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London's ultra-low emission zone to extend to North and South Circular - 18 TIMES LARGER than originally proposed - slapping £12.50 charges on motorists with no discount for residents

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cars/article-5820565/Vehicle-pollution-charges-cover-inner-London.html

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  • The ultra-low emission zone will be expanded to inner London from 2021
  • From October 2021 drivers of non-compliant cars will have to pay £12.50 a day to use in the capital - and there's no discount for residents living within the zone
  • Mayor Sadiq Khan confirmed on Friday that ULEZ will stretch to cover the entirety of inner London between the North and South Circular roads
  • ULEZ will be introduced in Central London from next year, replacing T-Charge

 

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58 minutes ago, fru-gal said:

Anyone in Inner London who's just changed from an old diesel to a 3 or 4 year old Euro 5 diesel is going to be furious. Euro 6 isn't much cleaner than 5 and only came in Sep 2015.

Consumers are being bullied into changing / scrapping while the manufacturers get decades of notice.  Its almost as if politicians prioritise big business over their constituents and are trying to keep consumption up.  What about the emissions made while manufacturing all the new cars this initiative will underpin the sale of?

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2 minutes ago, hotblack42 said:

Anyone in Inner London who's just changed from an old diesel to a 3 or 4 year old Euro 5 diesel is going to be furious. Euro 6 isn't much cleaner than 5 and only came in Sep 2015.

Consumers are being bullied into changing / scrapping while the manufacturers get decades of notice.  Its almost as if politicians prioritise big business over their constituents and are trying to keep consumption up.  What about the emissions made while manufacturing all the new cars this initiative will underpin the sale of?

What are the chances this becomes rolling? Every few years the minimum requirement is Euro Current+1, forcing people to change more often than they may have done previously? Probably do it right up to the point they ban the sale of petrol cars all together and ban petrol cars from the cities.

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1 minute ago, chronyx said:

I'd better keep my 2003 2 litre petrol then, so I can save up the necessary funds.  

Just clone someones plates. Paying the fines would be cheaper :)

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1 minute ago, Cosmic Apple said:

Just clone someones plates. Paying the fines would be cheaper :)

:D

I love their way of thinking.  Swap one almost fully depreciated asset for another with more depreciation to go, and assume they won't move the goalposts again.

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If you have an older car, do you have to scrap it if you don't want to pay the daily usage fee or can you get it updated rather than buying a newer car?

Edited by fru-gal

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1 minute ago, Cosmic Apple said:

What are the chances this becomes rolling? Every few years the minimum requirement is Euro Current+1, forcing people to change more often than they may have done previously? Probably do it right up to the point they ban the sale of petrol cars all together and ban petrol cars from the cities.

Good chance.  Its despicable to create a scheme to stimulate car sales while claiming its environmental. And deeply cynical to encourage the sale of lower emission vehicles only to move the goalposts.
I've kept cars for 10 years in the past.  How can we plan to do that sort of thing now?  The govt. will get there in a few decades anyway through the controls on new car emissions.  I don't understand what the hurry is.

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Parcel delivery just got more expensive, higher fuel costs, new emissions cost, now cost of many new lower emission vans, that is before the living working wage pay rises.😉

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Wow. That covers some real slum areas. Can't see the majority of the residents of Tower Hamlets paying 12 quid a day to drive. 

That said I was surprised on a recent visit how bad traffic still was with the congestion charge. Barely moves  as it is.

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I went to a meeting in London last year on a hot day in the summer. The pollution was disgusting. The air was thick with a heavy kind of fog.

I am not normally that fussy about this sort of stuff, but I really wouldn't want to live somewhere where you are constantly surrounded by a nasty chemical haze.

They really need to do something about it.

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Why are we using Euro standards to tax motorists when we are leaving the EU? We tax people on the basis of standards that we are not prepared to pay into the maintenance of?? How is that nothing more than intellectual property theft for taxation?

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Nobody wants or likes air pollution......not that long ago people were encouraged to buy diesel cars, most vans are diesel, there is high MOT standards for emissions already.....many older low cc petrol cars meet these emission tests.....some buses do not, see grey smoke coming from waste incinerators and factories, wood burning stoves, fire places, some aircraft...... pollution is going to be higher in high density areas......this is more about, buying new, the collection of taxes, the move or encouragement to non ownership of own transport and the eventual  move to rent electric transport, pay as you go.......walking and cycling......slowly slowly catchy monkey.😉

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2 hours ago, Trump Invective said:

Good. Get on yet bike.

As a service engineer - nurse or woman on her own after working in a west end restaurant at 3 in the morning - really ? 

 

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48 minutes ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

I went to a meeting in London last year on a hot day in the summer. The pollution was disgusting. The air was thick with a heavy kind of fog.

I am not normally that fussy about this sort of stuff, but I really wouldn't want to live somewhere where you are constantly surrounded by a nasty chemical haze.

They really need to do something about it.

They probably do but it’s our town and millions of us have to earn a living and isn’t always practical to use public transport or cycle - but yep something needs to be done 

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1 hour ago, regprentice said:

Wow. That covers some real slum areas. Can't see the majority of the residents of Tower Hamlets paying 12 quid a day to drive. 

That said I was surprised on a recent visit how bad traffic still was with the congestion charge. Barely moves  as it is.

Traffic moved back to pre congestion charge levels about 3 years after its introduction 

biggest problem now is Uber type cabs and multi drop vans for amazon and the like - you aren’t saving the planet by not supporting the high st 

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1 hour ago, Cosmic Apple said:

Just clone someones plates. Paying the fines would be cheaper :)

Small plates bikes being doing it for years - use and construction - 7 day note - no points 😉

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1 hour ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

I went to a meeting in London last year on a hot day in the summer. The pollution was disgusting. The air was thick with a heavy kind of fog.

I am not normally that fussy about this sort of stuff, but I really wouldn't want to live somewhere where you are constantly surrounded by a nasty chemical haze.

Indeed. The best outcome would be for more people to leave London and seek a better life all round elsewhere.

 

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1 hour ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

I went to a meeting in London last year on a hot day in the summer. The pollution was disgusting. The air was thick with a heavy kind of fog.

I am not normally that fussy about this sort of stuff, but I really wouldn't want to live somewhere where you are constantly surrounded by a nasty chemical haze.

They really need to do something about it.

If you can afford it you can avoid maybe 80% by living in a green area like Wimbledon or Wanstead.  No avoiding some pollution on the commute.  Working on a high floor next to the river helps too.
Knowing there are kiddies living on or near highly polluted major roads is something we should all feel bad about but better things could be done such as replacing Council Tax with a 0.25% property tax* (1% if empty or a non-dom) and using the billions raised annually from the quite well off to obscenely wealthy to provide cheap, clean, reliable public transport for everyone.

*Yes grannies living alone should be encouraged to vacate 4/5  bedroom houses in Chelsea by a £5000+ annual tax bill.  What a disaster for them, having to move to a serviced apartment with a concierge and have £500k left over to play with, my heart bleeds.  I'd cap the single person discount at £500 too and let it wither on the vine (just thought of that 😃)

Edited by hotblack42

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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      • down 5% +
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