Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

30% pay rises for NHS workers.


Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, spyguy said:

Its not so much to recover costs. Its to stop people getting in the system.

Exactly.  Some of these misplaced and silly arguments make you despair.  All gooey non fact based I'm a flower people will die incoherent blabbling luvvy rubbish.  Makes you despair.  Like talking to kids.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 554
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

5 hours ago, GregBowman said:

Firstly surely the quote was evidence at least of a way of thinking. But also agree with your point that its chicken feed.

So lets get to to the nitty gritty:

Get rid of the phony market

Slash management

Stop all selective surgery unless children (IVF obviously not required)

Credit card or authenticated NI number at point of attendance unless life and death

Charge for missed appointments 

Charged for fake 999 calls ie I have a hangover

No prescriptions for over the counter medicines such as Asprin etc

Introduce top up care charging so I can have private health care with money going to the NHS not an insurance company

I am not talking about withdrawing care in a life or death scenario, its the low cost high volume incidents where money and is wasted. 

That'll be good start.  Ideally plus some sort of insurance element so those who fail to look after themselves pay more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 29/03/2018 at 11:15 PM, Hullabaloo82 said:

I'm suggesting nothing of the sort. I'm just pointing out that if a guy who emigrated here back in the 1970s at a point where a reciprocal arrangement was in place between the UK and various commonwealth governments and would have been eligible for treatment until last year (and still would be if he'd bothered to apply for a passport) can't get it, it kind of flies in the face of the "health tourism" scare, particularly when you consider that NHS England brought in specific arrangements to counter this last year. 

I would love to see some actual stats about Nigerian mothers flying in to give birth that aren't just from hysterical Express articles about that lady who had triplets. 

The truth is, you will never be able to get rid of that completely; it's a cost of doing business for the nhs and something we citizens have to accept for the benefit of having a free at the point of use emergency care service. The alternative is a system where doctors are rummaging through your pockets for a passport or a credit card before treating you at a car crash site or similar. I know which system I prefer. 

 

I think you will find everyone with a sane counter view to you agrees this would be a life and death situation and so excluded - typical soft left ****** I am afraid 

Maternity tourism was rife from the US in the sixties and today it seems https://www.refinery29.com/2016/08/120148/socialized-medicine-giving-birth-experience-uk?bucketed=true

Thats an educated woman from the states - so of course your brothers and sisters from the third world wouldn’t do it ......

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 30/03/2018 at 9:52 AM, ccc said:

 

I get the feeling that you - like many other people - have a serious chip on their shoulder about people in the UK having had enough of how much a piss take this country has become. 

Well too bad. 

To add CCC that’s Brits of all colours, races and ages 

what ever so trendy right on young left wingers ( the young is an assumption about HB but your naivety and world history ignorance would suggest that - evidence as you keep shouting for) is that us immigrants don’t have the dewy eyed rose tinted spec view of other cultures as many left wingers do 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, GregBowman said:

I think you will find everyone with a sane counter view to you agrees this would be a life and death situation and so excluded - typical soft left ****** I am afraid 

Maternity tourism was rife from the US in the sixties and today it seems https://www.refinery29.com/2016/08/120148/socialized-medicine-giving-birth-experience-uk?bucketed=true

Thats an educated woman from the states - so of course your brothers and sisters from the third world wouldn’t do it ......

 

But Greg, in your recent posts all you've done is describe the system we already have. 

Right now, all non emergency services are prepaid unless you can prove British nationality or indefinite leave to remain. This was my entire point. 

Even when this system wasn't in place expenditure not billed to foreign governments accounted for a fraction of a percentage of total expenditure, far from the crippling crisis you make out and something which was actually accounted for when the system was actually set up and considered a price worth paying to preserve universality of access. 

"3rd world brothers and sisters"? Seriously just listen to yourself. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Hullabaloo82 said:

Right now, all non emergency services are prepaid unless you can prove British nationality or indefinite leave to remain. This was my entire point. 

And it’s still not true.

2 hours ago, Hullabaloo82 said:

Even when this system wasn't in place expenditure not billed to foreign governments accounted for a fraction of a percentage of total expenditure, far from the crippling crisis you make out and something which was actually accounted for when the system was actually set up and considered a price worth paying to preserve universality of access. 

It wasn’t ‘accounted for’.  There was no accounting.

Peddling these myths doesn’t help the NHS.  It makes it more likely to collapse.

Edited by Will!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎29‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 6:51 PM, Will! said:

Since you ask, these are the current vacancies at one of my former employers:

http://www.jobs.nhs.uk/xi/search_vacancy/c9bb6fb0384cde3d0497d13dd19f6d89/?action=search&master_id=121075

and here are some a bit higher up the tree at NHS 'Improvement'

http://www.jobs.nhs.uk/xi/search_vacancy/a02937c7c0fa6c0bdd168c41b1e76488/?action=search&master_id=127594

We have to note that the current vacancy list may not be representative of the population already in post.

However, it is notable the highest salaries are not for those directly involved in patient care and supporting roles.

Also not included (presumably) are contractors (i.e. not direct NHS employees).  Since this is the way things are going, this vacancy list may not give us the full picture.  Employees in Virgin Healthcare are effectively paid by the taxpayer but their direct employer is Virgin Healthcare.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎01‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 7:19 PM, Fence said:

That'll be good start.  Ideally plus some sort of insurance element so those who fail to look after themselves pay more.

That's a minefield though.

How do you define looking after yourself?  Health advice turns around to the opposite every few years.

Also, it would mean the victim sections of society paying more.  Never going to happen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 02/04/2018 at 9:20 AM, GregBowman said:

I think you will find everyone with a sane counter view to you agrees this would be a life and death situation and so excluded - typical soft left ****** I am afraid 

Maternity tourism was rife from the US in the sixties and today it seems https://www.refinery29.com/2016/08/120148/socialized-medicine-giving-birth-experience-uk?bucketed=true

Thats an educated woman from the states - so of course your brothers and sisters from the third world wouldn’t do it ......

 

Ex GF broke her back on a climbing trip in the US. She was immobilised before any exams to ensure no further movement could rupture her spinal nerve. The accountant made her sign a paper before they would treat her, which was an endangering move.

Side note, she is fine and fully mobile.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is from 2012, so it may not apply anymore.  However I found this bit rather startling:

<<The guidance states that an overseas visitor can register with a GP provided that he or she is in the area for more than 24 hours. This applies whether or not the visitor is lawfully in the UK. A GP is paid £64 per head for each patient on his register; there is no means of knowing whether a visitor has subsequently left the UK. (Edit by kzb:  the £64 will be £85 for 2018/19)

The guidance further states that registration and a doctor’s appointment should not be withheld because the patient does not have proof of residence or personal identification and that past or present payment of taxes or National Insurance is not to be taken into account.>>

https://news.migrationwatch.org.uk/2012/11/27/rule-change-opens-nhs-to-the-world-a-recent-government-decision-threatens-to-turn-the-nhs-into-the-world-health-service

Is it conceivable that GP's have many persons on their lists who are not even in the country any more !?

Edited by kzb
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What is the UK's malfunction ? :o

It's like somebody pressed the UK "Extremely slow motion self destruct" button about 20 years ago and is sitting with their white cat on their lap cackling away. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure if this has already been posted but this is the proposed new pay scales:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5a857514bff200aa36889e06/t/5ab28e16575d1ffb4cdd0c51/1521651255969/Pay+journey+tracker+-+manual+version2.pdf

people at the bottom to mid of the pay bands will do fairly well over the next few years. Anyone near the top of a band may feel a bit aggreived as colleagues with less service catch them up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, CanAffordWontPay said:

Not sure if this has already been posted but this is the proposed new pay scales:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5a857514bff200aa36889e06/t/5ab28e16575d1ffb4cdd0c51/1521651255969/Pay+journey+tracker+-+manual+version2.pdf

people at the bottom to mid of the pay bands will do fairly well over the next few years. Anyone near the top of a band may feel a bit aggreived as colleagues with less service catch them up.

For the lower grades, they have completely done away with incremental progression.

I don't really agree with this (although I do not know what is the full plan, maybe they aim to promote people if they perform well instead).

For the grades higher than this they have reduced the incremental progression but not removed it completely.  Possibly this is to help recruitement, because presumably most new starters start at the bottom of a grade band ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, kzb said:

For the lower grades, they have completely done away with incremental progression.

I don't really agree with this (although I do not know what is the full plan, maybe they aim to promote people if they perform well instead).

For the grades higher than this they have reduced the incremental progression but not removed it completely.  Possibly this is to help recruitement, because presumably most new starters start at the bottom of a grade band ?

For new starters without any experiance this is definetely the case. People with experiance (gained outside of NHS) it is trust dependent. From the 5 or 6 trusts/hospitals that my partner was offered jobs with, only one offered a straight salary match. Most only offered the bottom increment and didn't want to discuss it. Since being in the NHS, she recently was offered a job with a different trust, they would only give an increment for each full year of experiance. Seems to me, for the most part talent is secondary to budget, little is up for a discussion/negtioation and they'll take whoever will do the job.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, CanAffordWontPay said:

For new starters without any experiance this is definetely the case. People with experiance (gained outside of NHS) it is trust dependent. From the 5 or 6 trusts/hospitals that my partner was offered jobs with, only one offered a straight salary match. Most only offered the bottom increment and didn't want to discuss it. Since being in the NHS, she recently was offered a job with a different trust, they would only give an increment for each full year of experiance. Seems to me, for the most part talent is secondary to budget, little is up for a discussion/negtioation and they'll take whoever will do the job.

It could be bad tactics.  Short termism again.

For those not already at the top of their band, there is the initial feel good factor of a large payrise for the next 2 or 3 years.

But very soon a lot of staff are going to find themselves on the top increment of their band.  This only takes  3 or 4 years in this new structure.   After that, there is nowhere to go except the much smaller per cent pay rises awarded as the pay settlement that year.

That is when the feel good factor will turn into frustration.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, the adventure begins for me today again. Did not seem too painful (I`ve signed  on)

Next step is too make a cv then try for a job at the NHS.....half hearted is me. According too the woman it will take a couple of weeks to appeal against  being kicked out of esa.....probably longer.

Seems to me to be you sign on for one week and then sign for 2 consecutive weeks from then on. 

Anyway, the weather smiled on me today..

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 02/04/2018 at 7:24 AM, Will! said:

And it’s still not true.

It wasn’t ‘accounted for’.  There was no accounting.

Peddling these myths doesn’t help the NHS.  It makes it more likely to collapse.

Not sure what you mean by "no accounting" but literally raising invoices for these procedures as opposed to eating the costs reduces the NHS deficit in the short term (until they get written off again years down the line but that's tommorow's problem).

One of a number of accounting measures employed by NHS England to try to reduce the severity of the departmental slap on the wrist it gets on an annual basis when it has to report on its deficit. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 05/04/2018 at 10:18 AM, GregBowman said:

Your right stupid comment and actually doesn't reflect my thoughts. I have listened to myself and learnt

Have a virtual "thumbs up". 

I appreciate that these are emotive topics and it's sometimes possible to get carried away - something I'm guilty of myself also.

We often come at things from a different angle but I do appreciate your point if view  (and others) even if it doesn't always seem that wsy. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

err , the NHS costs money, privately funded systems such as in the US are a nightmare for all but the wealthy.

 

A health service is never going to be efficient, its about looking after people, its not in deficit its underfunded.

House prices, stock markets , bitcoin, Russian spies don't really matter when you're seriously ill.

 

I learned nurses are on band 5, wth the new fantastic paydeal it amounts to f.a. This country needs to get things in perspective and stop being such greedy grabbing little .... things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.




×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.