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Birth rate drops due to austerity

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1 hour ago, mynamehere said:

How can blame them, it's a crappy and thankless job. 

And so are 99 percent of jobs. Which are also compounded by being unrewarding

Edited by chronyx

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22 minutes ago, chronyx said:

And so are 99 percent of jobs. Which are also compounded by being unrewarding

Maybe so, but a steadily increasing number of women, prefer those unrewarding jobs to parenting.

It's not about benefits etc either. Higher income women are showing this trend the most. They have the freedom to choose, and are choosing other work over kids.

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2 hours ago, mynamehere said:

Maybe so, but a steadily increasing number of women, prefer those unrewarding jobs to parenting.

It's not about benefits etc either. Higher income women are showing this trend the most. They have the freedom to choose, and are choosing other work over kids.

I'm sure their cats will love them

Funny how I never see powerful strong independent anything-you-can-do-I-can-do-better wimmin in the trades or on building sites with me.

Just doing nice comfy office work

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7 minutes ago, chronyx said:

I'm sure their cats will love them

Funny how I never see powerful strong independent anything-you-can-do-I-can-do-better wimmin in the trades or on building sites with me.

Just doing nice comfy office work

 

1. Lower birth rate doesn't mean 0 children. Replacement birthrate is 2.1 Lots of people choosing to have just one kid will lower the birth rate significantly. 

2. Parenting isn't the only job of value to a healthy society. I'm sure the childfree doctors, teachers and scientists who do great work find their cats of great comfort when they retire at 50. 

3. I'm sure those well educated, high income, independent women, are happy to let the men keep the trade and building jobs.

 

 

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Well we're in off-topic, but really I think this is on-topic. Could house prices be the biggest reason? Hard to think of having kids living in a room in a shared house, or a small 2 bedroom place. Like others have mentioned, the benefit changes have removed a prop from families 3 or more children meaning the full financial impact is felt. Child Benefit is also being withdrawn from higher earners, and yes, it does make a difference when you're only just over the threshold. University debt has trebled recently, that's another section of society who you'd ideally want to be having kids who will find it harder (not impossible) to afford.

There's lots of wealth to be passed down through inheritance of course, but many people in their late 30's have parents still going strong, receiving a windfall (and it may not happen) in your 50s is too late for that to help population wise.

 

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4 minutes ago, mynamehere said:

 

1. Lower birth rate doesn't mean 0 children. Replacement birthrate is 2.1 Lots of people choosing to have just one kid will lower the birth rate significantly. 

2. Parenting isn't the only job of value to a healthy society. I'm sure the childfree doctors, teachers and scientists who do great work find their cats of great comfort when they retire at 50. 

3. I'm sure those well educated, high income, independent women, are happy to let the men keep the trade and building jobs.

 

 

:lol: Wow, such insight.  I'm sure they are happy, they get the cream and then still cry about wage gaps and glass ceilings - whilst in earlier times, men would have done those jobs too and if they weren't happy, tried to improve themselves rather than whine about discrimination.  

Keep fighting the good fight, careerwymyn. The Corporation loves you.  

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/suicide-rate-among-young-women-soars-as-national-rates-hit-20-year-low-a8117021.html

https://www.health.com/condition/depression/women-suicide-rates

Please define healthy society as I would flip your quote there and say that balanced, effective co-parenting is the only job that can create and maintain a safe, prosperous, healthy society.   Everything else is built on that, and I can't help but think you're putting the cart before the horse

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I'm picture

10 minutes ago, chronyx said:

 

Please define healthy society as I would flip your quote there and say that balanced, effective co-parenting is the only job that can create and maintain a safe, prosperous, healthy society.   Everything else is built on that, and I can't help but think you're putting the cart before the horse

 

Parenting is clearly the only job that can create a society, yes of course. But it's not the only job that is vital to maintaining it. 

 

 

20 minutes ago, Save me from the madness! said:

Well we're in off-topic, but really I think this is on-topic. Could house prices be the biggest reason? Hard to think of having kids living in a room in a shared house, or a small 2 bedroom place.

 

I think this is true. But it's also true that birth rate continues to drop as income increases.  High birth rate is more positively correlated with low incomes. 

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27 minutes ago, mynamehere said:

I'm picture

 

Parenting is clearly the only job that can create a society, yes of course. But it's not the only job that is vital to maintaining it. 

Without getting to 'out there' though, hospitals aren't society.  Neither are schools, iPhones, the stock market, houses, or Starbucks.

People are society, and shitty people make a shitty society.  (And a healthy society deals with shitty people in a fair way - not cruel and unusual, but not 'laissez-faire feelz based justice for some, and for others lock 'em up and throw away the key' way have now)

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12 minutes ago, chronyx said:

Without getting to 'out there' though, hospitals aren't society. 

Yeah, a Hospital isn't, but a doctor is,  part of a healthy society.

So do you mean, that we have to parent well, otherwise no one will grow up to be doctors?

Sure,  of course true, but doesn't really contradict  the general point I was trying to make. Just very simply, that more women are choosing to other jobs instead. Rightly or wrongly.  I think we probably have the numbers to allow them that luxury, if they so choose.

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It's not like it is a binary decision. "Everyone be a parent" vs "Extinction" .

Society benefits from having a variety of citizens. Not every bee in the hive can or even should create new bees. Ants too have lots of roles. Not all ants are parental, but they are vital for that society. 

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4 minutes ago, mynamehere said:

Yeah, a Hospital isn't, but a doctor is,  part of a healthy society.

So do you mean, that we have to parent well, otherwise no one will grow up to be doctors?

Sure,  of course true, but doesn't really contradict  the general point I was trying to make. Just very simply, that more women are choosing to other jobs instead. Rightly or wrongly.  I think we probably have the numbers to allow them that luxury, if they so choose.

I suppose you could say, parent well to allow people to reach their full potential.  Some people aren't cut out to be doctors (Me, for example)

OK, if women want to work that's fine and I have no problem with that. However they should be accepted on merit - equality of opportunity, not outcome.  And don't suddenly decide at 35 - 40 you want kids, then scream "WHERE HAVE ALL THE GOOD MEN GONE?!".  We're still here, but like I said, we don't you anymore, so have fun.

We have the numbers, but quantity vs quality as the old saying goes.  And numbers never lie, but they can tell whopping mis-truths. :lol:

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3 minutes ago, mynamehere said:

It's not like it is a binary decision. "Everyone be a parent" vs "Extinction" .

Society benefits from having a variety of citizens. Not every bee in the hive can or even should create new bees. Ants too have lots of roles. Not all ants are parental, but they are vital for that society. 

Bees are matriarchal, the ideal society according to some.  I have no intention of being a drone for some queen bee.

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On 07/08/2018 at 00:01, dances with sheeple said:

 

Then they have one and it is utter desperation to get back on the drinking/party scene, the amount of birds in their early to mid 30`s you see walking about with kids or babies in tow who look like their face has just been slapped with a wet kipper dipped in piss is pretty high IMO, higher than the birth rate anyway  :lol: I don`t think mentioning that you are desperate to have kids is a good angle to take with women you want relationships with though, that is going to have them running for the hills IMO, too much too soon, far too smothering for them, but most of them will want kids at a genetic level, but many won`t enjoy the experience, not in the way it is sold by media and advertisers anyway. IMO of course.

I'm not desperate to have kids, but since becoming an Uncle a few years ago I've come to realize that I definitely want kids at some point in the next 5 or 10 years. There's no rush, I just have to know that the bird wants them at some point too. There's a guy I meet up with from time to time that I used to work with who never had any discussions about kids with his missus, assuming she wanted them at some point too. They're in their late 30's now and he really wants kids but she doesn't. Seems to be the core of all their fights these days. I don't want to end up like that. I think it's best to know your partners thoughts on these things before you get too invested or else you could end up wasting some of the most important years of your life. This is especially important for women given that their fertility goes downhill after 30. Us blokes are a lot luckier in that regard.

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As a bloke, I'd say the ability to get someone pregnant when your mid 40s onwards might be re-assuring, but having highly energetic primary school kids when your in your 50s is something to think carefully about. Obviously, there are many times where life just doesn't go the way you would like it too and it is far better to wait then have a child with someone you're not suitable with. I guess my note of caution is if you want a child put the effort in to find the right person, don't ease off thinking you've got time on your hands and you'll pick it up later. I have many friends who say they'd like to be in a relationship but put no effort into finding a girl and the years are turning into decades now they have been in this situation.

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On 08/08/2018 at 15:14, Renewed Investor said:

I'm not desperate to have kids, but since becoming an Uncle a few years ago I've come to realize that I definitely want kids at some point in the next 5 or 10 years. There's no rush, I just have to know that the bird wants them at some point too. There's a guy I meet up with from time to time that I used to work with who never had any discussions about kids with his missus, assuming she wanted them at some point too. They're in their late 30's now and he really wants kids but she doesn't. Seems to be the core of all their fights these days. I don't want to end up like that. I think it's best to know your partners thoughts on these things before you get too invested or else you could end up wasting some of the most important years of your life. This is especially important for women given that their fertility goes downhill after 30. Us blokes are a lot luckier in that regard.

 

21 hours ago, Save me from the madness! said:

As a bloke, I'd say the ability to get someone pregnant when your mid 40s onwards might be re-assuring, but having highly energetic primary school kids when your in your 50s is something to think carefully about. Obviously, there are many times where life just doesn't go the way you would like it too and it is far better to wait then have a child with someone you're not suitable with. I guess my note of caution is if you want a child put the effort in to find the right person, don't ease off thinking you've got time on your hands and you'll pick it up later. I have many friends who say they'd like to be in a relationship but put no effort into finding a girl and the years are turning into decades now they have been in this situation.

I was married at 35 (been together previous two years), a few years later I was sat in a barbers shop, there was a woman who was about the same age as me with her brood, they were talking about kids and she said that she wouldn't be having any more as she has done her bit for society, the thought ran across my mind, what if she got divorced and met someone else would her attitude change? , I had married someone who was quite selfish, said she wanted children, she was interested in other peoples kids but kept up the not enough money, need a bigger house. Her mother actually nailed it on the head, by saying "just get and do it or you never will!"

At 40½ I found myself divorced, thrust into somewhere I didn't really want to be, started dating and from the "what do you want conversations" it soon becomes apparent that the majority of women on the dating circuit had kids and didn't want any more, there was one that said she would if she met the right person but she went off with someone else and despite having five kids already (they were in their teens mostly) it turned out she couldn't have any more! I started to think that I should have at least a teenager by now. I actually thought parenthood has passed me by! If anyone thinks it ok for a bloke as he has more time, maybe but you are kidding yourself if you think you are going to pull a younger woman, it does happen but it's not that common. 

As it happens, I did meet someone eventually just when I gave up, a friend of a friend, and at 47 my daughter came along, I'm now 51 and yes it is exhausting but I wouldn't swap it for being single again my daughter is the best thing that has happened to me!

As for the ex-wife, well she eventually remarried, her precious career bombed on her for a while, although she has managed to get back into what she was doing, can't see her letting the career slip now for kids, being 40 something I would say she has missed it, 50 is slipping into view now!

Never put anything off for tomorrow, because the tomorrow you may want may never come! Also if you're young definitely don't get involved with anyone long term unless you know what their intentions are regarding having children!

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On ‎08‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 15:14, Renewed Investor said:

I'm not desperate to have kids, but since becoming an Uncle a few years ago I've come to realize that I definitely want kids at some point in the next 5 or 10 years. There's no rush, I just have to know that the bird wants them at some point too. There's a guy I meet up with from time to time that I used to work with who never had any discussions about kids with his missus, assuming she wanted them at some point too. They're in their late 30's now and he really wants kids but she doesn't. Seems to be the core of all their fights these days. I don't want to end up like that. I think it's best to know your partners thoughts on these things before you get too invested or else you could end up wasting some of the most important years of your life. This is especially important for women given that their fertility goes downhill after 30. Us blokes are a lot luckier in that regard.

What I meant was that it isn`t good conversation for the chat up stage IMO, unless you have women just running up to you and dropping their underwear? Of course then you wouldn`t need the chat up stage at all and you could just impregnate them on the spot if you wanted, but you probably meant that you were just canvasing women your age`s views on the subject, not approaching them and bringing it up?

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On 11/08/2018 at 22:46, dances with sheeple said:

What I meant was that it isn`t good conversation for the chat up stage IMO, unless you have women just running up to you and dropping their underwear? Of course then you wouldn`t need the chat up stage at all and you could just impregnate them on the spot if you wanted, but you probably meant that you were just canvasing women your age`s views on the subject, not approaching them and bringing it up?

Most conversations end up going down the road of "What are your plans for the future" once you get past the small talk phase with women in my experience. They're probing your mind to find out what kind of character you are beyond the social pleasantries and chat up lines. Most people talk about their jobs first and any career prospects along with places they'd like to visit and activities they'd like to try. The idea of maybe having a family of their own tends to crop up naturally after these topics have been explored a bit. At this point I'm just honest and tell them that I would like kids in the future.

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On 07/08/2018 at 17:53, chronyx said:

Bees are matriarchal, the ideal society according to some.  I have no intention of being a drone for some queen bee.

You already are.

Across a lifetime for both genders, in society, only men are net taxpayers. Women take more out of the system in benefits and welfare than they put in through taxes.

So all of us (men) are the worker drones paying taxes to support the queen bees. Albeit indirectly.

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50 minutes ago, MrFancyPants said:

You already are.

Across a lifetime for both genders, in society, only men are net taxpayers. Women take more out of the system in benefits and welfare than they put in through taxes.

So all of us (men) are the worker drones paying taxes to support the queen bees. Albeit indirectly.

True, I should have qualified that with "As far as I can realistically manage"!

I wonder if anyone has done the maths as to how many 'tax offspring' a childless man has

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