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Lavalas

Toby Lloyd - Advisor to Theresa May

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Couldn't see a thread, apologies if I missed it...

Toby Lloyd, former head of policy at Shelter and co-author of Rethinking the Economics of Land and Housing, has apparently been appointed as advisor to Theresa May (or at least that's what I read on Twitter, actual news is thin on the ground).

His book has been on my to-read list but I'm sure some you have already done so.

Rethinking the Economics of Land and Housing

Interested to hear your thoughts on this chap and potential policy implications.

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12 minutes ago, Lavalas said:

His book has been on my to-read list but I'm sure some you have already done so.

Rethinking the Economics of Land and Housing

Interested to hear your thoughts on this chap and potential policy implications.

The book is excellent.

IIRC one of the policy proposals the book leans towards is the state or quasi-state housing corporations keeping the ownership of the land (and therefore capturing the increases in the value of the land). One of the often unspoken messages here on the forum is that people understand that there is much to be gained if you can set yourself up as one of the people who is capturing the income (imputed or otherwise) that flows from owning land and also capturing capital gains as the real value of the land increases. Lloyd is coming from a more abstract perspective where you seek to ensure that society captures those same benefits. Part of that is a 'boot-strapping' process where an institution captures the benefits and uses them to build more high quality housing, capturing even more of the benefits that flow from owning land and thus acting as a provider of cheap high quality housing.

This kind of model is what Lloyd sets up as an alternative to our present 'developer-led' model.

Edited by Beary McBearface

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16 minutes ago, Beary McBearface said:

The book is excellent.

IIRC one of the policy proposals the book leans towards is the state or quasi-state housing corporations keeping the ownership of the land (and therefore capturing the increases in the value of the land). One of the often unspoken messages here on the forum is that people understand that there is much to be gained if you can set yourself up as one of the people who is capturing the income (imputed or otherwise) that flows from owning land and also capturing capital gains as the real value of the land increases. Lloyd is coming from a more abstract perspective where you seek to ensure that society captures those same benefits. Part of that is a 'boot-strapping' process where an institution captures the benefits and uses them to build more high quality housing, capturing even more of the benefits that flow from owning land and thus acting as a provider of cheap high quality housing.

This kind of model is what Lloyd sets up as an alternative to our present 'developer-led' model.

That's really interesting, thanks. I suppose this would then bring down the cost of land to more of an equilibrium. Bigger increases facilitating bigger measures to combat the increases  I don't know, I'll really have to read it.

He wrote an article in the Guardian last year...

Why have all attempts to fix Britain’s housing crisis failed? Look to the land

Quote

Land is obviously important for housebuilding, but the land problem goes much deeper than our housing shortage. It lies right at the heart of many of the economic problems we face today. Financial instability, mounting inequality, debt overhangs and the puzzle of stagnant productivity are all direct results of our failure to properly account for and manage land in the modern economy.

 

Quote

But to really fix the problem of land, we need to do more than increase housebuilding. We need to break the positive feedback cycle between the financial system, land values and the wider economy, and to capture more of the unearned windfalls private landowners currently pocket at the expense of society at large. And that will require bold financial regulation and tax reforms, and more direct intervention into the dysfunctional land market. Only this will allow us to better balance the benefits and harms caused by what Churchill called “the mother of all monopolies” the ownership of land.

giphy.gif

 

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18 minutes ago, Lavalas said:

That's really interesting, thanks. I suppose this would then bring down the cost of land to more of an equilibrium. Bigger increases facilitating bigger measures to combat the increases  I don't know, I'll really have to read it.

He wrote an article in the Guardian last year...

Why have all attempts to fix Britain’s housing crisis failed? Look to the land

Quote

 

Land first began to be treated as tradable, private property in the 16th century – triggering the birth of modern finance and parliamentary democracy. Yet the economic transformation created by the privatisation of church and common land impoverished millions, as vast numbers were driven off it.

There was something manifestly unfair wrong about a minority turning what had previously been a common source of food, shelter and security into a source of private wealth: those who had to rent land found that any additional value they could generate was quickly absorbed by higher rents, leaving them no better off even as the economy grew.

 

 

 

THIS, land 'ownership', in addition to the creation of 'money' from thin air are the two absolute fundamental wrongs of our time.

Many thanks for the link. it represents ALL this site is about.

Toby Lloyd. Never heard the name before, worth remembering.
 

 

 

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49 minutes ago, Lavalas said:

That's really interesting, thanks. I suppose this would then bring down the cost of land to more of an equilibrium. Bigger increases facilitating bigger measures to combat the increases  I don't know, I'll really have to read it.

He wrote an article in the Guardian last year...

Why have all attempts to fix Britain’s housing crisis failed? Look to the land

 

giphy.gif

 

One of the key lines of economic argument in the book is that land is a factor of production but it doesn't behave in the way that other factors behave. This made it difficult for economists' mathematical models of the economy to capture land, so they left it out. You end up with a map that ignores the terrain. A key factor is neglected, the consequences are significant if policy is guided by the model - and it has been.

There's a degree to which this is what James Kwak has called 'Economism' at work here. Incomplete models which are part of how an academic discipline makes progress. The trouble starts in earnest when people with ulterior motives impress on the great unwashed the idea that these incomplete models are unquestionable facts and that to question them is to be 'economically illiterate' (casts a bit of shade at the Institute of Economic Affairs).

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2 minutes ago, solentmuppet said:

Wow,just wow. I mean, it's like they really believe what they're saying.....just wow.

I can't even 

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2 hours ago, Beary McBearface said:

One of the often unspoken messages here on the forum is that people understand that there is much to be gained if you can set yourself up as one of the people who is capturing the income (imputed or otherwise) that flows from owning land and also capturing capital gains as the real value of the land increases. Lloyd is coming from a more abstract perspective where you seek to ensure that society captures those same benefits. Part of that is a 'boot-strapping' process where an institution captures the benefits and uses them to build more high quality housing, capturing even more of the benefits that flow from owning land and thus acting as a provider of cheap high quality housing.

This kind of model is what Lloyd sets up as an alternative to our present 'developer-led' model.

Speaking of land value, this is encouraging

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Significant: High Court ruling that affordable housing requirements should be factored into land value - price paid should not be used to bypass planning policy <a href="https://t.co/ahdm2CIZ2f">https://t.co/ahdm2CIZ2f</a></p>&mdash; Daniel Bentley (@danielbentley) <a href="https://twitter.com/danielbentley/status/989918036462329857?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 27, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> 


 

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4 hours ago, Lavalas said:

Couldn't see a thread, apologies if I missed it...

Toby Lloyd, former head of policy at Shelter and co-author of Rethinking the Economics of Land and Housing, has apparently been appointed as advisor to Theresa May (or at least that's what I read on Twitter, actual news is thin on the ground).

His book has been on my to-read list but I'm sure some you have already done so.

Rethinking the Economics of Land and Housing

Interested to hear your thoughts on this chap and potential policy implications.

No idea who the guy is but the fact that it seems to be going down like a cup of warm sick with the "private housing providers" tells me that it's excellent news 🙂

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Sounds like a sensible appointment. How well they utilise his knowledge remains to be seen. You could give me a fat slice of mahogany and the finest carpentry tools ever made and still be lucky to get a wonky spice rack out of it. Proof will be in the eating and this government has a history of serving shit sandwiches.

 

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4 hours ago, cnick said:

Oh my god.. They think they are GOD’s.. low life slavers.. 

118’ers reading this.. I don’t want to pay your mortgage, you are not the solution, you are the cancerous growth that blights the housing market.. You are the high house prices, you are the evil, the greed, the depravity, the homelessness, the reason going to work is pointless and the destruction of all that was good about owning a happy home.. 

PS.. it’s hot in hell.. although I have heard land prices are cheap so if you get there first you might be able to get good rent from a lava pit of fire.! 

We all know you would enslave the devil himself for a few quid.. 😂

Edited by macca13

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12 hours ago, Lavalas said:

Couldn't see a thread, apologies if I missed it...

Toby Lloyd, former head of policy at Shelter and co-author of Rethinking the Economics of Land and Housing, has apparently been appointed as advisor to Theresa May (or at least that's what I read on Twitter, actual news is thin on the ground).

His book has been on my to-read list but I'm sure some you have already done so.

Rethinking the Economics of Land and Housing

Interested to hear your thoughts on this chap and potential policy implications.

Now that really is quite interesting

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I'm not familiar with this guy himself, but hasn't Shelter's general stance on house buying and affordability been that there should be more ''help'' to buy? aka more help to keep prices inflated  aka more help for people to take on even MORE debt etc etc

Edited by nome

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11 hours ago, Beary McBearface said:

The book is excellent.

IIRC one of the policy proposals the book leans towards is the state or quasi-state housing corporations keeping the ownership of the land (and therefore capturing the increases in the value of the land). One of the often unspoken messages here on the forum is that people understand that there is much to be gained if you can set yourself up as one of the people who is capturing the income (imputed or otherwise) that flows from owning land and also capturing capital gains as the real value of the land increases. Lloyd is coming from a more abstract perspective where you seek to ensure that society captures those same benefits. Part of that is a 'boot-strapping' process where an institution captures the benefits and uses them to build more high quality housing, capturing even more of the benefits that flow from owning land and thus acting as a provider of cheap high quality housing.

This kind of model is what Lloyd sets up as an alternative to our present 'developer-led' model.

Cameron's housing advisor was, iirc, at least for a time, Krusty Alsop, so this is certainly an advancement.

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56 minutes ago, Si1 said:

Cameron's housing advisor was, iirc, at least for a time, Krusty Alsop, so this is certainly an advancement.

Do you not think they've got many advisers already who know the exact reasons as to why property prices are insane.

Its not exact a difficult concept to figure out why, FFS even May herself said it was due to QE, ZIRP when she was trying to get her job then the wretched old grey woman kept her printer in chief at the BoE who then printed vastly more money and dropped interest rates.

Just another middle class mouth for the taxpayer to feed.

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54 minutes ago, TJHooker said:

Do you not think they've got many advisers already who know the exact reasons as to why property prices are insane.

Its not exact a difficult concept to figure out why, FFS even May herself said it was due to QE, ZIRP when she was trying to get her job then the wretched old grey woman kept her printer in chief at the BoE who then printed vastly more money and dropped interest rates.

Just another middle class mouth for the taxpayer to feed.

That's fine, but advisors with an actual influence are a different thing. If they had informed advisors then wtf was HTB all about?

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Just now, Si1 said:

That's fine, but advisors with an actual influence are a different thing. If they had informed advisors then wtf was HTB all about?

Creating a nice little property boom. That was seemingly Gidiot and Hammonds brainchild.

Hence they would have had advisors explaining this to them, though they knew anyway.

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10 hours ago, Patient London FTB said:

Speaking of land value, this is encouraging


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Significant: High Court ruling that affordable housing requirements should be factored into land value - price paid should not be used to bypass planning policy <a href="https://t.co/ahdm2CIZ2f">https://t.co/ahdm2CIZ2f</a></p>&mdash; Daniel Bentley (@danielbentley) <a href="https://twitter.com/danielbentley/status/989918036462329857?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 27, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> 


 

Think you have wandered over from the TSB thread ......😉

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12 minutes ago, Si1 said:

That's fine, but advisors with an actual influence are a different thing. If they had informed advisors then wtf was HTB all about?

But it is not HTB it is help to sell.....helping the builders to sell at a higher price?;)

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13 minutes ago, TJHooker said:

Creating a nice little property boom. That was seemingly Gidiot and Hammonds brainchild.

Hence they would have had advisors explaining this to them, though they knew anyway.

I tend to go by Napoleon's maxim 'never ascribe to malice that which is more readily explained by incompetence'

On the one hand they maliciously bribed one segment of the electorate to buy the 2015 election; on the other hand they incompetently overlooked the longer term social and political consequences.

I think with this latter point their advisors came up very short.

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13 minutes ago, GregBowman said:

Just had a look at the comments and one of the gormless twunts lists GDPR as just another example of useless regulation - really hope they are a TSB customer !

They are a deeply unpleasant group of maggots 

Indeed, I'm all for enterprise because the wealth generation is positive sum. They just don't get that defining point.

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  • 337 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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