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Saving For a Space Ship

Calls for action over illegal traveller sites "make deliberate trespass a criminal offence".

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Calls for action over illegal traveller sites

"make deliberate trespass a criminal offence".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45479975

I wonder what the knock on effect would be ? ie. would squatting commercial premises also be considered 

deliberate trespass, so a criminal offence.

Maybe closer examination of the  irish situation as mentioned in the article is required.

 

Perhaps double the housing stock by making them out of anti matter, so give them all houses 🙂

  Antimatter seen in two places at once thanks to quantum experiment

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2179061-antimatter-seen-in-two-places-at-once-thanks-to-quantum-experiment/

Edited by Saving For a Space Ship

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There was a story in the DM recently that showed one of the vans numberplates; I had a little check and its tax ran out years ago. Why do they need new laws when a very simple one would be to go in a remove all untaxed vehicles?

The reason it's a problem is purely one of inaction, little to do with laws. I worry that increasing the punishment will harm #vanlifers like me who enjoy a bit of wildcamping.

For example, I spent 3 days in a NT carpark in Pembrokeshire the other weekend (on and off). The carpark had a 'no overnight parking' sign, so lots of vans lined the very narrow road outside. This seemed stupid to me that people would risk increased danger, not to mention the road had a massive slope making the night uncomfortable when there was a completely empty carpark for everyone to use. I just used the carpark knowing if anyone came to complain I could pretty much tell them I'm not moving and nothing could be done. What if I faced the possibility of police moving me, just because I fancied a bit of surfing for a few days?

The reason why I parked there is thus: I paid £13 for one night on a field next to a toilet block with no hot water. This carpark provided exactly the same, if not better location for absolutely nothing. It wasn't busy so I didn't deny usage to anyone else so I can't see why there would ever be a problem. Campsites are becoming a total ripoff these days.

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7 minutes ago, honkydonkey said:

There was a story in the DM recently that showed one of the vans numberplates; I had a little check and its tax ran out years ago. Why do they need new laws when a very simple one would be to go in a remove all untaxed vehicles?

The reason it's a problem is purely one of inaction, little to do with laws. I worry that increasing the punishment will harm #vanlifers like me who enjoy a bit of wildcamping.

For example, I spent 3 days in a NT carpark in Pembrokeshire the other weekend (on and off). The carpark had a 'no overnight parking' sign, so lots of vans lined the very narrow road outside. This seemed stupid to me that people would risk increased danger, not to mention the road had a massive slope making the night uncomfortable when there was a completely empty carpark for everyone to use. I just used the carpark knowing if anyone came to complain I could pretty much tell them I'm not moving and nothing could be done. What if I faced the possibility of police moving me, just because I fancied a bit of surfing for a few days?

The reason why I parked there is thus: I paid £13 for one night on a field next to a toilet block with no hot water. This carpark provided exactly the same, if not better location for absolutely nothing. It wasn't busy so I didn't deny usage to anyone else so I can't see why there would ever be a problem. Campsites are becoming a total ripoff these days.

any idea why campsites are too expensive . ie insurance increases / liabilty , or just landowner troughing ? 

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1 minute ago, Saving For a Space Ship said:

any idea why campsites are too expensive . ie insurance increases / liabilty , or just landowner troughing ? 

I visited the same campsite 5 years prior and it was £5. It's clearly troughing because often campsites minimum charge covers 2 adults, so as a single I pay the double price. It seems to me when one campsite goes down this route all the others in the area follow, so the minimum prices start high.

It never works like this on the continent, where you pay for everything individually, ie, motorhome + adult + dog + electricity.

On the gower i'd have to pay £25 for 1 night of camping. You can get travelodge rooms for that amount with a bit of planning, yet I get a bit of grass and toilet block.

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4 hours ago, honkydonkey said:

For example, I spent 3 days in a NT carpark in Pembrokeshire the other weekend (on and off). The carpark had a 'no overnight parking' sign, so lots of vans lined the very narrow road outside. This seemed stupid to me

At a minimum, this will be for a whole host of regulatory and insurance reasons, as well as effectively making their car parks massive campsites, reducing the space for ordinary visitors.

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44 minutes ago, Ah-so said:

At a minimum, this will be for a whole host of regulatory and insurance reasons, as well as effectively making their car parks massive campsites, reducing the space for ordinary visitors.

This,

When I was a duty manager at a 4 star hotel in the countryside I often had to work nights.

Every week you would get a caravans/campers try it on and park there all night and then they often get the monk on when told to move.

If we did not move them I am certain the place would turn into a campsite and the customers do not want to pay 100£+ a night and look out and see people in their caravans.

Many would also try and park against the hotel to try and scrounge the wifi.

If they were relatives of other guests and/or had spent some money in the restaurant my boss at the time often let it slide if they had nice clean caravans + asked + parked where requested.......this seldom happened with people preferring not the ask and try it on.

From a planning perspective I also believe this was not allowed either to prevent hotels getting large car parks and then turning them into campsites.

Edited by Fromage Frais

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6 hours ago, Saving For a Space Ship said:

Perhaps double the housing stock by making them out of anti matter, so give them all houses 🙂

 

I know a landlord that rented his house through the council.. They gave his house to travelers, not sure if Irish or Roma  

They stole everything, doors, lights, all the wire, all the heating pipes, ripped up all the floorboards, pulled the cables from the walls.. 😂

he was very upset that his slavery plans were thwarted.. when the slaves don’t play nicely.. 

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7 hours ago, Ah-so said:

At a minimum, this will be for a whole host of regulatory and insurance reasons, as well as effectively making their car parks massive campsites, reducing the space for ordinary visitors.

Why would regulations and insurance only cover nighttime? You can park in a campervan and go to sleep in it during the day, nothing to state otherwise.

What they really should do is have 48 hour maximum stay, no return in 7 days or something along those lines. Which is what every other country manages to do without problems.

What is the difference between moving your van from the car park, to another field you pay for at night, then back to the car park again for the day, you're still taking the spaces when other people want to use them?

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While I have some sympathy for people avoiding paying extortionate prices for housing, the problem with travellers is not just that they take up some parking space but the anti-social behaviour which occurs wherever they park.  Rubbish, noise, feral children terrorising local businesses, etc.  These are by no means traveller-specific problems but it is pretty tough on a surrounding community when they all happen at once.

So while I agree that the main problem is probably lack of action rather than inability to enforce existing laws, I do see a problem with any enforcement due to no fixed address and not a great deal of property to confiscate.  Therefore, if criminalising some of their actions is required to prevent other anti-social actions, so be it.

Unless there is some sort of scoring system implemented:

- Untaxed car - ok

- Children annoying staff at a shop - ok

- Noise - ok

- Damping rubbish - ok

But if 3 out 4 criteria met, then impound the caravan.

13 hours ago, honkydonkey said:

There was a story in the DM recently that showed one of the vans numberplates; I had a little check and its tax ran out years ago. Why do they need new laws when a very simple one would be to go in a remove all untaxed vehicles?

The reason it's a problem is purely one of inaction, little to do with laws. I worry that increasing the punishment will harm #vanlifers like me who enjoy a bit of wildcamping.

For example, I spent 3 days in a NT carpark in Pembrokeshire the other weekend (on and off). The carpark had a 'no overnight parking' sign, so lots of vans lined the very narrow road outside. This seemed stupid to me that people would risk increased danger, not to mention the road had a massive slope making the night uncomfortable when there was a completely empty carpark for everyone to use. I just used the carpark knowing if anyone came to complain I could pretty much tell them I'm not moving and nothing could be done. What if I faced the possibility of police moving me, just because I fancied a bit of surfing for a few days?

The reason why I parked there is thus: I paid £13 for one night on a field next to a toilet block with no hot water. This carpark provided exactly the same, if not better location for absolutely nothing. It wasn't busy so I didn't deny usage to anyone else so I can't see why there would ever be a problem. Campsites are becoming a total ripoff these days.

 

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14 hours ago, honkydonkey said:

There was a story in the DM recently that showed one of the vans numberplates; I had a little check and its tax ran out years ago. Why do they need new laws when a very simple one would be to go in a remove all untaxed vehicles?

The reason it's a problem is purely one of inaction, little to do with laws. I worry that increasing the punishment will harm #vanlifers like me who enjoy a bit of wildcamping.

For example, I spent 3 days in a NT carpark in Pembrokeshire the other weekend (on and off). The carpark had a 'no overnight parking' sign, so lots of vans lined the very narrow road outside. This seemed stupid to me that people would risk increased danger, not to mention the road had a massive slope making the night uncomfortable when there was a completely empty carpark for everyone to use. I just used the carpark knowing if anyone came to complain I could pretty much tell them I'm not moving and nothing could be done. What if I faced the possibility of police moving me, just because I fancied a bit of surfing for a few days?

The reason why I parked there is thus: I paid £13 for one night on a field next to a toilet block with no hot water. This carpark provided exactly the same, if not better location for absolutely nothing. It wasn't busy so I didn't deny usage to anyone else so I can't see why there would ever be a problem. Campsites are becoming a total ripoff these days.

No problem with recreational and responsible people staying on public land on a short term basis. Just utter scumbags like the link below who unfortunately seem to be the majority.

http://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/news/16695288.builder-connected-to-waste-dumped-illegally-at-traveller-site-at-former-wycombe-sports-centre-near-marlow-hill-fined/

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9 hours ago, Odysseus said:

No problem with recreational and responsible people staying on public land on a short term basis. Just utter scumbags like the link below who unfortunately seem to be the majority.

http://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/news/16695288.builder-connected-to-waste-dumped-illegally-at-traveller-site-at-former-wycombe-sports-centre-near-marlow-hill-fined/

I agree but the trouble is councils love to use new laws against everyone but their intended targets. Anti-terror laws to spy on 'bin crimes' springs to mind.

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15 hours ago, honkydonkey said:

Why would regulations and insurance only cover nighttime? You can park in a campervan and go to sleep in it during the day, nothing to state otherwise.

What they really should do is have 48 hour maximum stay, no return in 7 days or something along those lines. Which is what every other country manages to do without problems.

What is the difference between moving your van from the car park, to another field you pay for at night, then back to the car park again for the day, you're still taking the spaces when other people want to use them?

Regulations do apply in the daytime, and that is when the properties have staff and security on the ground. 

I suspect that if they permitted overnight stays they would probably need staff overnight and they would be legally for accidents that happen while you are there etc.

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10 hours ago, Ah-so said:

Regulations do apply in the daytime, and that is when the properties have staff and security on the ground. 

I suspect that if they permitted overnight stays they would probably need staff overnight and they would be legally for accidents that happen while you are there etc.

The place I’m referring to is a free car park with zero staff. 

I don’t think it’s anything to do with regulations or insurance. I think it’s more to do with the English psyche of denying people freedom  

 

Edited by honkydonkey

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15 hours ago, honkydonkey said:

The place I’m referring to is a free car park with zero staff. 

I don’t think it’s anything to do with regulations or insurance. I think it’s more to do with the English psyche of denying people freedom  

 

I do not think that there is an "English psyche of denying people freedom." We are after all one of the few countries that do not have ID cards, and have large parts of our land designated as "common land", that can be used at any time, within reason. Commons, unlike parks, do not get closed off at night. But I digress...

The car park you refer to may be free and not be permanently staffed, the establishment's public liability insurance will probably only apply within business hours and to people who are permitted to be on the premises. If people are permitted to be on the premises, then the establishment will be legally responsible for any accidents that occur. Insurance contracts will also probably require that an appropriate number of staff members are available.

Then there is the wider risk of rubbish being left behind and also the risk that gypsies might begin using it.

They are not doing it to thwart your attempt to find a place to rest with your campervan for the night.

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  • 152 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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      • down 5% +
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      • up 5%



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