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30% pay rises for NHS workers.


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48 minutes ago, Errol said:

 

Obviously just one view, but I believe it is going to $10,000 an ounce and higher. I continue to add. In any event, I'd rather have the actual ounces as opposed to paper.

boat was missed about 10 years ago already probably 2009 was the end. 

assuming it goes up. i am sure a new mine with 100000 tonnes will be found in any event. 

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3 hours ago, Democorruptcy said:

£20.60 today for my dentist, who is dropping to a 3 day week. No wonder with how their charges have gone up.

That is the standard NHS charge - the dentist doesn't get that, they collect it on behalf of the NHS. The £20.60 includes an examination, scale and polish, X-rays, sealants, photographs, minor complexity assessments and similar minor procedures as required. (i.e. the fee is paid once for as many minor assessments as are performed on that attendance).

The dentist bills for that session at a pre-agreed rate to the local clinical commissioning group. The prices are locally negotiated. The dentist then puts in an invoice for what work has been performed (e.g. examination, X-rays and scale/polish), according to the terms and conditions of the contract.

One of the ways that CCGs have been putting pressure on the front line is to only fund a certain number of procedures. For example, they are putting caps on the total number of procedures in each billing cycle. For example, if a dentist's CCG will only agree 4000 check-ups per year, then that's all they will pay for. For a dentist with who runs a tight ship and can see 25 cases in a day, that basically means a 3 day week, after which point they aren't getting paid.

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58 minutes ago, headmelter said:

Top Band 6 is £34,500... I can't speak for her but if she completed her training in the late 80's she's unlikely to have a degree unless she did a further course.

Do you need a higher level of maths to enter the majority of other available careers ?

Now you still haven't informed me of the highly important job you do that requires 3rd level education , constant updates which are monitored by a professional body and is practically indispensable by society.

Im a CEng. I have 2 Bscs (maths, comp sci) and Msc (more maths). I do high availabilty  safety critical systems which, if they went wrong, would result in more deaths than Beverly Allitt in GOSH.

Id  have been sued if i delivered the level of competence the Nurse and GP who looked after a relative - incorrect does, failure to monitor, oh, and incorrect paperwork.

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8 minutes ago, ChumpusRex said:

That is the standard NHS charge - the dentist doesn't get that, they collect it on behalf of the NHS. The £20.60 includes an examination, scale and polish, X-rays, sealants, photographs, minor complexity assessments and similar minor procedures as required. (i.e. the fee is paid once for as many minor assessments as are performed on that attendance).

The dentist bills for that session at a pre-agreed rate to the local clinical commissioning group. The prices are locally negotiated. The dentist then puts in an invoice for what work has been performed (e.g. examination, X-rays and scale/polish), according to the terms and conditions of the contract.

One of the ways that CCGs have been putting pressure on the front line is to only fund a certain number of procedures. For example, they are putting caps on the total number of procedures in each billing cycle. For example, if a dentist's CCG will only agree 4000 check-ups per year, then that's all they will pay for. For a dentist with who runs a tight ship and can see 25 cases in a day, that basically means a 3 day week, after which point they aren't getting paid.

Yep the dentist check up at £20.60 is the bargain of the century under the NHS. Since I get to the dentist about every 8 months that's £30.90 pa. which makes me wonder why do Denplan. If the worst comes to the worst you are capped at a couple of hundred for a crown

 

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17 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Im a CEng. I have 2 Bscs (maths, comp sci) and Msc (more maths). I do high availabilty  safety critical systems which, if they went wrong, would result in more deaths than Beverly Allitt in GOSH.

Id  have been sued if i delivered the level of competence the Nurse and GP who looked after a relative - incorrect does, failure to monitor, oh, and incorrect paperwork.

I'm sure with the high standard of education that you have you could navigate your relative through a simple complaints procedure to prove malpractice.

If your relatives' life was endangered or worse they had suffered a life changing injury they have the option to sue through the court who will award compensation which is usually commensurate to damages paid to individualswho have sustained injuries whether it be through medical negligence or failure of a "high availability safety critical system".

Edited by headmelter
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Just now, headmelter said:

I'm sure with the high standard of education that you have you could navigate your relative through a simple complaints procedure to prove malpractice.

These were everyday fux ups, where the entire org plays dumb.

A quick look at handling of never events shows there is a problem in the nhs with accountability.

Thats a lot of money

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36327310

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2 hours ago, Sperm Donor said:

I have to say those that think nurses get paid more than people who work in offices live in a different universe to me. I've worked in offices all my life and my wife is a nurse. She works her nuts off for £25k while I know people who file their nails all day that get paid £30k plus.

She's giving people syringe drivers etc all day in incredibly stressful conditions while I have read all of Wikipedia in 34 languages sitting on my fat harris.

 

Your wifes wage is lower than average in your example, and your office workers wage is far higher than average in your example. 

I prefer averages the game your playing is the same one i hear when they trot out a trainee nurse as an example saying "well how can she live on 15k a year, im like well duh shes a trainee not an average paid nurse and shes on more than most other trainees are. its the little game the public sector allways play. im not saying nurses shouldnt get a decent pay im just saying use better figures than your biased example. 

Edited by jimmy2x3
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1 minute ago, jimmy2x3 said:

your wifes wage is lower than average in your example, and your office workers wage is far higher than average in your example. 

i prefer averages the game your playing is the same one i hear when they trot out a trainee nurse as an example saying "well how can she live on 15k a year, im like well duh shes a trainee not an average paid nurse and shes on more than most other trainees are. its the little game the public sector allways play. im not saying nurses shouldnt get a decent pay im just saying use better figures than your biased example. 

Any sources to back up that statement regarding the respective average salaries?

For starters how do you define "office worker"? Yes, a temp in a call centre isn' making £30k plus but that's not a good comparison with a qualified nurse. 

Spyguy apparrently thinks £38k after 10 years in the profession is Rockerfeller money. Most people in my profession (accounting) are earning that or close by at the latest year 5 and most likely year 2. ****** it, you can get to partner in some firms in 11 or 12 years. A car salesmen will earn more than that for flogging brand new Audis on PCP contracts to kids who can't afford them. How much education does that job need? 

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56 minutes ago, ChumpusRex said:

That is the standard NHS charge - the dentist doesn't get that, they collect it on behalf of the NHS. The £20.60 includes an examination, scale and polish, X-rays, sealants, photographs, minor complexity assessments and similar minor procedures as required. (i.e. the fee is paid once for as many minor assessments as are performed on that attendance).

The dentist bills for that session at a pre-agreed rate to the local clinical commissioning group. The prices are locally negotiated. The dentist then puts in an invoice for what work has been performed (e.g. examination, X-rays and scale/polish), according to the terms and conditions of the contract.

One of the ways that CCGs have been putting pressure on the front line is to only fund a certain number of procedures. For example, they are putting caps on the total number of procedures in each billing cycle. For example, if a dentist's CCG will only agree 4000 check-ups per year, then that's all they will pay for. For a dentist with who runs a tight ship and can see 25 cases in a day, that basically means a 3 day week, after which point they aren't getting paid.

I knew the £20.60 was the standard NHS charge but thanks for the detail in the last bit. I can understand anyone not working if they wouldn't be paid anything.

 

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29 minutes ago, spyguy said:

These were everyday fux ups, where the entire org plays dumb.

A quick look at handling of never events shows there is a problem in the nhs with accountability.

Thats a lot of money

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36327310

If an individual practitioner is 'guilty' of negligence the Trust will recoup any money paid out from the practitioner in question. I must have my own indemnity insurance to cover such an eventuality.

 

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14 minutes ago, jimmy2x3 said:

Your wifes wage is lower than average in your example, and your office workers wage is far higher than average in your example. 

I prefer averages the game your playing is the same one i hear when they trot out a trainee nurse as an example saying "well how can she live on 15k a year, im like well duh shes a trainee not an average paid nurse and shes on more than most other trainees are. its the little game the public sector allways play. im not saying nurses shouldnt get a decent pay im just saying use better figures than your biased example. 

He has given the mid spine point for a staff nurse  so is pretty much 'average' imo..

 

https://www.rcn.org.uk/employment-and-pay/nhs-pay-scales-2016-17

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All this talk of pay is beside the point.

Working conditions in the NHS are mostly crap. Understaffing, temp workers, huge expectations, dysfunctional systems, lots of talk about patient care being a priority when what they really want is a lot of boxes ticked as quickly as possible.

They can offer more money. They can train more doctors and nurses. But until they improve conditions the staff will not stay long term and the reputation will continue to degrade. When they struggle to top up with competent immigrants thats when the shit will really hit the fan.

 

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It seems my dental charge increases are helping Scotland more than my dentist.

Quote

 

March 2016:

As the economy recovers, so one would expect patients’ disposable income to rise, with a greater willingness to spend on their oral health.

It is perhaps interesting to note that the government recognises this trend, in raising patients’ NHS charges by 5% this year and another 5% next.

At the same time they hold increases in contract values down to 1% per annum at most, helping them balance the NHS’s shaky books.

The dentist, as an unpaid tax collector, has to explain this to their patients, although they can quite legitimately ‘blame the government’.

The contrast between patients’ charges in England and Scotland is stark.

Have a crown made in Scotland and the charge will be around £80; have the same treatment in England and it counts as a band three UDA costing the patient £233.70 from 1 April, and £244.30 a year later.

http://www.dentistry.co.uk/2016/03/31/what-do-the-latest-dentists-earnings-figures-really-show/

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, RentingForever said:

Clever politics. Looks generous, but in fact will be clawed back by lower tax credits. The workers themselves will see no change to the money in their pocket each month.

It will affect the final salary pension though, nice bonus for any low paid workers just coming up to retirement.

or alternatively you might see it as a kick in the teeth for anyone who already retired in the last few years of zero pay rises.

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19 minutes ago, Hullabaloo82 said:

Any sources to back up that statement regarding the respective average salaries?

For starters how do you define "office worker"? Yes, a temp in a call centre isn' making £30k plus but that's not a good comparison with a qualified nurse. 

Spyguy apparrently thinks £38k after 10 years in the profession is Rockerfeller money. Most people in my profession (accounting) are earning that or close by at the latest year 5 and most likely year 2. ****** it, you can get to partner in some firms in 11 or 12 years. A car salesmen will earn more than that for flogging brand new Audis on PCP contracts to kids who can't afford them. How much education does that job need? 

all these wages are dependent on where they are based.  38k up north is a lot different to down south.  yet i no longer see much difference in wage between location. living costs have a massive difference.  

london should be 40k minimum really not that that gives any kind of comfortable lifestyle.

38k after 10 years :lol:  double that more like 

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34 minutes ago, Hullabaloo82 said:

Any sources to back up that statement regarding the respective average salaries?

For starters how do you define "office worker"? Yes, a temp in a call centre isn' making £30k plus but that's not a good comparison with a qualified nurse. 

Spyguy apparrently thinks £38k after 10 years in the profession is Rockerfeller money. Most people in my profession (accounting) are earning that or close by at the latest year 5 and most likely year 2. ****** it, you can get to partner in some firms in 11 or 12 years. A car salesmen will earn more than that for flogging brand new Audis on PCP contracts to kids who can't afford them. How much education does that job need? 

Uk mean wage is 27k.

 

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34 minutes ago, Hullabaloo82 said:

Any sources to back up that statement regarding the respective average salaries?

For starters how do you define "office worker"? Yes, a temp in a call centre isn' making £30k plus but that's not a good comparison with a qualified nurse. 

Spyguy apparrently thinks £38k after 10 years in the profession is Rockerfeller money. Most people in my profession (accounting) are earning that or close by at the latest year 5 and most likely year 2. ****** it, you can get to partner in some firms in 11 or 12 years. A car salesmen will earn more than that for flogging brand new Audis on PCP contracts to kids who can't afford them. How much education does that job need? 

Car sales men earn fuxall.

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9 minutes ago, longgone said:

all these wages are dependent on where they are based.  38k up north is a lot different to down south.  yet i no longer see much difference in wage between location. living costs have a massive difference.  

london should be 40k minimum really not that that gives any kind of comfortable lifestyle.

38k after 10 years :lol:  double that more like 

This is very much true; nursing, teaching, police etc are relatively well paid jobs in much of the country. How/why anyone does them in London is beyond me, though that also applies to pretty much every private sector job that isn't investment banking. 

The pay offer actually looks fairly reasonable, in line with inflation and more importantly predicted economic growth which is needed to pay the wages. Nurses will be paid the average UK wage within 5 years of qualification (probably sooner with shift allowances and overtime) and have plenty of opportunities to progress.

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32 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Car sales men earn fuxall.

Oh really?

https://www.indeed.co.uk/salaries/Sales-Executive-Salaries-at-Jardine-Motors-Group

Car sales executive average salary £32k at one of the largest firms in the business with dealerships all over the UK. That also doesn't include commission. 

I know for a fact the sales guys at a local dealership within this group are paid £35k plus commission (which is significant; kind of the point of a sales job). 

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27 minutes ago, Tulip_mania said:

This is very much true; nursing, teaching, police etc are relatively well paid jobs in much of the country. How/why anyone does them in London is beyond me, though that also applies to pretty much every private sector job that isn't investment banking. 

The pay offer actually looks fairly reasonable, in line with inflation and more importantly predicted economic growth which is needed to pay the wages. Nurses will be paid the average UK wage within 5 years of qualification (probably sooner with shift allowances and overtime) and have plenty of opportunities to progress.

The police used to get cheap accommodation if not houses given to them via police only type of RTB scheme.  i remember seeing hundreds of average semi`s being sold via auction all over the place. 

lots of london had nurses quarters with small units at rental figures of 20-30 a week.  

not sure what they get  but 30-40k in london does diddle squat now.  private sector like you say is very poorly paid unless you are in the right job in the city with the benefits that go with it. 

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1 minute ago, Hullabaloo82 said:

Oh really?

https://www.indeed.co.uk/salaries/Sales-Executive-Salaries-at-Jardine-Motors-Group

Car sales executive average salary £32k at one of the largest firms in the business with dealerships all over the UK. That also doesn't include commission. 

I know for a fact the sales guys at a local dealership within this group are paid £35k plus commission (which is significant; kind of the point of a sales job). 

35k plus commision!!!

Sales based jobs have a 10k base.

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2 minutes ago, Hullabaloo82 said:

Oh really?

https://www.indeed.co.uk/salaries/Sales-Executive-Salaries-at-Jardine-Motors-Group

Car sales executive average salary £32k at one of the largest firms in the business with dealerships all over the UK. That also doesn't include commission. 

I know for a fact the sales guys at a local dealership within this group are paid £35k plus commission (which is significant; kind of the point of a sales job). 

sell off GAP insurance and paint protection and other useless extra`s and they can double that ;)

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Just now, longgone said:

The police used to get cheap accommodation if not houses given to them via police only type of RTB scheme.  i remember seeing hundreds of average semi`s being sold via auction all over the place. 

lots of london had nurses quarters with small units at rental figures of 20-30 a week.  

not sure what they get  but 30-40k in london does diddle squat now.  private sector like you say is very poorly paid unless you are in the right job in the city with the benefits that go with it. 

I agree on that.

There used to be nyrses halls, offering liw cost accomation.

I believe Labour scrapped them as i used to go out with a nurse in Reading in mid 90s. Her rent was tiny.

 

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1 minute ago, spyguy said:

I agree on that.

There used to be nyrses halls, offering liw cost accomation.

I believe Labour scrapped them as i used to go out with a nurse in Reading in mid 90s. Her rent was tiny.

 

yep i know someone that dated one that worked in the royal free. living in hampstead in the 90`s for £20 a week. just as well she was terrible with money credit card debt maxxed out. i had to explain how the 0% interest deal on credit cards worked and moving the debt every 9 months to pay it down. she was 40 odd then me being 18 :lol:  morons 

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