Rent rise or move out

[FedupTeddiBear]

If you deposit is not held in a protection scheme, you may be able to make some money out of your LL. He would also have trouble evicting you if he decided to do so.

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/tenancy_deposits/tenancy_deposit_protection_rules

If this is the case, I would also question whether he has declared his rental income to HMRC, which would mean further trouble for him - might be worth investigating this too.

Finally, he should definitely not be charging full market rent if the housing he provides is substandard.

It looks to me as though you have plenty of ammunition to either avoid the rent increase or to get him into some costly trouble.

Edited August 22, 2018 by FedupTeddiBear

[mat109]

Without a protected deposit (assuming there is a deposit) any S21 will fail. Keep this in your back pocket. 

Say no to the rent rise, point out comparables, and if you're moving out in a few months you can afford to make him sad. 

Best thing to say is 'we wish to continue, but do not believe a rent rise is justified at this time and would prefer a periodic tenancy'. Periodic is better because there is no trigger (eg. renewal). 

If he evicts, any S21 will fail in court. He'll have to refund it first and start from scratch (including notice period)

See this for many other reasons why an S21 can fail:

https://nearlylegal.co.uk/section-21-flowchart/

Is there a gas safety cert? Without one issued at renewal, he can never evict:

https://www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/2018/02/13/bad-news-landlords-section-21-gas-safety-certificates/

Edited August 22, 2018 by mat109

[thewig]

Putting my business head on for a second and parking all this human rights Mumbo jumbo, this is a simple equation:

 profit equals rental income minus costs

 

now if profit needs to go up for whatever reason as a businessman I’ve got two choices, cut costs or just bang the rents up

 

Now given if I’m a Smart businessman I’ve already cut non essential costs  (boilers electrics gas whatever all the health and safety nonsense) back to the BONE then where exactly is my PROFIT going to come from if not the ungrateful scumbag of a “customer” aka my tenants? 

 

Suck it up or find another product pal is what I say

[Mossie]

+1 Sausage.  BTL and BTLers.  The damage that is done in BTL people-farming.

5 hours ago, Captain Kirk said:

I'm not saying you are. It is just you didn't give us the full story in your original post.

It sounds like your landlord doesn't have a leg to stand on so please let us know the outcome.

It's just a lot easier to post about tenant-power than for some tenants to tenant to do it.   Yes, seemingly some power to me power to claim about deposit protection at some point. 

Doesn't solve the BTLer and their eagerness to bump the rent up some... was it £75pm?

Even with some really difficult problems and disrepair, some tenants feel have to put up with them, not cause a fuss, self-repair where possible.   Settled.  Children at school.   Some tenants don't want to feel like causing trouble by escalating it to force the BTLer to spend and repair.

Not wanting to be in a situation where BTL landlord feels grudge at having been forced to do what they didn't want to do, and perhaps cause you problems or later be S21'd.  There's not much you can do when got a landlord who doesn't really care.  Not much you can do after moving in and find you have a BTLer who is always seeking to up the rent.   

Family went through months of damp issues with their rental house.  With letters and photos submitted about main problem.  They are not plumbers.  They recently moved to a new rental in the end.

 

I sent them some good inf (below) but still they won't make a claim.  They don't want any trouble with the BTLer and perhaps not sure of reaction.  It also means more of them 'thinking on what happened' when they do not want to stew in negative, don't want to file claims and work out overall damage they think they should claim for, but just have more moments of feeling better with their young family.  At least for now.  HPI, BTL all around.  No idea what new landlord will end up being like.  Maybe another who will be looking at rent-hikes down the line.

Quote

 

Housing disrepair: check if you can claim compensation
You can ask your landlord to pay you compensation if disrepair caused damage to your health or your belongings.

When you can claim compensation
You can take legal action to claim compensation during your tenancy or after it ends.

You have up to 6 years (or 3 years for a personal injury claim), starting from the time your landlord should have carried out the repair.

If you start your claim during your tenancy, you can also ask the court to order your landlord to do repair work.

You can't take legal action for compensation unless you report the repair problem to your landlord during your tenancy.

(continues) https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/housing_disrepair_check_if_you_can_claim_compensation

Shelter Last Updated 27 Apr 2018

 

 

[Bruce Banner]

13 minutes ago, thewig said:

Putting my business head on for a second and parking all this human rights Mumbo jumbo, this is a simple equation:

 profit equals rental income minus costs

 

now if profit needs to go up for whatever reason as a businessman I’ve got two choices, cut costs or just bang the rents up

 

Now given if I’m a Smart businessman I’ve already cut non essential costs  (boilers electrics gas whatever all the health and safety nonsense) back to the BONE then where exactly is my PROFIT going to come from if not the ungrateful scumbag of a “customer” aka my tenants? 

 

Suck it up or find another product pal is what I say

If any agent said that to me I would do anything in my power (and of course within the law) to damage their business and their reputation.

[Kurt Barlow]

Invite another agent round on the basis the place is yours but you needing to move for work want to rent it out quickly

Thats a good way of getting a realistic valuation and wasting another agents time

[user not found]

Ok... Chronology...

Dec 2010... Return from Oz, staying at in-laws, wife few weeks pregnant. Stuff in storage.

Jan 2011... Moved into house A. Cheap rent. No agency fees, low rent. 

Spring 2013... Landlords evict us at end of tenancy, wife few weeks pregnant with second child.

Late spring 2013 ... Just as last day in property approaches, landlords tell us their other property B now vacant. 3 doors up the road. We accept. Gone from end of terrace with GCH to mid terrace with poor electric heating 

Early 2014... Landlords handover the reins to their son. Nice chap, a business man, but can be reasoned with.

Autumn 2018... Rent rise suggested. I'm keeping in my back pocket the lack of deposit protection. No inventory works for me as we've made a few low key improvements. E.g got rid of a palm tree and a fake fireplace. I'm not worried about losing deposit... As in I'm sure we'll get it back.

All through this (2011 to now) I've had 2 new births, 2 x bereavement, an ongoing court case, multiple risks of redundancy....

So I have to weigh up rent rise v hassle/agency fees. It's not a straightforward decision.

My plan... Keep talking to landlord about repairs for as long as poss. Unless he realises he'll struggle to rent this without full refurb, Tell him to evict us. Let that play through until the non protected deposit bites him on the bum. Should see us through to spring.

 

 

[Captain Kirk]

2 hours ago, Mossie said:

It's just a lot easier to post about tenant-power than for some tenants to tenant to do it.   Yes, seemingly some power to me power to claim about deposit protection at some point...

Although I've never had to deal with a rent rise, I have had to deal twice with getting my deposit back.

The first time, the landlord tried to claim I'd damaged a window frame but it was like it when I moved in. I said I would take it to the small claims court (this was before the deposit scheme came out). He eventually refunded the deposit. What really annoyed me was that he definitely knew the window had been like it for years.

The second time, the agent claimed some light shades were missing. The place was meant to be unfurnished and I thought they were the previous tenants and threw them out. They were practically worthless but I did come to an agreement, but the idiot agent tried to claim they had sentimental value. As if the landlord would leave sentimental items in an unfurnished let.

So it's not about forum bravado; you have to deal with these things when you rent. My other rentals have gone smoothly, although I've had to be proactive in getting things fixed.

Edited August 22, 2018 by Captain Kirk

[Kurt Barlow]

1 hour ago, Sausage said:

Ok... Chronology...

Dec 2010... Return from Oz, staying at in-laws, wife few weeks pregnant. Stuff in storage.

Jan 2011... Moved into house A. Cheap rent. No agency fees, low rent. 

Spring 2013... Landlords evict us at end of tenancy, wife few weeks pregnant with second child.

Late spring 2013 ... Just as last day in property approaches, landlords tell us their other property B now vacant. 3 doors up the road. We accept. Gone from end of terrace with GCH to mid terrace with poor electric heating 

Early 2014... Landlords handover the reins to their son. Nice chap, a business man, but can be reasoned with.

Autumn 2018... Rent rise suggested. I'm keeping in my back pocket the lack of deposit protection. No inventory works for me as we've made a few low key improvements. E.g got rid of a palm tree and a fake fireplace. I'm not worried about losing deposit... As in I'm sure we'll get it back.

All through this (2011 to now) I've had 2 new births, 2 x bereavement, an ongoing court case, multiple risks of redundancy....

So I have to weigh up rent rise v hassle/agency fees. It's not a straightforward decision.

My plan... Keep talking to landlord about repairs for as long as poss. Unless he realises he'll struggle to rent this without full refurb, Tell him to evict us. Let that play through until the non protected deposit bites him on the bum. Should see us through to spring.

 

 

Or agree to a small rise subject to getting the deposit in the DPS. When he inevitably tries to steal that off you , you will have a much better chance of getting it back. 

My former landlord tried to stiff us for 780 earlier this year. I appealed to the DPS and the ***** got zilch. 

[FedupTeddiBear]

1 hour ago, Captain Kirk said:

Although I've never had to deal with a rent rise, I have had to deal twice with getting my deposit back.

The first time, the landlord tried to claim I'd damaged a window frame but it was like it when I moved in. I said I would take it to the small claims court (this was before the deposit scheme came out). He eventually refunded the deposit. What really annoyed me was that he definitely knew the window had been like it for years.

The second time, the agent claimed some light shades were missing. The place was meant to be unfurnished and I thought they were the previous tenants and threw them out. They were practically worthless but I did come to an agreement, but the idiot agent tried to claim they had sentimental value. As if the landlord would leave sentimental items in an unfurnished let.

So it's not about forum bravado; you have to deal with these things when you rent. My other rentals have gone smoothly, although I've had to be proactive in getting things fixed.

This has happened to several people I know. For that reason we have kept everything - there is a paper inventory with notes about the tiniest holes in the carpet next to the fireplace, the grubby walls in the bathroom, broken glass lying around in the garden, etc. Last time they renewed the rental agreement they seemed to have no record of it so I don't think they realise we still have it. We have lived here for several years and have done small things to make it look vastly better than before. But we have also kept ALL of the detritus that was lying around when we moved in including broken 70s lampshades, moldy blinds, a disgustingly dirty table with one leg hanging off, faded and perished curtains, a broken ornament - EVERYTHING. In the loft. Just in case they try it on when we move out. 

[Ah-so]

5 hours ago, Kurt Barlow said:

Or agree to a small rise subject to getting the deposit in the DPS. When he inevitably tries to steal that off you , you will have a much better chance of getting it back. 

My former landlord tried to stiff us for 780 earlier this year. I appealed to the DPS and the ***** got zilch. 

You don't want it in the DPS. If a landlord fails to protect a deposit, the full deposit must be returned at the end of the tenancy and compensation of a minimum of one times the original deposit and up to three times depending upon how egregious the landlord has been. 

This is an excellent bargaining chip for you to use and it is very hard to evict you.

Actually - do get it put in the DPS because as it was late you are still entitled to most of the above benefits as well as having it protected. 

You can wield it like a sword of Damacles to keep him sweet and then still claim the compensation at the end.

[user not found]

18 minutes ago, Ah-so said:

You don't want it in the DPS. If a landlord fails to protect a deposit, the full deposit must be returned at the end of the tenancy and compensation of a minimum of one times the original deposit and up to three times depending upon how egregious the landlord has been. 

This is an excellent bargaining chip for you to use and it is very hard to evict you.

Actually - do get it put in the DPS because as it was late you are still entitled to most of the above benefits as well as having it protected. 

You can wield it like a sword of Damacles to keep him sweet and then still claim the compensation at the end.

What hoops would I have to jump through to get the compensation agreed to? Then actually paid up? Sounds nice in principle though...

[hpcnnh]

It is quite a difficult legal process to do yourself but there are "no win no fee" lawyers who will do it for you and take a cut of the winnings.

You can make a claim up to 6 years after the date by which the deposit should have been protected.

Nothing the landlord can do now can prevent you from being successful although it may reduce the amount of the award if he protects it now.

In any case you are guaranteed a minimum of 1 x deposit (max 3 x) in addition to getting the deposit back.
 

[ccc]

I know it's not directly on topic but I need to say this again. 

When you move in anywhere take pictures of ANY thing wrong. To the tiniest little thing. Doesn't matter. Then email them for a date stamp. 

If the LL subsequently tries to take any deposit off ? Simply send them the 149 pictures and tell them they have zero - yes zero chance.  So stop wasting their time and yours. They will. 

Unless you have actually demolished half the building or something. 

[Ah-so]

2 hours ago, hpcnnh said:

It is quite a difficult legal process to do yourself but there are "no win no fee" lawyers who will do it for you and take a cut of the winnings.

You can make a claim up to 6 years after the date by which the deposit should have been protected.

Nothing the landlord can do now can prevent you from being successful although it may reduce the amount of the award if he protects it now.

In any case you are guaranteed a minimum of 1 x deposit (max 3 x) in addition to getting the deposit back.
 

Thanks. I don't know the process to be able to help sausage, but the very threat of it alone should make the landlord cooperative and less likely to push ahead with a rent rise or eviction. 

If the landlord does attempt a  no-fault eviction that would very probably increase the amount of compensation. 

[FedupTeddiBear]

5 hours ago, Sausage said:

What hoops would I have to jump through to get the compensation agreed to? Then actually paid up? Sounds nice in principle though...

Getting in touch with shelter is probably your best bet to get the correct info about what to do about all of this.

[Bradbury Robinson]

3 hours ago, ccc said:

When you move in anywhere take pictures of ANY thing wrong. To the tiniest little thing. Doesn't matter. Then email them for a date stamp. 

Having been a regular reader of this forum for a while I followed this advice when we moved into a place in 2008. It was nothing major, just a few small issues like a cracked pain of glass, chipped mirror in the bathroom, broken bit of wood trim, etc. I called the landlord to discuss them all but she said she knows what is wrong and not to worry. So I kept all of the pictures and just sent an email to confirm what we had discussed.

When we came to move out the problems were still there plus a few other minor things that had happened during our tenancy, so we were fully expecting a bit of negotiation on the deposit and a few weeks of haggling. The only thing that got raised was a missing set of net curtains from one window, they only covered the lower half of the window and looked like they were about ten years old. 

When you hear the problems that other people have with renting she actually didn't seem too bad. She was happy taking the money and leaving us to it, the few bigger issues we had she dealt with in reasonable time.

[ccc]

15 minutes ago, Bradbury Robinson said:

Having been a regular reader of this forum for a while I followed this advice when we moved into a place in 2008. It was nothing major, just a few small issues like a cracked pain of glass, chipped mirror in the bathroom, broken bit of wood trim, etc. I called the landlord to discuss them all but she said she knows what is wrong and not to worry. So I kept all of the pictures and just sent an email to confirm what we had discussed.

When we came to move out the problems were still there plus a few other minor things that had happened during our tenancy, so we were fully expecting a bit of negotiation on the deposit and a few weeks of haggling. The only thing that got raised was a missing set of net curtains from one window, they only covered the lower half of the window and looked like they were about ten years old. 

When you hear the problems that other people have with renting she actually didn't seem too bad. She was happy taking the money and leaving us to it, the few bigger issues we had she dealt with in reasonable time.

Seems like a decent Landlord. There must be a few out there. The one I have just now seems pretty decent as well to be fair. Even the agency isn't too shabby.

Will wait till I move out to conclude though.

Even something like cleaning the windows. They weren't clean when I moved in and I have pictures - so if they try to get me to do that then - no chance pal !!

[Mossie]

18 hours ago, Captain Kirk said:

Although I've never had to deal with a rent rise, I have had to deal twice with getting my deposit back.

The first time, the landlord tried to claim I'd damaged a window frame but it was like it when I moved in. I said I would take it to the small claims court (this was before the deposit scheme came out). He eventually refunded the deposit. What really annoyed me was that he definitely knew the window had been like it for years.

The second time, the agent claimed some light shades were missing. The place was meant to be unfurnished and I thought they were the previous tenants and threw them out. They were practically worthless but I did come to an agreement, but the idiot agent tried to claim they had sentimental value. As if the landlord would leave sentimental items in an unfurnished let.

So it's not about forum bravado; you have to deal with these things when you rent. My other rentals have gone smoothly, although I've had to be proactive in getting things fixed.

There's a brilliant thread here where Kibuk won compensation.  I haven't read it for some time but I learned a lot from it.

Wasn't claiming it was about 'forum-bravado'.   Just empathy for the position Sausage is in as a tenant, and the jump rent rise the BTLer wants to impose.   I know a BTLer who got a tenant in straight away for £50pm when tenant hoped they would back down.  Tenant power isn't that easy when you're actually in such a situation of a BTLer seeking their 'more money' rent-rise.

This BTLer came around seeking more money, to a renting HPCer.

Quote

8YI - Posted 05 August 2014 - 12:49 PM

For the past 2 years, I have seen people continue to be bailed out for their balls out risk-taking, mocked for my risk aversion to the extent that I was openly mocked by BTLers as a poor man from a poor family* who do not understand what it takes to become rich (and by 'what it takes to become rich' they meant buy as much property as highly leveraged as you can), seen myself priced out of a market where houses are bought for cash and then rented out the day after completion at sub 3.5% yields (these are 3% stamp duty properties too), seen people pay more in stamp duty than I paid in rent for 3 years who are now sitting on £150k+ of 'profit' and lastly have a landlord who despite buying the house I live in for under £60,000 in the late 90s contacts me to say that he needs to show a rental income of £800+pm (way above what I'm paying) so that he can re-mortgage onto a better deal.

You do the math, I'd guess current value is around £240-250k but anything is possible in this market but not all early market entrants are sitting pretty and this sort of BTL activity has pushed up rental prices in the area to upwards of £1000pcm for a small family home and garden.

And the other post that went with it was something about the BTLer buying the house in 2001.. ah actually it's already in the post.  BTLer bought in late-90s for under £60,000 and clearly mewed it out, for either lifestyle or to buy moar houses to rent out.  Active BTLism their choice.  

BTL landlords seeking rent-rise, not great rental properties, often with some disrepair and not big on making improvements.  With Sausage having a young family and messed around so much by BTLers (who do think - think very much about themselves), and with  Sausage having a full and busy working life of his own, trying to live by real earnings and income.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Mossie