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8 hours ago, Riedquat said:

There's a gun being held to everyone's head, and you're criticising the people reacting to it rather than the one holding it. That's the robber's "there was only violence because he resisted" argument. Now backing down in the face of that and letting the criminals have their way may be the wise choice, the lesser evil, but defending the criminals is just sickening.

An unfounded, flimsy pretext - then they should be encouraging everyone to go and see for themselves, no control, no stage management. Just think how that would take the wind out of the sails of anyone opposing Russia and Syria. The situation on the ground in Syria is a mess but the parties claiming to be set up do not appear terribly keen on clarifying the situation. There are genuine grounds for suspicion - and you'll never get much more in international affairs where there's no co-operation. There do not appear to be any genuine attempts by those under suspicion to recognise that and reduce it.

Who's holding a gun to everybody's head?

If Putin's Russia is the gangster state that you believe it to be then why is the UK doing business with it at all? Why has BP been allowed to get into bed with Rosneft and Gazprom, Russia's biggest companies by value in which Putin is known to have a huge personal stake? Why has so much Russian money been allowed to accumulate in the London property market? Why are the England football team and supporters being encouraged to travel to Russia for the World Cup in June? And if the UK govt has had evidence of the Russians manufacturing nerve agents in its possession for the last ten years, as Boris Johnson claims, then why was this not communicated to the OPCW prior to the Skripal affair?

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2 hours ago, Peter Hun said:

This is about the chemical attack on the UK, you are mixing it up with the chemical attack in Syria. 

Then i know its difficult to keep track of Russia crimes, what with the invasion  of Ukraine. The gas supply black mail of Eastern and the Baltic states. The kidnapping from Latvia of a Border guard, the interference in the US and several other countries election. The invasion and occupation of Georgia. The occupation of part of Moldova. The direct threat of nuclear attack on Denmark and Poland if they did follow Russia instruction. The violation of Scandinavian and Baltic air and naval space by the Russian Military. The downing of MH-17. Funding extreme right wing parties across Euro, the Nuclear poisoning of Litvinenko. 

That's just off the top of my head.

 

 

The UK govt is trying to conflate the Skripal affair with Syria with its frankly ludicrous claim that a 'chilling' message was intercepted between Syria and Moscow on the day the Skripal's were poisoned: 'The package has been delivered'. :lol:

So now the greatest taskforce since the Gulf War has been assembled, but what is it they are tasked with doing? Destroying the tatty remnants of Assad's airforce. The Russians have plenty of secondhand replacements to sell him. Demolishing Syria's 'stockpiles' of chlorine? Quickly replenished since all you need to produce chlorine is salt water and electricity. But since chlorine is used extensively throughout the Middle East as a water sanitiser Syria will be struck down by an epidemic of dysentry first. So much for the humanitarian aid.

The best result we can hope for is a few more holes in the ground and no British, Russian or Iranian casualties. But if WWIII does break out then at least the goons at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office won't have to worry about deleting their incriminating tweets, there'll be nobody left alive to read them.

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3 hours ago, Peter Hun said:

This is about the chemical attack on the UK, you are mixing it up with the chemical attack in Syria.

I was lumping them all together for the general discussion and he was responding to me (I think, without checking back on the quotes).

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6 hours ago, zugzwang said:

So now the greatest taskforce since the Gulf War has been assembled, but what is it they are tasked with doing?

Agree with you, blowing up rubble is a pointless persuit. 

However one result of Trump's threats is the Syrian airforce is not flying.  Can't be a bad thing. 

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7 minutes ago, Peter Hun said:

Agree with you, blowing up rubble is a pointless persuit. 

However one result of Trump's threats is the Syrian airforce is not flying.  Can't be a bad thing. 

Anything that de-escalates a conflict which has already claimed the lives of 400,000 civilians has to be good news.

But where are May, Johnson and the Defence Secretary? We're about to go to war and the only one facing the cameras and answering questions is Jeremy Corbyn! It simply beggars belief.

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On 4/12/2018 at 7:17 PM, CommyTooper said:

This gets beyond comic. Now the uk ambassador to Syria doesn’t believe Douma was hit with chemical weapons.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Ford_(diplomat)

Retiring from the Diplomatic Service in 2006, he became Representative of the Commissioner-General of UNRWA in the Arab world.[5]

In February 2017, Ford became a Director of the British Syrian Society, alongside President Assad's father-in-law Dr Fawaz Akhras.[6]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fawaz_Akhras

According to The Guardian, Akhras used a private email channel to the Syrian leader to offer advice on how the government should spin its suppression of the uprising, including how best to rebut apparent video footage of Syrian forces torturing children.[6]

 

https://www.bupacromwellhospital.com/find-a-doctor/find-a-consultant/fawaz-akhras/

Edited by Bruce Banner

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41 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

The Guardian,

That's all I need to know.

Anyone who can't work out the lies our own government/media is spinning deserves the war they want.

Not in my name.

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Looking more and more as if this attack was carried out by US/UK intelligence as a deliberate false-flag/provocation. Agent used was of NATO production/service:

 

Independent Swiss Lab Says 'BZ Toxin' Used In Skripal Poisoning; US/UK-Produced, Not Russian

Independent Swiss state Spiez lab: the substance used on Sergei Skripal was an agent called BZ, which was never produced in Russia, but was in service in the US, UK, and other NATO states.

On a side note, the Swiss lab is also an internationally recognized center of excellence in the field of the nuclear, biological, and chemical protection and is one of the five centers permanently authorized by the OPCW.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-14/independent-swiss-lab-says-bz-toxin-used-skripal-poisoning-usuk-produced-not

Edited by Errol

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On 13/04/2018 at 5:35 PM, Peter Hun said:

Not going to much of a war. Don't get excited.

It was nice to see the Prime Minister again after her latest disappearing act. In due course I'm sure she'll tell us whether we've won or lost.

But aren't the Syrian troops climbing through the ruins of those bombed out chemical weapons factories taking terrible risks with their health? Not so much as a gas mask between them.

The Russians, Syrians and Iranians must be laughing their cocks off.

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36 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

But aren't the Syrian troops climbing through the ruins of those bombed out chemical weapons factories taking terrible risks with their health? Not so much as a gas mask between them.

I thought nothing was destroyed by missiles because the Syrians shot them down and anyway, there are no chemical facilities on the target list?

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27 minutes ago, Peter Hun said:

I thought nothing was destroyed by missiles because the Syrians shot them down and anyway, there are no chemical facilities on the target list?

There was lot of destruction, BBC reported in the morning. BBC 9:48

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6 hours ago, jonb2 said:

From the link:

'...Syrian Civil Defence, also known as the White Helmets, reported that a chemical attack at 1945 on the 7th April killed more than 43 people and injured over 500. They reported the dead victims displayed signs of cyanosis (a bluish discolouration of the skin), excessive oral foaming and corneal burns. Six living casualties were reported to have pinpoint pupils and convulsions....'

You do understand that the White Helmets are Al Nusra don't you? Don't you?

 

 

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12 hours ago, Maynardgravy said:

From the link:

'...Syrian Civil Defence, also known as the White Helmets, reported that a chemical attack at 1945 on the 7th April killed more than 43 people and injured over 500. They reported the dead victims displayed signs of cyanosis (a bluish discolouration of the skin), excessive oral foaming and corneal burns. Six living casualties were reported to have pinpoint pupils and convulsions....'

You do understand that the White Helmets are Al Nusra don't you? Don't you?

 

 

You do realise that tin foil helmets are not as good as white ones Gravy?

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Simply calling everyone who questions the government narrative a "Russian Troll" is a clear sign that we already live in a fascist society.

Is this really the world you want to live in?

Are you that naive to believe the outlandish and contradictory claims our government makes?

 

No wonder that we still haven't had a house price crash if even HPC.co.uk is full of sheeple who simply believe what the corporate and state propaganda media tell them... :rolleyes:

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I am deeply suspicious of the motives behind any action this government takes. However, anyone who automatically rejects anything the government says as lies is a fool and this thread seems to have more than it's fair share of those!

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45 minutes ago, The Eagle said:

Are you that naive to believe the outlandish and contradictory claims our government makes?

Apply that elsewhere - why do you not find other claims as outlandish and implausible if not more?

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4 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

I am deeply suspicious of the motives behind any action this government takes. However, anyone who automatically rejects anything the government says as lies is a fool and this thread seems to have more than it's fair share of those!

+1

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4 hours ago, Riedquat said:

Apply that elsewhere - why do you not find other claims as outlandish and implausible if not more?

+1

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21 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

I am deeply suspicious of the motives behind any action this government takes. However, anyone who automatically rejects anything the government says as lies is a fool and this thread seems to have more than it's fair share of those!

I reject anything my government tells me that leads to war unless they can prove it. Any other course of action is foolish.

 

On 15/04/2018 at 10:37 AM, jonb2 said:

You do realise that tin foil helmets are not as good as white ones Gravy?

And that's all you have. Pointless jibes.

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8 minutes ago, Maynardgravy said:

I reject anything my government tells me that leads to war unless they can prove it. Any other course of action is foolish.

 

And that's all you have. Pointless jibes.

So you would believe Russia?

It's all very well not believing our government, probably wise in most cases - but being non-critical of the enemy and siding with their propaganda just makes you a useful idiot.

The Tories and the Russians are much closer than you may want. It's all a game. Why have the US done worthwhile economic sanctions and we have not?

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/the-russian-spy-who-went-to-all-the-tory-parties/

I suggest you make your own mind up and apply critical thinking. Russia is a master of misinformation and rather than form your own opinion - you've swallowed it hook, line and sinker.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/11/russian-tv-thrown-salisbury-hospital-trying-undermine-spy-assassination/

 

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