spyguy Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Hullabaloo82 said: Is there an echo in here or something? I seem to remember posting a link to these stats some while ago which you completely ignored. In the interim you've repeated your claim that it was 1/40 then only climbed down from that position when a third poster corrected you. .... Yep. I was wrong. I rechecked. I have have been self flagellating ever since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 34 minutes ago, kzb said: If you have a stable or growing employee base paying contributions there should be little problem with a DB pension scheme. You just have to get the accrual and contribution rates sorted. The problem comes if you have a shrinking population of contributors. Is more complex then that. What you have is a PAYG scheme offering a DB benefit. Things that can fux up. - Increases in life expectancy. These have been huge. I had one set of GPs who died pretty much on reaching 65. The other set lived til their 90s. UK life expectancy has gone up 10 years in about 40. - Changes in contributing base. What if number of kids in school change? My old priamry has 50% of the kids it had when I was there. Mind you, there's ~25% more teachers, And 4 TAs. - Generoisty with other peoples money. Letting 'difficult' teachers retire rather than being sacked. Way too frequent. Lead swinging - getting retired earl on medical grounds then not dying. I do have a fix for this - early retirement should be capped at 10 years payout. Spouses benefit - We are please to announcement the marriage of Fred Moore, 82, ex English teacher of Fulchester Comp, to PingPong, 24, of Thailand.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 11 minutes ago, malk said: Teachers can't do this though. Their pensions start at 65 so if they retire before then they need to find the cash from somewhere else to plug the gap or, from 60 iirc, can take their pensions early for a pretty significant hit to the annual amount. That was the comparison I was making. They put in about £200k worth (at 3% interest, much more with a higher return) and the rest comes from the employer contribution which, to me, seems entirely reasonable. What kinds of contributions to private sector employers normally make? Is it less than 1:1? I'm highjacking the thread but the easy solution to pensions is just to have an earnings related state pension. I thinkthats changed too. It did ued to be a fixed age - 65. Now its the Normal retirement age i.e. if he age goes up (or down!) then thats when you retire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 32 minutes ago, ccc said: Its 16.8% - Malk noted above. Anyway we are talking about the public sector here. So its not even really an 'employer' contribution. Its a contribution from other taxpayers working in the private sector. Depends how you look at it. In theory the employers contribution would be available to pay higher salaries instead. The state pension is paid from the NI fund, which, contrary to popular belief, is a separate fund to taxation and is also in surplus. It's a current account with workers paying in and pensioners taking out. All you have to do is balance the income and outgoings. So the unfunded public sector pensions are really just like the NI fund. The beauty is, there are no parasites making money out of it along the way (OK aside from the admin). ALL pensions ultimately depend on the productivity of the working age population paying for the oldies. Whichever is the mechanism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 18 minutes ago, spyguy said: Is more complex then that. Things that can fux up. Well OK you have to get a grip on things that can fux up. Tighten up on these things, that's all. Then what is problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, kzb said: Well OK you have to get a grip on things that can fux up. Tighten up on these things, that's all. Then what is problem? Ahh .... but then you have Pols playing to political bases, be it Brown doubling GPs salaries, or the Cons and the Police. Pension entitlement needs to be removed from political control. Pension benefits need to be funded when the benefit occurs i.e. the same year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 1 minute ago, spyguy said: Ahh .... but then you have Pols playing to political bases, be it Brown doubling GPs salaries, or the Cons and the Police. Pension entitlement needs to be removed from political control. Pension benefits need to be funded when the benefit occurs i.e. the same year. If the contributors have their salaries doubled, it is happy days for the pension fund. In fact, it is reasonable to assume that contributors' salaries will gradually increase in real terms. This should be true in a growing economy (which apparently we have). This further relieves pressure on the pension fund. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straw Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Talking about full time good earnings for nurses, doesn't the relatively good money mean that lots of nurses work part time? Being majority female, childcare, higher-earning partner maybe, and importantly handling a heavy workload. Working f-t in such a stressful job could mean burnout, high sickness rates, and is unsustainable. Just to balance the claims that nurses are living the high-life, I think there is a more truthful version of long stressful hours leading to or coupled with existing unhealthy lifestyles and being worn-out quickly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 9 hours ago, straw said: Talking about full time good earnings for nurses, doesn't the relatively good money mean that lots of nurses work part time? Being majority female, childcare, higher-earning partner maybe, and importantly handling a heavy workload. Working f-t in such a stressful job could mean burnout, high sickness rates, and is unsustainable. Just to balance the claims that nurses are living the high-life, I think there is a more truthful version of long stressful hours leading to or coupled with existing unhealthy lifestyles and being worn-out quickly? Not really. You always get the 'Ive just worked a 12h shift'. which most people go 12 x 5. Its not the case. Its 12 x 3 and your contract hours are done. The shifts are rarely stressful. Again, day shifts see the HCA do most do the running around. Night shifts are normally pretty easy - snooze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyblueeyes Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 2 hours ago, spyguy said: Not really. You always get the 'Ive just worked a 12h shift'. which most people go 12 x 5. Its not the case. Its 12 x 3 and your contract hours are done. The shifts are rarely stressful. Again, day shifts see the HCA do most do the running around. Night shifts are normally pretty easy - snooze. What Is an Internet 'Troll'? An internet 'troll' is an abusive or obnoxious person who purposely seeks to get a rise out of others, either online or in real life. A troll will use shock value to promote arguments in conversations, commonly in public online discussions. Named after the wicked troll creatures of children's tales, an internet troll is someone who stirs up drama and abuses their online anonymity by purposely sowing hatred, bigotry, racism, mysogyny, or just simple bickering between others. Trolls like a big audience, so they frequent blog sites, news sites, discussion forums, and game chat. Trolls thrive in any environment where they are allowed to make public comments. Serious trolls are immune to criticism and logical arguments. True trolls cannot be reasoned with, regardless of how sound your logical argument is. Serious trolls do not feel remorse like you and me. They have sociopathic tendencies, and accordingly, they delight in other people having hurt feelings. Trolls, in general, consider themselves separate from the social order. Trolls do not abide by etiquette or the rules of common courtesy. Trolls consider themselves above social responsibility. Trolls gain energy by you insulting them. Trolls gain energy when others get angry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tw@t Badger Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 2 hours ago, spyguy said: Not really. You always get the 'Ive just worked a 12h shift'. which most people go 12 x 5. Its not the case. Its 12 x 3 and your contract hours are done. The shifts are rarely stressful. Again, day shifts see the HCA do most do the running around. Night shifts are normally pretty easy - snooze. I used to be a nurse. I gave it up cos it was such an easy job. Loads of money for doing f'all. Piece of piss. My conscience would not allow me to keep raking-in all that dosh whilst getting a full 8-hours sleep every night-shift. All of the units I worked on were so over-staffed that we used to draw straws to see who could go to the pub for a few hours. Yeah, spyguy is bang on the money with their analysis and I want to hear more. Spyguy definitely makes every day a school day. Such insight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Jesus. https://www.rcn.org.uk/employment-and-pay/nhs-conditions-of-employment 'The standard full-time working week for NHS staff is 37.5 hours. Overtime and annual leave entitlements are also standardised ' Anyone doing 3 12h shifts will have nailed their contracted hours. My nurse friend does 3 12h plus 4h. There are pros and cons of being a nurse. Working 5 x 12h is not one of them. Or working unpaid hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
council dweller Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 (edited) Just got a letter yesterday from the department of work and pensions saying that my ESA will be stopped . So it looks like I`ll be heading off to the JC before landing myself a cozy little NHS job. Cleaning , or feeding , trolley pushing will do. BTW, I live near a massive hospital . Wish me luck people... Edited March 24, 2018 by council dweller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashmonitor Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 20 minutes ago, council dweller said: Just got a letter yesterday from the department of work and pensions saying that my ESA will be stopped . So it looks like I`ll be heading off to the JS before landing myself a cozy little NHS job. Cleaning , or feeding , trolley pushing will do. BTW, I live near a massive hospital . Wish me luck people... Should be ok, plenty of migrant cleaners etc. Will put the theory that we haven't got enough indigenous workers into question if it turns out there are no jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
council dweller Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Thanks Crash.... Our local hospital employs over 10,000 people....maybe room for one more . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick73 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 A nurse earing £22k pa has a potential salary increase to £28.6k pa... sorry politians still not enough... the average salary for a minimum life style is approx £60k... percentage headlines are no match for an actual take home pay packet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debtlessmanc Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 39 minutes ago, maverick73 said: A nurse earing £22k pa has a potential salary increase to £28.6k pa... sorry politians still not enough... the average salary for a minimum life style is approx £60k... percentage headlines are no match for an actual take home pay packet! Satire? How on earth could the country afford that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 3 hours ago, council dweller said: Just got a letter yesterday from the department of work and pensions saying that my ESA will be stopped . So it looks like I`ll be heading off to the JC before landing myself a cozy little NHS job. Cleaning , or feeding , trolley pushing will do. BTW, I live near a massive hospital . Wish me luck people... Best of luck......I know of someone who regularly helps in their local hospital voluntary, pushing people in wheelchairs from one dept to another, taking notes/docs from one dept to the next.....someone told them they shouldn't be doing it for free, doing someone out of a job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick73 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 2 hours ago, debtlessmanc said: Satire? How on earth could the country afford that? All the left over electric credit from QE... has to go somewhere to keep the economy flowing ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
council dweller Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Thanks Winkie,. Yes there do seem to be plenty of easy jobs eg helping get people from ambulance to residences / serving tea and coffee...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disenfranchised Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 On 23/03/2018 at 9:35 AM, spyguy said: PPI is hardly a low term career is it? Shell be back on NMW in 12 months time. Its a hort term buch of vulture/diots. Calling other HPCers families idiots and vultures... some really brave internet talk there big man. I bet your keyboard is smoking. How is somebody working for a bank managing compensation claims a 'vulture' ? Are you some sort of 17 year old Marxist? PPI isn't a long term career, but it was a 4 year one for her contracting sticking thousands into long term saving every year. She is now working locally as a permanent employee in pensions earning £27k which is not exactly NMW is it. You sound like a bitter little **** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopGun Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 15 hours ago, debtlessmanc said: Satire? How on earth could the country afford that? I think that’s the point. How can anyone afford to live after decades of real term wage cuts (outside of the boardroom)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 On 24/03/2018 at 10:36 AM, spyguy said: Jesus. https://www.rcn.org.uk/employment-and-pay/nhs-conditions-of-employment 'The standard full-time working week for NHS staff is 37.5 hours. Overtime and annual leave entitlements are also standardised ' Anyone doing 3 12h shifts will have nailed their contracted hours. My nurse friend does 3 12h plus 4h. There are pros and cons of being a nurse. Working 5 x 12h is not one of them. Or working unpaid hours. My wife works 2 hours per shift unpaid, every shift. But what does she know, she's a Band 6 Nurse and you live in a caravan in a field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlooker Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 32 minutes ago, Peter Hun said: My wife works 2 hours per shift unpaid, every shift. But what does she know, she's a Band 6 Nurse and you live in a caravan in a field. How come? Does she do voluntary work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopGun Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 18 minutes ago, onlooker said: How come? Does she do voluntary work? It's part of the course. 51 minutes ago, Peter Hun said: My wife works 2 hours per shift unpaid, every shift. But what does she know, she's a Band 6 Nurse and you live in a caravan in a field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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