Horseradish Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 On 28/06/2018 at 15:03, iamnumerate said: It is even worse than that, some of it has been changing homes to flats. A colleague sold her parents house (for £1 million allegedly, cost £3k in the 60s) and it is going to become 3 flats Worse quality of life, but more stock. I dunno. Sounds like a crappy deal to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 8 hours ago, Horseradish said: True. Though of course one problem here is that it's a bit apples-and-oranges. London is Europe's only megacity. It's just a shame that the housing is so bad. I'd not thought of it in those terms, yes. London, Tokyo, New York. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossie Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 11 hours ago, onlooker said: The two largest immigrant groups are Italians and Germans. Together with French and Austrian immigrants, they make up nearly half of the 2 million immigrants. They already speak the national languages of the country, and are probably tax exiles, so integration is not going to be a problem, is it? You're suggesting they are already wealthy? I can't bring myself to check on the tax-privileges. Seems there's also differences, for you can be Swiss permanent resident, but that's different from citizenship. Can't vote, from one source I just checked. And it can apparently lapse if you leave Switzerland. 7 hours ago, Dorkins said: I never said integration was a problem, I just said Switzerland is not a low migration country. Not when you're bringing skills or big cash, probably, during last few decades. I don't think many people here will be settling down and buying a house in Switzerland any time soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlooker Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 8 hours ago, Dorkins said: I never said integration was a problem, I just said Switzerland is not a low migration country. Switzerland is really one giant hotel. You are welcome to stay there, as long as you can pay the bills, and don't expect to take the hotel away from the Swiss people. AIUI every Swiss male did national service, and is rumoured to have a gun stashed away. Very good for keeping their leaders honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 7 hours ago, Horseradish said: Worse quality of life, but more stock. I dunno. Sounds like a crappy deal to me. I agree 100%, and some people think we have no supply problem because we have more dwellings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 15 hours ago, spyguy said: Indeed. UK white flight != US white flight. I nthis case, its more a case of low to medium income flight, where the natives are more likely to be whiter than the incomers. My point is that the UK should not be accepting any migrants who are not self sufficient. No one has ever explained how having loads of Somalis (a lot will be Dutch or Swedish 'citizens') moving o the UK is of any benefit. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/28/british-dream-europe-african-citizens ' Talking to African migrants, I have found many admire Britain so much they give up better public services elsewhere in the EU ' The continental public services may be better but they are contribution based and time limited. ' According to my Somali friend – a Swiss national – all her family who are Norwegian and Dutch nationals have over the years migrated to the UK –because there is such a big Somali community already existing here and according to her it was easiest for them to get benefits. It is true that the European welfare states often seem more generous but I think that in comparison to here they demand much more from these non-EU migrants. And if they don’t fully integrate into their new society it is almost impossible to get a decent education and job. Here and especially in London – this city of migrants - everything is much easier for them, all these NHS and other official papers in 10 or more languages – you would hardly find that in Germany. And it is also true that there are much less extreme right-wing groups than in all other European countries. ' I think the feeling is that it is racist to even question the benefits of Somali immigrants here. Personally I would let people from country x in, if the majority benefit us. The first criteria must be that they are less like to claim benefits or commit crime than people already here. I am not sure if that is true of Somalis or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, iamnumerate said: I think the feeling is that it is racist to even question the benefits of Somali immigrants here. Personally I would let people from country x in, if the majority benefit us. The first criteria must be that they are less like to claim benefits or commit crime than people already here. I am not sure if that is true of Somalis or not. Put race and what not out of it. We have an asylum system, which is a good thing. But less than 1% ofnon EU migrants have been asylm seekers. We have a welfare system. Its needs protecting before the UK pop gets so fed up of it abusing that they scrap it. A simple earning threshold set to be 5k higher than public services that migrants consume will suffice. Single person under 30 - 35k minimum earnings to remain. Family - 50k + 10k for each school age kid. Over 55? 150k. Simple. No prejudice. No favours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 8 minutes ago, spyguy said: Put race and what not out of it. We have an asylum system, which is a good thing. But less than 1% ofnon EU migrants have been asylm seekers. We have a welfare system. Its needs protecting before the UK pop gets so fed up of it abusing that they scrap it. A simple earning threshold set to be 5k higher than public services that migrants consume will suffice. Single person under 30 - 35k minimum earnings to remain. Family - 50k + 10k for each school age kid. Over 55? 150k. Simple. No prejudice. No favours. Sounds fair and you get deported if you break the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Most immigrants I know of pull their weight financially. The only problem I know is that many of them tend to (unintentionally) ghettoise existing communities, which is a shame and very disruptive to social stability, a real cost in itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckmojo Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 1 hour ago, onlooker said: Switzerland is really one giant hotel. You are welcome to stay there, as long as you can pay the bills, and don't expect to take the hotel away from the Swiss people. AIUI every Swiss male did national service, and is rumoured to have a gun stashed away. Very good for keeping their leaders honest. It's not a rumour about the guns, every male keeps their service rifle at home. Switzerland works great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Si1 said: Most immigrants I know of pull their weight financially. The only problem I know is that many of them tend to (unintentionally) ghettoise existing communities, which is a shame and very disruptive to social stability, a real cost in itself. Depends where you are and where the immigrant is from. I have a northern auntie - thats is, a woman who I have no family relationship with but moved in with my maternal GPs years ago - escaping a violent./useless husband. Anyhow, after a few years living with GPs, she eventually got housed in in Leeds, in an area that from the late 60s on has seen all the different waves of migrants. Its interesting talking to her. When they first started coming shed classify them as darkies - which sort of covered it back i nthe 60s She did not differentiate at all - they were 'not British' As the last 40 odd years has gone on, she's come up much more finessed opinions of the different cultures/countries: Caribbean - Nice but can go very bad. Her best friend is a Jamaican nurse who came over in 65. Ugandan asian - Very hard working. She still friends with one who ran a shop. 'All their kids work very hard and do professional jobs' She goes round for xmas drinks with her old shopkeeper. Cantonese - lovely but very rare. Ahmadis muslims - really nice and helpful and hard working. Bhangladeshi - not keen. cliquey. She *loathes* and I mean loathes Mipuri pakistanis - Pimps, kiddy fiddlers, drug dealers. EE are still pretty new to her. Polish - nice families. Other drink too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 2 hours ago, stuckmojo said: It's not a rumour about the guns, every male keeps their service rifle at home. Switzerland works great. You work or you have money. Bar the idiot Albanian footballers, the swiss have been very selective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 1 hour ago, spyguy said: Depends where you are and where the immigrant is from. I have a northern auntie - thats is, a woman who I have no family relationship with but moved in with my maternal GPs years ago - escaping a violent./useless husband. Anyhow, after a few years living with GPs, she eventually got housed in in Leeds, in an area that from the late 60s on has seen all the different waves of migrants. Its interesting talking to her. When they first started coming shed classify them as darkies - which sort of covered it back i nthe 60s She did not differentiate at all - they were 'not British' As the last 40 odd years has gone on, she's come up much more finessed opinions of the different cultures/countries: Caribbean - Nice but can go very bad. Her best friend is a Jamaican nurse who came over in 65. Ugandan asian - Very hard working. She still friends with one who ran a shop. 'All their kids work very hard and do professional jobs' She goes round for xmas drinks with her old shopkeeper. Cantonese - lovely but very rare. Ahmadis muslims - really nice and helpful and hard working. Bhangladeshi - not keen. cliquey. She *loathes* and I mean loathes Mipuri pakistanis - Pimps, kiddy fiddlers, drug dealers. EE are still pretty new to her. Polish - nice families. Other drink too much. Likewise white British isles races have a variety of personas, including council estate scum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted June 30, 2018 Author Share Posted June 30, 2018 4 hours ago, spyguy said: Put race and what not out of it. We have an asylum system, which is a good thing. But less than 1% ofnon EU migrants have been asylm seekers. We have a welfare system. Its needs protecting before the UK pop gets so fed up of it abusing that they scrap it. A simple earning threshold set to be 5k higher than public services that migrants consume will suffice. Single person under 30 - 35k minimum earnings to remain. Family - 50k + 10k for each school age kid. Over 55? 150k. Simple. No prejudice. No favours. Careful what you wish for........could then see highly educated and high net worth people from all over the world moving here to settle being in competition with British graduates for the same jobs.....the low paid jobs will then be in higher demand, fewer people that will do them, fewer people available to do them.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will! Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 (edited) On 27/06/2018 at 20:23, cashinmattress said: What fact? Here's another 'well known term'... "Londoners". Again... what the hell does ethnicity have to do with young Londoners leaving because its too expensive there? You lunatics can wrap it up whatever way you want, but it's undeniable.... and you know what I mean by "it". Do you mean economic migrants living in government-subsidised housing and receiving non-contribution based state benefits? Because that is indeed undeniable. Edited June 30, 2018 by Will! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 4 hours ago, stuckmojo said: Switzerland works great. Sounds like Switzerland shows that a high migration country can be done pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlooker Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 51 minutes ago, Dorkins said: Sounds like Switzerland shows that a high migration country can be done pretty well. What do you think the secret of the Swiss situation is? Could it be that the incomers have the same culture, values and can already speak the national languages of Switzerland (except Romanche)? Could it be that the incomers all have lots of money and good jobs, so don't need recourse to Swiss benefits, which they would not be entitled to anyway? It's a lot like South African whites coming to live in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 28 minutes ago, onlooker said: What do you think the secret of the Swiss situation is? Could it be that the incomers have the same culture, values and can already speak the national languages of Switzerland (except Romanche)? Could it be that the incomers all have lots of money and good jobs, so don't need recourse to Swiss benefits, which they would not be entitled to anyway? It's a lot like South African whites coming to live in the UK. Dont pick side. Live in a mountain redoubt. Set a high earning threshhold for migration. Dont ask where the money comes from .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 9 minutes ago, spyguy said: Dont pick side. Live in a mountain redoubt. Set a high earning threshhold for migration. Dont ask where the money comes from .... Make chocolate and Cuckoo clocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewig Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 44 minutes ago, Si1 said: Make chocolate and Cuckoo clocks White or dark chocolate? Bit racist mate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted June 30, 2018 Author Share Posted June 30, 2018 Anecdotal.......but so many more young people are staying living with parents into their 30s and 40s.....fewer men are getting married. Many more boomeranging back to parents after uni with mega debt, no shame....boomeranging back after relationship breakdowns usually because unable to create a family unit......so many living like students many years after being a student, throwing money down the drain high rents with no security, unable to save......just saying, because it is true, sign of the times...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 1 hour ago, thewig said: White or dark chocolate? Bit racist mate? Milkybar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted June 30, 2018 Author Share Posted June 30, 2018 35 minutes ago, Si1 said: Milkybar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 14 minutes ago, winkie said: Bit homophobic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted June 30, 2018 Author Share Posted June 30, 2018 10 minutes ago, Si1 said: Bit homophobic. Don't you start.......licorice allsorts.....all in the boat together.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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