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Another raffle - We're not giving it away.

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http://www.itv.com/news/2018-08-09/couple-offer-up-chance-to-win-luxury-six-bedroom-mansion-in-raffle/

Couple offer up chance to win luxury six-bedroom mansion in raffle

A aerial view of Dancers Hill House near Barnet, north London - worth £5.25 million.
A aerial view of Dancers Hill House near Barnet, north London - worth £5.25 million. Credit: PA

A couple have decided to raffle off their luxury six-bedroom mansion worth more than £5.25 million after failing to sell it in nine months.

Dancers Hill House is a Georgian grade II listed property which is spread across more than 7,500 square foot of land on the edge of north London.

It features six bedrooms and bathrooms, two lounges, a cinema room, a gym, a wine room, plus four acres of grounds, including a one and a half acre lake stocked with more than 2,000 fish.

Current owners Nigel and Melanie Walsh said a difficult property market, Brexit and Stamp Duty were hurdles to achieving a sale, so after nine months decided to adopt a creative approach.

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From the F.A.Q

What happens if not enough tickets are sold?
If the target value as stated in the terms and conditions is not met by the competition deadline, the competition promoter reserves the right to substitute the prize with a cash alternative which will be equal to the total amount of payments received minus reasonable administrative costs, not to exceed 25% of net payments received.

*************************

How can this possibly be legal? Run a raffle, knowing you won't sell enough tickets, and then keep up to 25% of the money.

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Just to add to the above, here's some more from the T&Cs/FAQ's:

*******************

VALUATION (Owner’s Valuation) £5,250,000.

Minimum number of paid entries 600,000.

Should the Competition fail to succeed then 75% of the total held will be The Alternative Prize.

*****************

So if they don't sell 600,00 tickets, which totals £7.5m, (Presumably this is their definition of "failing to succeed" as above) then they keep 25% of all ticket sales, which could be something like £1.8m.

They either end up with at least £7.5m for a house that they themselves value at £2.25m less than that, or they make £3 for every single ticket they sell, having put in not more effort than a few quid for a website and a bit in legal fees.

Little short of outrageous IMHO.

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29 minutes ago, GeneCernan said:

Just to add to the above, here's some more from the T&Cs/FAQ's:

*******************

VALUATION (Owner’s Valuation) £5,250,000.

Minimum number of paid entries 600,000.

Should the Competition fail to succeed then 75% of the total held will be The Alternative Prize.

*****************

So if they don't sell 600,00 tickets, which totals £7.5m, (Presumably this is their definition of "failing to succeed" as above) then they keep 25% of all ticket sales, which could be something like £1.8m.

They either end up with at least £7.5m for a house that they themselves value at £2.25m less than that, or they make £3 for every single ticket they sell, having put in not more effort than a few quid for a website and a bit in legal fees.

Little short of outrageous IMHO.

Well spotted, absolutely disgraceful. 

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Theyve been [issing around a tthe gaming comm. for too long on these.

Simple rule - 12 months to sell tickets then the raffle takes place no matter how many tickets are sold.

 

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'so after nine months decided to adopt a creative approach'.

 

So 'creative' about 76 other people have already tried it...

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1 hour ago, spyguy said:

Theyve been [issing around a tthe gaming comm. for too long on these.

Simple rule - 12 months to sell tickets then the raffle takes place no matter how many tickets are sold.

 

That only works when there is no bank mortgage 🤓

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Self evidently it is not worth £5.25....why don't they auction it to find the market value?

I agree with posters above that this is a scam....I thought you needed a licence to run a lottery.? Perhaps the state can do something useful and clamp down on this nonsense.

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10 hours ago, Wayward said:

Self evidently it is not worth £5.25....why don't they auction it to find the market value?

I agree with posters above that this is a scam....I thought you needed a licence to run a lottery.? Perhaps the state can do something useful and clamp down on this nonsense.

Auction- that’s crazy talk. They won’t get what it’s ‘worth’ then !  :)

There’s a free entry option (i understand that’s part of the legal setup). Anyway that option makes it even less likely to sell enough tickets. 

 

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17 hours ago, GeneCernan said:

Just to add to the above, here's some more from the T&Cs/FAQ's:

*******************

VALUATION (Owner’s Valuation) £5,250,000.

Minimum number of paid entries 600,000.

Should the Competition fail to succeed then 75% of the total held will be The Alternative Prize.

*****************

So if they don't sell 600,00 tickets, which totals £7.5m, (Presumably this is their definition of "failing to succeed" as above) then they keep 25% of all ticket sales, which could be something like £1.8m.

They either end up with at least £7.5m for a house that they themselves value at £2.25m less than that, or they make £3 for every single ticket they sell, having put in not more effort than a few quid for a website and a bit in legal fees.

Little short of outrageous IMHO.

So what does that workout at, 1 in every 80 adults in England needs to buy a ticket?, good luck with that

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3 hours ago, inbruges said:

So what does that workout at, 1 in every 80 adults in England needs to buy a ticket?, good luck with that

Won't happen of course, they'll probably sell 100,000 at best, making a nice little £300k less legal costs, website costs and a bit of admin costs. Call it £295k with a whole load of free publicity for their house included.

Nice work if you can get it, which of course the wealthy always can.

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45 minutes ago, GeneCernan said:

Won't happen of course, they'll probably sell 100,000 at best, making a nice little £300k less legal costs, website costs and a bit of admin costs. Call it £295k with a whole load of free publicity for their house included.

Nice work if you can get it, which of course the wealthy always can.

No they wont make £295k, how can they if they remove the prize, they will lose money

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8 minutes ago, inbruges said:

No they wont make £295k, how can they if they remove the prize, they will lose money

Look at the rules I posted above. If they sell fewer than 600,000 tickets then that would certainly constitute "failing to succeed" as defined in those rules.

If that happens then the prize reverts to a cash prize, of 75% of the total takings. In other words, they keep 25% of the total take if the sales of tickets do not reach 600,000 (£7.5m in ticket sales).

25% of each ticket sale is £3.00, so either they end up with £7.5m for their house (less costs which I suspect are £5k tops), or they just pocket £3.00 from every ticket sale.

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7 hours ago, inbruges said:

So what does that workout at, 1 in every 80 adults in England needs to buy a ticket?, good luck with that

Wouldn't take it off their hands even if they paid me.;)

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I visualise myself in a home that is 1/15th the value of that and being far happier as I am sure many others would be as well. I am personally a big fan of the capitalist system, you work hard you live well. This is just more evidence that wealth has gone too far in one direction and shows the inequality, and to me personally I don't want all that much out of life, and yet the system still won't let me have it.

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On 10/08/2018 at 13:39, GeneCernan said:

How can this possibly be legal? Run a raffle, knowing you won't sell enough tickets, and then keep up to 25% of the money.

Its not legal, they are committing a criminal offence, although there are ways to do it.

 

http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/for-the-public/Fundraising-and-promotions/Advertising-and-promoting.aspx

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How well do these raffles tend to do? I might be wrong, but I thought the tickets were usually £1 or at most £5, and the properties were normally in the £500k-£1m range. I don't know if many people are interested in these raffles at all, but a brief reflection should be enough to realise that a typical person could not afford to keep a property like that even if they won it. They would soon run into difficulties and so would have to sell.

Unless they manage to sell a lot of tickets, the property is quite likely to lose more value over the course of a year. I think they'd be better off just keeping it on the market and having a hefty reduction or two.

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On ‎10‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 13:39, GeneCernan said:

From the F.A.Q

What happens if not enough tickets are sold?
If the target value as stated in the terms and conditions is not met by the competition deadline, the competition promoter reserves the right to substitute the prize with a cash alternative which will be equal to the total amount of payments received minus reasonable administrative costs, not to exceed 25% of net payments received.

*************************

How can this possibly be legal? Run a raffle, knowing you won't sell enough tickets, and then keep up to 25% of the money.

Perhaps they will actually deduct reasonable administrative costs, subject to a maximum of 25% of payment received.

If they sell a single ticket, this person will receive a prize of £10.13 and the owners will have lost money, assuming their costs exceeded £3.37.

If they sell 5,000 tickets, then they will only pay the 75% minimum prize if their administrative costs are greater than or equal to £16,875. I have no idea what expenses they are likely to incur. Let's say they come to £3,375. Then the prize would be 95%.

I don't know how much scrutiny they will face, but if they do sell a fair amount of tickets, I'm not sure they will get away with keeping 25%.

Still, it amounts to an interest free loan for them.

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1 hour ago, Peter Hun said:

One  key point is they cannot advertise the lottery, So itv.com and Bruce Banner  are doing that job 

Do we know that Bruce Banner isn't Nigel or Melanie Walsh?

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