2rocketman Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 I think stamp duty reform could be on the agenda at the next budget. HMRC figures show revenue fell to 3.91 billion in the four months to July, 10% down on the same period last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustAnotherProle Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, fru-gal said: In that case they need to increase the percentage paid on second homes ?. Indeed, 20% on second homes, 30% on third homes..etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest_northshore Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 9 hours ago, 2rocketman said: I think stamp duty reform could be on the agenda at the next budget. HMRC figures show revenue fell to 3.91 billion in the four months to July, 10% down on the same period last year. Possibly - a stupid tax that should be replaced with something else to prevent any cuts being capitalised into higher prices. But Gov introduced FTB relief estimated to be £125m in Q2, and drop needs to be seen in perspective: https://twitter.com/HenryPryor https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/quarterly-stamp-duty-statistics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2rocketman Posted August 23, 2018 Author Share Posted August 23, 2018 Well, I have read there is talk of an increase to 5% on second homes. I can’t see them making it any higher but it would be welcome as it would hammer the market. I am intrigued to see where they go with the rate next. If they leave it unchanged or increase it, then it’s a clear sign they are going to let the market do its thing. I can’t help but think they will reduce it to try and keep prices up and boost activity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugsbody Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 On 23/08/2018 at 10:14, guest_northshore said: Possibly - a stupid tax that should be replaced with something else to prevent any cuts being capitalised into higher prices. We're not going to live in the UK forever (although anything could change) but we've got at least another 5-10 years here. I'd like to move to a bigger house but in London that means handing an immediate £25k+ sunk cost. It makes me reluctant to move because this cost is incurred every time you do. Very annoying. A land tax would be better, as long as they offered a sticky tax credit for people who'd paid the stamp duty lump sum within the last X years, proportional to what you paid and tapering off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Democorruptcy Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 Maybe it's time to do taxes excluding MPs? They are thieving so much money a little bit more won't matter. Then they might be more willing to tax second homes. We could have a new trougher, 'Minister for Taxes Excluding MPs'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 Quote George Osborne's stamp duty hikes 'paralysing the housing market and costing the Treasury hundreds of millions in lost revenue' Daily Mail ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 6 minutes ago, rollover said: George Osborne's stamp duty hikes 'paralysing the housing market and costing the Treasury hundreds of millions in lost revenue' Daily Mail ? Hmm, I wonder if it's the couple of percent stamp duty that's killing the market or the other 98% of the price of buying a house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtickle Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 4 hours ago, Dorkins said: Hmm, I wonder if it's the couple of percent stamp duty that's killing the market or the other 98% of the price of buying a house. Very well put Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmin Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 On 23/08/2018 at 09:56, JustAnotherProle said: Indeed, 20% on second homes, 30% on third homes..etc etc. 100% on second homes, 200% on third home etc. Eliminate stamp duty entirely on first homes, but absolutely kick the shit out of landlords (massive windfall taxes, higher rates of CGT, immediate hikes on taxes on rental incomes) and introduce a land value tax. Probably aim to receive slightly more from LVT etc. than is currently received in stamp duty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micawber Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 On 23/08/2018 at 00:03, 2rocketman said: I think stamp duty reform could be on the agenda at the next budget. HMRC figures show revenue fell to 3.91 billion in the four months to July, 10% down on the same period last year. Don't panic. Stamp Duty receipts will soon pick up as transactions increase while prices drop. Then there will also be the added CGT on the sale of all those investment properties. Good times ahead for the government coffers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 Sitting ducks..... Less can be more... CT banding is what requires a review.... For example how can a D band million pound property have the same annual CT charge as a £250000 property... When was once calculated on the rateable value of a home.... Just goes to show how inequality of pricing has got so far out of alignment, those with more pay less in proportion of those holding less.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 21 hours ago, Dorkins said: Hmm, I wonder if it's the couple of percent stamp duty that's killing the market or the other 98% of the price of buying a house. Stamp duty is 10%, and its killing the market for houses in London. £60K stamp duty for a house? people who buy million pound houses don't have money like that. Its bonkers and also hilarious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomfordDon Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 The most obvious move is to add stamp duty to the mortgage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtickle Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 2 hours ago, Peter Hun said: Stamp duty is 10%, and its killing the market for houses in London. £60K stamp duty for a house? people who buy million pound houses don't have money like that. Its bonkers and also hilarious. I assume that was sarcasm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 25 minutes ago, mrtickle said: I assume that was sarcasm No, of course not. The vast majority of people buying at this price depend on existing equity and have been stretched to pay their existing liabilities. Raising that amount of money (60k) would take a long time and it would be very painful to lose on stamp duty. Nobody leaves cash lying about, they invest it in property. Hence the massive slow down on sales of £1M+ properties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 1 hour ago, RomfordDon said: The most obvious move is to add stamp duty to the mortgage If they allow that, buyer loses 10% LTV which could be a dream breaker, plus affordability issues. Net effect is 10% lower prices, Opposite effect to Help To Buy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash4781 Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 On 23/08/2018 at 00:03, 2rocketman said: I think stamp duty reform could be on the agenda at the next budget. HMRC figures show revenue fell to 3.91 billion in the four months to July, 10% down on the same period last year. Ha name a tax (eg. council , income ) or collection / other (eg. business rates, national insurance) that isn’t in a mess and in need of structural reform! Stamp duty land tax they can tinker with for win win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnconventionalWisdom Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 6 hours ago, winkie said: Sitting ducks..... Less can be more... CT banding is what requires a review.... For example how can a D band million pound property have the same annual CT charge as a £250000 property... When was once calculated on the rateable value of a home.... Just goes to show how inequality of pricing has got so far out of alignment, those with more pay less in proportion of those holding less.... I have a mate who is renting a big place in a park in Liverpool. The place must have been derelict in 91 so is on a really low rate. Using some arbitrary date is stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Peter Hun said: Stamp duty is 10%, and its killing the market for houses in London. £60K stamp duty for a house? people who buy million pound houses don't have money like that. Its bonkers and also hilarious. They must have made money via growing equity to enable them to purchase a plus million home.... not a first time purchase home.... Free equity gained just through holding it, surely society via tax would want to take a bit back.... a renter makes nothing paying rent, some paying rents for many years whilst others are making money just by sitting on it... Only fair would you not say? Owning a home/s is not winning the lottery. Edited August 26, 2018 by winkie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 6 hours ago, Peter Hun said: Stamp duty is 10%, and its killing the market for houses in London. £60K stamp duty for a house? people who buy million pound houses don't have money like that. Its bonkers and also hilarious. Owners of expensive London property only have themselves to blame. They were perfectly happy when the newspapers rolled out the 'asset rich cash poor elderly widow' argument against Cable and Miliband's mansion taxes that would have been collected monthly, so instead Osborne introduced new SDLT rates that wouldn't touch the apocryphal widow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest_northshore Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 On 25/08/2018 at 12:29, dugsbody said: We're not going to live in the UK forever (although anything could change) but we've got at least another 5-10 years here. I'd like to move to a bigger house but in London that means handing an immediate £25k+ sunk cost. It makes me reluctant to move because this cost is incurred every time you do. Very annoying. A land tax would be better, as long as they offered a sticky tax credit for people who'd paid the stamp duty lump sum within the last X years, proportional to what you paid and tapering off. Agree it's not optimally efficient but right now it's one of the few taxes we have on land rather than on working and income. Given that SDLT tax incidence falls on the owner, I don't see how a tax credit could be justified when the SDLT cost would otherwise just have been added to selling price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtickle Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 Please god, no more tax credits. It's bad enough we have the despicable Child Tax Credit. The country needs tax, not bloody discounts handed out like sweeties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugsbody Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 (edited) Ok, let us not call it a tax credit. Call it something else. The point is, you need to convince people like me that the lump sum I paid five/six years ago (and for some much more recently) is just gone and now I should start paying again. I think it is fair that people who have paid stamp duty in the last 10 years (as an example) would receive a rebate toward the next few years of LVT, such that everyone ends up neutral. Not looking for hand-outs, merely to be fair. I don't buy the argument that I "gain" because the remove stamp duty would be added to the price of the house. Firstly because it is the same argument for pro HPI, which we all agree is rubbish since the next bigger house I buy will be even more expensive. Secondly, part of the point of LVT is to moderate house prices, so I'm not sure they would increase. I'd hope the opposite, certainly at the higher end. In any case, the real point is to convince everyone to vote for a LVT you're going to have to add something in so that people who have recently paid stamp duty feel they're being treated fairly and vote for the proposal. Edited August 27, 2018 by dugsbody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtickle Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 The people wouldn't be voting for the proposal though. I can't remember any tax change which was tied to a referendum. The government needs the money, they change the law and start collecting the tax. Simple as that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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