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House Prices vs Salaries

House Prices vs Salaries  

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  1. 1. When will the average UK house price return to less than 4x the single mean full time wage?

    • 2018-2020
      22
    • 2021-2025
      69
    • 2026-2030
      30
    • 2031+
      24
    • They never will
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The age of single wage multiples is over. Feminism brought women to the workplace, and their labour has been absorbed in to house prices. It’s a one-way ticket.

Single people with average income have no chance.

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1 hour ago, dropbear said:

The age of single wage multiples is over. Feminism brought women to the workplace, and their labour has been absorbed in to house prices. It’s a one-way ticket.  Single people with average income have no chance.

Unfortunately I agree - with both men and women working couples have more money left over after buying the essentials with which to bid up house prices, so that's what they'll do.  It's a genuine game-changer.

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Based on my salary as a batchelor I could possibly qualify for a mortgage of £72k (not that I want a mortgage anymore). A spacious 2 bedroomed flat in my city can be bought for around £130k maybe. House prices are certainly out of sync imo.

@dropbear - great post. Feminism has a lot to answer for.

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1 hour ago, dropbear said:

The age of single wage multiples is over. Feminism brought women to the workplace, and their labour has been absorbed in to house prices. It’s a one-way ticket.

Single people with average income have no chance.

Very true.  In eralier times the mortgage would be 3 x the man's salary, now it is 4 times joint.

36 minutes ago, scottbeard said:

Unfortunately I agree - with both men and women working couples have more money left over after buying the essentials with which to bid up house prices, so that's what they'll do.  It's a genuine game-changer.

totally

12 minutes ago, MattW said:

Feminism has a lot to answer for.

omg do not say that to the pc brigade they will be horrified 

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1 hour ago, dropbear said:

The age of single wage multiples is over. Feminism brought women to the workplace, and their labour has been absorbed in to house prices. It’s a one-way ticket.

Single people with average income have no chance.

The environment we are in is not a natural one. Female workplace presence is heavily subsidised by men through the government. Whatever your views on the morality of the situation, taxation is theft, which is to say, the way the government spends the money is not how people would given free choice.

The argument that female employment is permanent hinges on the assertion that the government can maintain this unnatural status quo forever. Historically, this has never been the case. It may continue a lot longer, or it may collapse under its own weight in the near future, but it will end.

Consider that Gen. Z are, by some measures becoming more conservative (anti-Statist) than millennials and boomers.

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10 minutes ago, Locke said:

Female workplace presence is heavily subsidised by men through the government.

In what way?  Can you give an example?

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11 minutes ago, scottbeard said:

In what way?  Can you give an example?

Maternity leave, anti-discrimination laws, subsidised childcare, interventions which make makework jobs such as HR necessary.

Progressive taxation is a big one. If a family has an income of £40k, they get more when you have 2 x £20k than 1 x £40k. This is a strong economic incentive for women to work. Still, men pay 75% of taxes, which go to policing, transportation and healthcare, which subsisdises women in lower paid jobs and who therefore aren't paying as much tax.

 

The fact is, without the State distortions, there would be far fewer women in work.

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54 minutes ago, Locke said:

Maternity leave, anti-discrimination laws, subsidised childcare, interventions which make makework jobs such as HR necessary.

Progressive taxation is a big one. If a family has an income of £40k, they get more when you have 2 x £20k than 1 x £40k. This is a strong economic incentive for women to work. Still, men pay 75% of taxes, which go to policing, transportation and healthcare, which subsisdises women in lower paid jobs and who therefore aren't paying as much tax.

 

The fact is, without the State distortions, there would be far fewer women in work.

I’m female.  I earn 60k, my male partner earns 30k.  I don’t think feminism is the issue.  To me feminism just means giving women the same opportunities as men to go to university and take on professional jobs.  Women like me actually subsidise low skilled and low earning men.

Is it just women in the workplace you are unhappy about or do you have an issue with disabled people, people of colour, older people too having jobs too?

I think that there is a problem with the benefits culture started by Blair and Brown which encouraged the feckless to have 5 “disabled” kids as a career rather than work and contribute.  The Tories are trying to reign this in with the two child and benefit caps.

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12 minutes ago, Mancunian284 said:

To me feminism just means giving women the same opportunities

 

I don’t think feminism is the issue.

1

WIth feminism1st or 2nd wave feminism I would agree. 3rd and 4th wave feminism, I'm not so sure. Over the last few years, It's got to a point where science, particularly regarding evolutionary biology, is being thrown out the window for the sake of "equality" and "diversity". feminism

 

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36 minutes ago, Mancunian284 said:

Is it just women in the workplace you are unhappy about or do you have an issue with disabled people, people of colour, older people too having jobs too?

What makes you think I am unhappy with women in the workplace? I didn't give an opinion either way, stating simple facts.

I don't care who companies employ, and more importantly, do not employ.

It is the force of government manipulating the environment which I have a problem with.

 

By the way, you are an extreme outlier. Most female workers are net contributors to the system (give more tax than they spend) for about 4 years in their 40's. The rest of the time, they consume more taxes than they contribute.

What is your job?

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16 minutes ago, Locke said:

What makes you think I am unhappy with women in the workplace? I didn't give an opinion either way, stating simple facts.

I don't care who companies employ, and more importantly, do not employ.

It is the force of government manipulating the environment which I have a problem with.

 

By the way, you are an extreme outlier. Most female workers are net contributors to the system (give more tax than they spend) for about 4 years in their 40's. The rest of the time, they consume more taxes than they contribute.

What is your job?

 My friends only take a year max off per kid and given that they are higher rate tax payers then I think they are entitled to their £540 per month maternity pay, given how much they have paid in.  They’ve spent the rest of their working lives subsidising the offspring of low skilled men.

I work in Marketing for a professional services firm. I earn twice the average salary so am clearly an outlier in terms of averages.  I read somewhere that any single person (male or female) who earns less than 19k is being subsidised.  I don’t know if this number is correct.  My point is that there is a culture of popping out kids for benefits that has come from somewhere - I don’t think feminism is the problem though.

Edited by Mancunian284

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44 minutes ago, CanAffordWontPay said:

WIth feminism1st or 2nd wave feminism I would agree. 3rd and 4th wave feminism, I'm not so sure. Over the last few years, It's got to a point where science, particularly regarding evolutionary biology, is being thrown out the window for the sake of "equality" and "diversity". feminism

 

I think the person most capable of doing the job should be appointed, gender, sexuality, disability etc shouldn’t be a factor.  I wouldn’t expect to be offered a job that involved a lot of heavy lifting over a burly man just to satisfy some agenda, as I clearly would not be the best person for the job ( despite my best efforts at the gym I am still not very strong), however a female professional weight lifter may be better for that job than a man who is not very fit. To me, feminism means equality of opportunity.  

I think that positive discrimination takes things too far.

Edited by Mancunian284

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5 minutes ago, Mancunian284 said:

I think the person most capable of doing the job should be appointed, gender, sexuality, disability etc shouldn’t be a factor.  I wouldn’t expect to be offered a job that involved a lot of heavy lifting over a burly man just to satisfy some agenda, as I clearly would not be the best person for the job ( despite my best efforts at the gym I am still not very strong), however a female professional weight lifter may be better for that job than a man who is not very fit.

I'm in total agreement. Couldn't care less on ones gender, race, creed or their sexual persuasion. Give the best person the job. Sadly though there is a consious effort to increase female and ethic/diversity quotas. It's plain as day. I don't watch much tv these days but have to laugh when I do, one can go through and tick off the diversity checkboxes. Never saw a single man on the winter olympics studio coverage. Even Dion Dublin was sandwiched between three females during a soccer saturday show the other month when i happened to catch a bit 😂

Have you heard/looked into the Google/James Damore saga? It's a bit scary really. Not as bad in the UK but it is accerlating. Noticed even Nutmeg (who I have LISA with until the 2nd bonus is paid) are on the bandwagon https://www.nutmeg.com/about/diversity

 

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42 minutes ago, CanAffordWontPay said:

I'm in total agreement. Couldn't care less on ones gender, race, creed or their sexual persuasion. Give the best person the job. Sadly though there is a consious effort to increase female and ethic/diversity quotas. It's plain as day. I don't watch much tv these days but have to laugh when I do, one can go through and tick off the diversity checkboxes. Never saw a single man on the winter olympics studio coverage. Even Dion Dublin was sandwiched between three females during a soccer saturday show the other month when i happened to catch a bit 😂

Have you heard/looked into the Google/James Damore saga? It's a bit scary really. Not as bad in the UK but it is accerlating. Noticed even Nutmeg (who I have LISA with until the 2nd bonus is paid) are on the bandwagon https://www.nutmeg.com/about/diversity

 

I think positive discrimination is an import from the USA.  They had a bigger issue than us with lack of racial equality after segregation ended.  Not saying we haven’t/don’t have issues but they aren’t on the same scale.  That positive discrimination seems to have seeped into areas other than race now.  I still don’t think it’s quite as bad over here (but getting worse), although the public sector, including the BBC, seem to have embraced positive discrimination more than the private sector.  

I would rather call it positive discrimination instead of referring to an equality agenda.  Equality is good but positive discrimination is not equality.

It just annoys me when people like Locke imply that women like my friends and many other women are being subsidised by men, when we are actually the ones doing the subsidising.

I’ll have a look into Google/James Damore.

Edited by Mancunian284

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1 hour ago, Mancunian284 said:

 I don’t think feminism is the problem though.

Not a problem, but there’s no question that it has affected house prices and home loan multipliers.

Your partner’s average salary would have in the past been enough to buy an average home.

But since your household has two incomes, you are outbidding the single-income couples, who now cannot compete. Essentially, banks now command the woman’s lifetime of labour as well as the man’s - and they don’t even pick up the childcare bill.

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45 minutes ago, dropbear said:

Not a problem, but there’s no question that it has affected house prices and home loan multipliers.

Your partner’s average salary would have in the past been enough to buy an average home.

But since your household has two incomes, you are outbidding the single-income couples, who now cannot compete. Essentially, banks now command the woman’s lifetime of labour as well as the man’s - and they don’t even pick up the childcare bill.

But you could use that argument to say that racial equality has impacted house prices then. As racial equality has improved, more people of colour have gained access to the kinds of jobs that enable them to get mortgages, creating competition and bidding up prices.  The same argument could be applied to sexual orientation, disability etc.

Childcare is expensive - £800 per month per child and you don’t get any help if you have a household income of more than about £35k. Under MMR childcare costs are now taken into account when a lender decides how much they will lend.

Also, up until the early 1980s, a single woman was not allowed a mortgage unless she had a responsible male to guarantee it for her.  My mother worked for NatWest then and would not have been allowed a mortgage from her own employer.  So not all single people could buy a house on a single wage in the past.

Edited by Mancunian284

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19 minutes ago, Mancunian284 said:

With that attitude I’m sure you are a bachelor by choice.

😂😂😂

 

Touché! ;)

You're trying to shame me for being single but the reality is that outside of work I have a lot of freedom. And i get to spend all my money on ME! :P

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1 minute ago, MattW said:

Touché! ;)

You're trying to shame me for being single but the reality is that outside of work I have a lot of freedom. And i get to spend all my money on ME! :P

That’s nice for you.  I’m spending my money subsidising your healthcare, security, pension etc (assuming you’re on about 20k based on the mortgage figure above).  You should be thanking feminism for putting me in a position to do that!

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  • 337 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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