Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

30% pay rises for NHS workers.


Recommended Posts

33 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Hello Jeremy.....

After 10 years of being a Nurse my friend pulls in 38k + a very good pension.

She does 3 12h shifts + one 8h shift  a week. Plus 2 nights a month.

80% of the time its pretty quiet. Theer is a reason why Nurses tend to being fat.

Her alternative is working 60h in a shop for about 14k. No pension.

Yes, because being a Nurse and working in a shop are really similar.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 554
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

47 minutes ago, Sancho Panza said:

Demand patterns play their part in the problems.

Including immigration.

This cant be true. Every single news story I see on 'NHS pressures' tells me that immigrants only help by working for the NHS.

None of them get sick, or old, or have kids.

You're not telling me these news stories are intentionally leaving these facts out - are you.....:lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, [email protected] Badger said:

Yes, because being a Nurse and working in a shop are really similar.

I think the entire point is they are quite different. However one is paid a lot more than the other. This however is not the impression most people have of our "poor underpaid over worked" nurses.

Which from my own personal experience of nurses I know - is complete fantasy.

A nice new car on PCP, a new Michael Kors handbag - and another trip to New York is the standard fare for nurses I know.

I don't have a problem with any of that BTW. They earn the money = they spend it on what they want. Its the idea they are on the breadline that I have a problem with. Its nonsense.

And to be fair none of the nurses I know pretend that they are. Seems similar to many other 'causes' we see in the UK given much time on media of various types. A very loud, shouty minority decides to speak for the majority. Even when the majority don't agree with them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, ccc said:

I wouldn't say they are overpaid. Its a job I wouldn't want to do but I also would never argue its underpaid.

Pal of mine's burd was on high 20k's low 30'ks [Cant remember exactly] just a few years after qualifying. Decent pension and worked 3 x 12 hour shifts and had the other 4 days off every week to do as she wished. Or take extra shifts for great hourly rates.

She is now being trained as some sort of more skilled district nurse type role. Being paid her full salary with all benefits whilst being put through this course FULL TIME at College.

So she's getting £32k per year to study full time for two years. She's having a blast. And then come out the other end on the high 30'ks and only has to sign up to not leave for two years.

They do a very important job but anyone who thinks that's underpaid must live in some different UK to me.

My daughter is a nurse out in the community.Left uni with zero debts as the NHS paid for the course and she didnt take any loans for living expense,she was very frugal.She will have her house/mortgage paid off by around 32 shes already halfway through paying off a nice 3 bed semi,shes already getting about £28k+ car allowance.She should be part time by 35 for the rest of her life.She needs one more promotion band (i think starts at £32k then goes up) then shel go to two days a week a couple of years after the mortgage is paid off.

Most of the people she works with are very well paid,but have huge mortgages and huge debts.They are mostly terrible with money,but i guess they just think the final salary pension is locked in.(the age you can get it isnt though).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, ccc said:

This cant be true. Every single news story I see on 'NHS pressures' tells me that immigrants only help by working for the NHS.

None of them get sick, or old, or have kids.

You're not telling me these news stories are intentionally leaving these facts out - are you.....:lol:

You wouldn't believe the half of it.

In terms of workers that I see,I'd suggest a lot of nurses and Drs have been recruited from the Commonwealth rather than the EU but that's jsut my own experience of one or two hospitals in the Midlands.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, durhamborn said:

My daughter is a nurse out in the community.Left uni with zero debts as the NHS paid for the course and she didnt take any loans for living expense,she was very frugal.She will have her house/mortgage paid off by around 32 shes already halfway through paying off a nice 3 bed semi,shes already getting about £28k+ car allowance.She should be part time by 35 for the rest of her life.She needs one more promotion band (i think starts at £32k then goes up) then shel go to two days a week a couple of years after the mortgage is paid off.

Most of the people she works with are very well paid,but have huge mortgages and huge debts.They are mostly terrible with money,but i guess they just think the final salary pension is locked in.(the age you can get it isnt though).

Sounds about right. Its the debts that are the issue. Your daughter sounds like she's a sharp one. Most of the nurses I have known of are off their nuts. :D

Great fun though.

Just now, Sancho Panza said:

You wouldn't believe the half of it.

In terms of workers that I see,I'd suggest a lot of nurses and Drs have been recruited from the Commonwealth rather than the EU but that's jsut my own experience of one or two hospitals in the Midlands.

I hope these are magic Dr's from the Commonwealth who never age or get sick !!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Why?

Because they listen to the BS spin of how little Nurses are paid and how long they work.

Seriously. 20 odd yars ago, thier were Nurses leaving to work in shops.

Nurses ages have gone up, a lot.

Shop workers have gone down, a lot.

Seirously, fpr the investment in eucation, which really does not need a degree, Nursing is lucrative.

Nursing doesn't need a degree.Now they've made it mandatory if you want peoople to do it then you are most likely going to need to give them a wage that can pay thier loan off.

Massive unnecessary overeducation.The Uni's teach little of practical value in my expereince.

22 minutes ago, ccc said:

I wouldn't say they are overpaid. Its a job I wouldn't want to do but I also would never argue its underpaid.

Pal of mine's burd was on high 20k's low 30'ks [Cant remember exactly] just a few years after qualifying. Decent pension and worked 3 x 12 hour shifts and had the other 4 days off every week to do as she wished. Or take extra shifts for great hourly rates.

She is now being trained as some sort of more skilled district nurse type role. Being paid her full salary with all benefits whilst being put through this course FULL TIME at College.

So she's getting £32k per year to study full time for two years. She's having a blast. And then come out the other end on the high 30'ks and only has to sign up to not leave for two years.

They do a very important job but anyone who thinks that's underpaid must live in some different UK to me.

Depends where you are and what you do.Some wards are cushty other wards are really busy,lots of stress due to high pt/nurse ratios and irate relatives.

A&E nursing particularly stressful as above,where failure to triage correctly can lead to complaints/investigations/witch hunts.I challenge anyone to eb the same nurse at the end of a 12 hour night shift as they are at the start......

21 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Just the insane over education.

Nursing should go back to 2 years 16-18 at college, followed by 2-3 year mix of work and training.

Qualify at 21.

UK HE sector needs taking round the corner and shot in the head.

Yep

 

Loads of nurses currently working have no degree and the level of care is top drawer.

Possession of a degree is no gurantee of quality in terms of patient care.

Edited by Sancho Panza
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, spyguy said:

Not really.

For the education., Nurses are extremelely well paid. chuck i nthe pension and its lucrative.

Dont need more Nurses - we need to be keeping less people in hospital.

Pay was only a factor in 1/7th of Nurses leaving. Trust me, a Nurse (or a teacher, or a copper) cannot earn anywhere close to what they are on poutside of pubic sector.

Most Nurses leave as they get fed up with the NHS. If the NHS was broken up, monopoly destroyed than there would be the option to work elswhere as a Nurse.

Education isn't the only factor in pay though. Surely a job like nursing also contains compensation for unpleasantness. Maybe a nurse would face a 5-10k pay cut if they left to work in an office, but it's probably less stressful (nobody dies if you make a mistake in an office and there are more fewer unpleasant sights and smells).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, durhamborn said:

My daughter is a nurse out in the community.Left uni with zero debts as the NHS paid for the course and she didnt take any loans for living expense,she was very frugal.She will have her house/mortgage paid off by around 32 shes already halfway through paying off a nice 3 bed semi,shes already getting about £28k+ car allowance.She should be part time by 35 for the rest of her life.She needs one more promotion band (i think starts at £32k then goes up) then shel go to two days a week a couple of years after the mortgage is paid off.

Most of the people she works with are very well paid,but have huge mortgages and huge debts.They are mostly terrible with money,but i guess they just think the final salary pension is locked in.(the age you can get it isnt though).

Sounds like a chip ff the old block

Same with the Bank of England and UK govt re huge debts.Rampant across working age households.

Geogrpahically,the wages go much further up your way.Round Leicester,on a salary like that you're renting a slave box.

Saw a terrace go through the auction the other day-Peterlee- £22k or something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, ccc said:

I think the entire point is they are quite different. However one is paid a lot more than the other. This however is not the impression most people have of our "poor underpaid over worked" nurses.

Which from my own personal experience of nurses I know - is complete fantasy.

A nice new car on PCP, a new Michael Kors handbag - and another trip to New York is the standard fare for nurses I know.

I don't have a problem with any of that BTW. They earn the money = they spend it on what they want. Its the idea they are on the breadline that I have a problem with. Its nonsense.

And to be fair none of the nurses I know pretend that they are. Seems similar to many other 'causes' we see in the UK given much time on media of various types. A very loud, shouty minority decides to speak for the majority. Even when the majority don't agree with them.

A fair post. Especially the handbag and car PCP bit- remarkably accurate.

There are a few I work with who are exactly as you have described - usually the ones in their twenties. What really surprised me is how many of them also spend loads on cosmetic surgery like fillers, Botox and boob jobs, ironically they are good looking before they have it done, they're in their twenties, after all. Their salaries are not enough to pay for all the above. It is definitely credit in one shape or other.

My experience is that they are not overpaid especially if working and living in the south east. Some live within their means others do not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Kosmin said:

Education isn't the only factor in pay though. Surely a job like nursing also contains compensation for unpleasantness. Maybe a nurse would face a 5-10k pay cut if they left to work in an office, but it's probably less stressful (nobody dies if you make a mistake in an office and there are more fewer unpleasant sights and smells).

Good post.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, [email protected] Badger said:

A fair post. Especially the handbag and car PCP bit- remarkably accurate.

There are a few I work with who are exactly as you have described - usually the ones in their twenties. What really surprised me is how many of them also spend loads on cosmetic surgery like fillers, Botox and boob jobs, ironically they are good looking before they have it done, they're in their twenties, after all. Their salaries are not enough to pay for all the above. It is definitely credit in one shape or other.

My experience is that they are not overpaid especially if working and living in the south east. Some live within their means others do not.

newly qualified nurses, like squaddies, are targeted by fiancial servies for car loans and the like - ads in nursing times, flyers on the hospital notice board.

They are targetted as there is a lot of loose cash.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Sancho Panza said:

Nursing doesn't need a degree.Now they've made it mandatory if you want peoople to do it then you are most likely going to need to give them a wage that can pay thier loan off.

Massive unnecessary overeducation.The Uni's teach little of practical value in my expereince.

Depends where you are and what you do.Some wards are cushty other wards are really busy,lots of stress due to high pt/nurse ratios and irate relatives.

A&E nursing particularly stressful as above,where failure to triage correctly can lead to complaints/investigations/witch hunts.I challenge anyone to eb the same nurse at the end of a 12 hour night shift as they are at the start......

Yep

 

Loads of nurses currently working have no degree and the level of care is top drawer.

Possession of a degree is no gurantee of quality in terms of patient care.

No doubt about that. But then these nurses can put the effort into doing whatever it takes to move to another part of the job where the stresses are not the same. The options are there. Tough job - total respect from me. I wouldn't do it. However their pay isn't bad at all. That's my point really.

6 minutes ago, [email protected] Badger said:

A fair post. Especially the handbag and car PCP bit- remarkably accurate.

There are a few I work with who are exactly as you have described - usually the ones in their twenties. What really surprised me is how many of them also spend loads on cosmetic surgery like fillers, Botox and boob jobs, ironically they are good looking before they have it done, they're in their twenties, after all. Their salaries are not enough to pay for all the above. It is definitely credit in one shape or other.

My experience is that they are not overpaid especially if working and living in the south east. Some live within their means others do not.

Yes like most things in the UK - you are in the South East you are screwed no matter what you do. Sad state of affairs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Kosmin said:

Education isn't the only factor in pay though. Surely a job like nursing also contains compensation for unpleasantness. Maybe a nurse would face a 5-10k pay cut if they left to work in an office, but it's probably less stressful (nobody dies if you make a mistake in an office and there are more fewer unpleasant sights and smells).

This is true. But what is also true is many of those who work in offices come out of the end of the day thinking what is the ******ing point of my existence.

There will be many a nurse who would literally be driven insane by having to work in an office environment.

We just need to be smarter as a country and do a bit of forward planning. Point people in the right direction.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, spyguy said:

Or you could run your payroll and staffing in a competent way.

Again, signs of a dysfunctional monopoly.

 

Sorry but what the ****** relevance does payroll have to any of this? Sounds like you've just chucked a vaguely "businessy" type word in there and run with it. 

Hard to run "staffing" well when people are leaving the profession in droves. 

Bottom line, it does all come down to money. Whether it's conditions or pay which is the straw that breaks the camel's back, if pay isn't enough to compensate for the hassle you will have staff shortages. I thought you free market types would understand that? 

Also who are any of us on this site to say whether nurses are overpaid? The fact that they are able to make significantly more as a contractor suggests that they're currently bring paid well under the market rate whatever you think about the job they do. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, ccc said:

No doubt about that. But then these nurses can put the effort into doing whatever it takes to move to another part of the job where the stresses are not the same. The options are there. Tough job - total respect from me. I wouldn't do it. However their pay isn't bad at all. That's my point really.

Yes like most things in the UK - you are in the South East you are screwed no matter what you do. Sad state of affairs.

Very true.

I really like this site and am always learning new stuff from it. I am actually a very long time reader but only joined last year and posted for first time, today.

Anyway, hello to all of you. You have no idea how much you have educatede over the last few years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, [email protected] Badger said:

Very true.

I really like this site and am always learning new stuff from it. I am actually a very long time reader but only joined last year and posted for first time, today.

Anyway, hello to all of you. You have no idea how much you have educatede over the last few years.

Welcome but watch out - there are a few loonies around here. :ph34r::D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Hullabaloo82 said:

Sorry but what the ****** relevance does payroll have to any of this? Sounds like you've just chucked a vaguely "businessy" type word in there and run with it. 

Hard to run "staffing" well when people are leaving the profession in droves. 

Bottom line, it does all come down to money. Whether it's conditions or pay which is the straw that breaks the camel's back, if pay isn't enough to compensate for the hassle you will have staff shortages. I thought you free market types would understand that? 

Also who are any of us on this site to say whether nurses are overpaid? The fact that they are able to make significantly more as a contractor suggests that they're currently bring paid well under the market rate whatever you think about the job they do. 

I mean HR - The NHS is hardly a new org, its been going for ages.

If it cannto manage its staffing very well it needs breaking up.

I didnt say Nurses are overpaid. I said they are well paid for their skill and work level.

Staffing is not a businessy word, is a basic organisation aptitude.

Nurses are not leaving in droves. Nurses are getting old and retiring. Again, hardly something that springs out of nowhere. A quick scan of your books should show wo's going to retire in the next 12 months.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, spyguy said:

Hello Jeremy.....

After 10 years of being a Nurse my friend pulls in 38k + a very good pension.

She does 3 12h shifts + one 8h shift  a week. Plus 2 nights a month.

80% of the time its pretty quiet. Theer is a reason why Nurses tend to being fat.

Her alternative is working 60h in a shop for about 14k. No pension.

This isn't how marginal pricing works. Even if most nurses have little opportunity to earn much elsewhere, they will all be offered higher wages to entice those who do have higher opportunity costs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Here is the simplistic reasoning in the case of monopsonistic employer like the NHS:

The employer wants to pay just enough to keep the employee. The employee finds out how much the employee can earn elsewhere and pays slightly more.

 

Edited by Kosmin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, ccc said:

This cant be true. Every single news story I see on 'NHS pressures' tells me that immigrants only help by working for the NHS.

None of them get sick, or old, or have kids.

You're not telling me these news stories are intentionally leaving these facts out - are you.....:lol:

The point isn't that immigrants never get sick, it's that the indigenous British population don't train as nurses.

And why don't they?

Well I think low salaries relative to the work involved is one key reason.  If you're having problems recruiting in any business taking a look at the pay being offered is surely the first thing to do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.





×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.