than 20m people that has corruption or incompetence.

bet you cannot

Don't know if you're trolling but I''ll bite with Russia, China, Italy, most of SE Asia, all of Africa, Brazil, etc the list goes on

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, skrillex said:

Don't know if you're trolling but I''ll bite with Russia, China, Italy, most of SE Asia, all of Africa, Brazil, etc the list goes on

Trolling,

You could add on another 50 more

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, spyguy said:

Ireland, being a small country, is riddled with corruption incompetence.

Any country under 20m suffers the same - se oz, nz. Especially see malta.

What a bizarre BS thing to claim, have you actually got any evidence to back this up 🙄

 

And Australia's population is 24 million.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, BoredByTorque said:

What a bizarre BS thing to claim, have you actually got any evidence to back this up 🙄

 

And Australia's population is 24 million.

Spyguy has lost it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its mainly developed countries where thers a law system and fractional reserve banking in place.

Small places where the bias to put nationals into regulatory places.

Does not work when the regulator is married to the dodgy companies CEO - too small and incestuous..

 

Ill give some examples.

Ireland

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Haughey

Anyone who followed his career and 'where does he get the money from?' wealth as Ireland grew from being a 3rd world/agri economy, to joining the EU and the banks blowing up.

Population ~3m - near in mind people in charge in 2007 would have been born 50ish years previous.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2011/03/michael-lewis-ireland-201103

iceland

Below 500k.

'Discovered fractional reserve banking sometime in the late 90s. Blew up.

https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2009/04/iceland200904-2

Malta.

The sh1t is yet to hit the fan. But with blowing up journos.

 

Oz:

Popualtio nwhen they had their last recession was just under 20m. There's the ongoing royal commsion int oOz finance ongoing now. Its nt making a good reading.

Another example -Wesfarmers buying homebase. Alan Bond etc etc etc.

 

Nz:

From a comment of the register:

From the book "I've been thinking" (1996) by New Zealand politician Richard Prebble:

'"The Post Office told me they were having terrible problems tracking telephone lines ... They found an excellent program in Sweden which the Swedes were prepared to sell them for $2m .... So the managers decided to budget $1m for translating into English and another $1m for contingencies.

... But, as the general manager explained, it had turned out to be more expensive than the contingency budget allowed and they needed another $7m

"How much", I asked, "have you spent on it so far?"

"Thirty-seven million dollars" was the reply.

"Why don't we cancel the programme?" I asked

"How can we cancel a programme that has cost $37m?" they asked

"Do you believe the programme will ever work?" I asked

"No, not properly"

"Then write me a letter recommending its cancellation and I will sign it"

The relief was visible. I signed the letter, but I knew I needed new managers."'

 

Sweden.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_banking_rescue

They are about to repeat this again. For the same reasons.

 

Last but not least: Scotland - RBS, HBOS, Fred the shred. 5m.

A clique within Edinburgh, with their own pet Pol Brown.

What could go wrong?

 

Its not that countries with bigger pops are better wrong - some obviously are not. But the chances of having someone in pwoer not in a clique is a lot better.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, spyguy said:

Its not that countries with bigger pops are better wrong - some obviously are not. But the chances of having someone in pwoer not in a clique is a lot better.

"self-governance only works in small groups" vs "bigger groups have better self-governance"

I like what you have to say usually, but you do come out with some corkers.

On 16/09/2018 at 12:53, Saving For a Space Ship said:

Is this a massive bubble creating fraud[?]

This massive bubble is enabling fraud., which then contributes to the bubble.

Makes the way down extra spicy.

ainsley.jpg

Edited by Locke

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Locke said:

"self-governance only works in small groups" vs "bigger groups have better self-governance"

I like what you have to say usually, but you do come out with some corkers.

This massive bubble is enabling fraud., which then contributes to the bubble.

Makes the way down extra spicy.

ainsley.jpg

Nope.

Im not on about big v. small.

 

Its the fact the larger the population the less likely that the ruling classes are going to be all related.

Ireland and NZ and Oz have a shocking lack of diversity  - its the same old same old.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having lived in Ireland, though a long time ago, I can vouch for SpyGuy's view of small countries and corruption.

The problem stems from the fact that the politicians, heads of industry, bankers and landowners all went to the same schools and same universities, and are often related by blood and marriage.

We have a slightly similar problem with PPE graduates from Oxford.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ireland is pretty corrupt but it's not as sophisticated as hiding the corruption as say, the UK.

On the other hand it's more sophisticated at covering it up than say, a South American country.

Part of the problem is that screwing over the system once meant getting one over on the hated British administration so it was  socially acceptable to be on the take.  Of course these days, screwing the system means screwing the Irish taxpayer but that tolerance and acceptance of corruption in public institutions lingers somewhat.

Plus, the Irish voter is on average if anything even more ignorant than the average British voter.  That certainly helps politicians and bureaucrats to get away with grift,

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 144 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.