Another Russian Spy?

[DiggerUK]

4 hours ago, Goat said:

I think you'll find that under English law murderers and attempted murderers don't have the right to interview their victims.

I think you will find that those murdered also have the right to silence.......not a lot of people know that..._

[zugzwang]

On 27/07/2018 at 11:01, Goat said:

I think you'll find that under English law murderers and attempted murderers don't have the right to interview their victims.

We were privileged to witness Charlie Rowley's testimony, albeit highly stage-managed, and Julia Skripal made a brief appearance with a prominent tracheotomy scar reading from a prepared script; so why haven't we seen/heard from Sergei Skripal, or mysterious CID supercop Nick Bailey? Very odd. Like so much else about this extraordinary affair.

[Riedquat]

12 hours ago, zugzwang said:

We were privileged to witness Charlie Rowley's testimony, albeit highly stage-managed, and Julia Skripal made a brief appearance with a prominent tracheotomy scar reading from a prepared script; so why haven't we seen/heard from Sergei Skripal, or mysterious CID supercop Nick Bailey? Very odd. Like so much else about this extraordinary affair.

Maybe they don't want to appear in the public eye. Can't say I'd be enthusiastic about it in their place.

[Errol]

Apparently Salisbury is the epicentre of many 'accidents':

 

Explosion at Salisbury military hardware factory kills one

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/aug/10/explosion-at-salisbury-military-hardware-factory-kills-one

[Peter Hun]

2 hours ago, Errol said:

Apparently Salisbury is the epicentre of many 'accidents':

 

Explosion at Salisbury military hardware factory kills one

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/aug/10/explosion-at-salisbury-military-hardware-factory-kills-one

And Russia is full of Russians.

If you knew anything about this country you wouldn't make such idiotic comments.

[Peter Hun]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salisbury_Plain#Defence_Training_Estate_(DTE_SP)

[Errol]

Craig Murray on the Skripal affair again. Interesting to note that the BBC journalist Mark Urban was in the Royal Tank Regiment together with Skripal’s MI6 handler, Pablo Miller, who also lived in Salisbury. What a nice coincidence.

 

Skripals – When the BBC Hide the Truth

On 8 July 2018 a lady named Kirsty Eccles asked what, in its enormous ramifications, historians may one day see as the most important Freedom of Information request ever made. The rest of this post requires extremely close and careful reading, and some thought, for you to understand that claim.

 

Dear British Broadcasting Corporation,

1: Why did BBC Newsnight correspondent Mark Urban keep secret from the licence payers that he had been having meetings with Sergei Skripal only last summer.

2: When did the BBC know this?

3: Please provide me with copies of all correspondence between yourselves and Mark Urban on the subject of Sergei Skripal.

Yours faithfully,

Kirsty Eccles

 

The ramifications of this little request are enormous as they cut right to the heart of the ramping up of the new Cold War, of the BBC’s propaganda collusion with the security services to that end, and of the concoction of fraudulent evidence in the Steele “dirty dossier”. This also of course casts a strong light on more plausible motives for an attack on the Skripals.

 

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/08/skripals-when-the-bbc-hide-the-truth/

[DiggerUK]

"Due to the unknown storage conditions of the small bottle found in the house of Mr Rowley and the fact that the environmental samples analysed in relation to the poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal and Mr Nicholas Bailey were exposed to the environment and moisture, the impurity profiles of the samples available to the OPCW do not make it possible to draw conclusions as to whether the samples are from the same synthesis batch"

So, yet more lack of conclusive evidence for the UK governments pantomime over Russia's novichok programme..._

https://opcw.org/fileadmin/OPCW/S_series/2018/en/s-1671-2018_e_.pdf

[nome]

Strange how they've managed to find multiple very clear CCTV images of these two.... yet the 7/7 bombings in the heart of London produced only a couple of very fuzzy, very poor quality images of the suspects.

[Goat]

1 hour ago, nome said:

Strange how they've managed to find multiple very clear CCTV images of these two.... yet the 7/7 bombings in the heart of London produced only a couple of very fuzzy, very poor quality images of the suspects.

15 years ago and the 7/7 bombers didn't travel via heathrow airport, maybe their cameras are better.

[Errol]

More made up nonsense from the UK Government. When will the lies end - with war with Russia?

These so-called Russians would have had to apply for Visas to gain entry to the UK. These visas have full biometric data. The Russian Government has requested full biometric data and other information but the UK Government is apparently refusing to provide it.

Also, several points to note:

(1) Is it normal for the UK to grant Visas to supposed GRU agents?

(2) We are supposed to believe that these so-called agents would actually use Russian passports to gain entry?

(3) Do we think the Russia intelligence agencies are comprised of totally thick and incompetent people?

(5) Also, isn't it rather convenient that on this occasion we have lovely clear CCTV footage when on numerous other occasions (crime, terrorism etc) the CCTV is blurry, rubbish or non-existant?

(6) And on the CCTV point, see this new post by Craig Murray where the two suspects are either in the same place at exactly the same time or walk through different corridors at precisely the same second. The footage is probably faked or doctored to some extent - https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/09/the-impossible-photo/

[Errol]

More questions being asked at off-guardian:  https://off-guardian.org/2018/09/05/skripal-case-suspects-named-questions-raised/

Eg:

1. Why did two alleged GRU agents travel under false names and fake passports, but still use Russian names and Russian passports? If they had used EU passports – say from Lithuania or Estonia for example – they wouldn’t have needed a visa, thanks to EU freedom of movement agreements, and could still have spoken Russian without raising suspicion.

 

And some interesting questions from the comments:

Where is detailed info from the Russians’ visa applications? What reason did they provide to travel to UK? How did they show they were solvent and had health insurance? Who invited them? Did a bogus (tourism) company invite them?

Will UK government ask Russian authorities to check out the addresses provided in visa applications?

 

Worth repeating that the Russian authorities have requested full details of the biometric passport and visa data but the UK Government is currently refusing to disclose them.

[zugzwang]

3 hours ago, nome said:

Strange how they've managed to find multiple very clear CCTV images of these two.... yet the 7/7 bombings in the heart of London produced only a couple of very fuzzy, very poor quality images of the suspects.

Even stranger. The accused allegedly took the train from London to Salisbury and back direct, so how did the 'novichok' end up in a sealed box 12 miles away in Amesbury?

Traces of the poison were allegedly found in the City Stay Hotel that the accused occupied for two days. Yet where were the hazmat suits, the cordon sanitaire and screens so ostentatiously deployed at the Skripals' house and elsewhere?

 

[Errol]

lol!

 

In comments to The Independent, Victoria Skripal, controversial and estranged niece of the poisoned double agent, said she had yet to be persuaded by the British evidence.

"So they say it's Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov. They might as well have said John Smith and John Smith. The only thing they have been imaginative with is the ethnic backgrounds."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/salisbury-attack-russia-novichok-suspects-name-uk-foreign-ministry-skripal-a8523741.html

[Peter Hun]

12 hours ago, nome said:

Strange how they've managed to find multiple very clear CCTV images of these two.... yet the 7/7 bombings in the heart of London produced only a couple of very fuzzy, very poor quality images of the suspects.

Yes, cctv pictures of me going to work are much better

How are your holiday snaps? Fuzzy or clear?

Wtf has any of that irrelevant  crap got to do with these photos? 

[Peter Hun]

9 hours ago, Errol said:

Victoria Skripal

Just how gorrmless are Russians that they will believe their own government even as it tries to murder them. Russian people are facing depopulation in their homeland through genocidal actions of Putin. And they love him.

[Errol]

More from Craig Murray 

 

Skripals – The Mystery Deepens

“Boshirov and Petrov” plainly are of interest in this case. But only Theresa May stated they were Russian agents: the police did not, and stated that they expected those were not their real identities. We do not know who Boshirov and Petrov were. It appears very likely their appearance was to do with the Skripals on that day. But they may have been meeting them, outside the home. The evidence points to that, rather than doorknobs. Such a meeting might explain why the Skripals had turned off their mobile phones to attempt to avoid surveillance.

It is also telling the police have pressed no charges against them in the case of Dawn Sturgess, which would be manslaughter at least if the government version is true.

If “Boshirov and Petrov” are secret agents, their incompetence is astounding. They used public transport rather than a vehicle and left the clearest possible CCTV footprint. They failed in their assassination attempt. They left traces of novichok everywhere and could well have poisoned themselves, and left the “murder weapon” lying around to be found. Their timings in Salisbury were extremely tight – and British Sunday rail service dependent.

There are other possibilities of who “Boshirov and Petrov” really are, of which Ukrainian is the obvious one. One thing I discovered when British Ambassador to Uzbekistan was that there had been a large Ukrainian ethnic group of scientists working at the Soviet chemical weapon testing facility there at Nukus. There are many other possibilities.

Yesterday’s revelations certainly add to the amount we know about the Skripal event. But they raise as many new questions as they give answers.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/09/skripals-the-mystery-deepens/

[zugzwang]

1 hour ago, Errol said:

More from Craig Murray 

 

Skripals – The Mystery Deepens

“Boshirov and Petrov” plainly are of interest in this case. But only Theresa May stated they were Russian agents: the police did not, and stated that they expected those were not their real identities. We do not know who Boshirov and Petrov were. It appears very likely their appearance was to do with the Skripals on that day. But they may have been meeting them, outside the home. The evidence points to that, rather than doorknobs. Such a meeting might explain why the Skripals had turned off their mobile phones to attempt to avoid surveillance.

It is also telling the police have pressed no charges against them in the case of Dawn Sturgess, which would be manslaughter at least if the government version is true.

If “Boshirov and Petrov” are secret agents, their incompetence is astounding. They used public transport rather than a vehicle and left the clearest possible CCTV footprint. They failed in their assassination attempt. They left traces of novichok everywhere and could well have poisoned themselves, and left the “murder weapon” lying around to be found. Their timings in Salisbury were extremely tight – and British Sunday rail service dependent.

There are other possibilities of who “Boshirov and Petrov” really are, of which Ukrainian is the obvious one. One thing I discovered when British Ambassador to Uzbekistan was that there had been a large Ukrainian ethnic group of scientists working at the Soviet chemical weapon testing facility there at Nukus. There are many other possibilities.

Yesterday’s revelations certainly add to the amount we know about the Skripal event. But they raise as many new questions as they give answers.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/09/skripals-the-mystery-deepens/

The assassination plot reads like a locked-room murder mystery! Fragile, contrived, acutely dependent on coincidence for success and shot full of logical inconsistencies. Of course, neither Sergei Skripal or his daughter were actually killed. Perhaps that's the explanation. The GRU boys 'Borrish' and 'Alexsh' got too fancy.

As Raymond Chandler observed in The Simple Art of Murder:

Quote

There is one of Dorothy Sayers’ in which a man is murdered alone at night in his house by a mechanically released weight which works because he always turns the radio on at just such a moment, always stands in just such a position in front of it, and always bends over just so far. A couple of inches either way and the customers would get a rain check. This is what is vulgarly known as having God sit in your lap; a murderer who needs that much help from Providence must be in the wrong business.

And there is a scheme of Agatha Christie’s featuring M. Hercule Poirot, that ingenius Belgian who talks in a literal translation of school-boy French, wherein, by duly messing around with his "little gray cells," M. Poirot decides that nobody on a certain through sleeper could have done the murder alone, therefore everybody did it together, breaking the process down into a series of simple operations, like assembling an egg-beater. This is the type that is guaranteed to knock the keenest mind for a loop. Only a halfwit could guess it.

 

[zugzwang]

Live CCTV footage of Laurelov and Hardyov window-shopping in Salisbury, as trained killers do after making a hit.

https://news.sky.com/story/salisbury-novichok-poisoning-russian-spies-filmed-window-shopping-after-attack-11491730

 

 

 

[debtlessmanc]

19 hours ago, zugzwang said:

Live CCTV footage of Laurelov and Hardyov window-shopping in Salisbury, as trained killers do after making a hit.

https://news.sky.com/story/salisbury-novichok-poisoning-russian-spies-filmed-window-shopping-after-attack-11491730

 

 

 

What would a nerve gas assination on a foreign powers soil look like zugzwang? what would its characteristics be? we have had one for sure (kim il sung's bro) would they all be like that or would they all involve people who never looked in shop windows?

[zugzwang]

1 hour ago, debtlessmanc said:

What would a nerve gas assination on a foreign powers soil look like zugzwang? what would its characteristics be? we have had one for sure (kim il sung's bro) would they all be like that or would they all involve people who never looked in shop windows?

Kim Rossmo's pioneering work on geographical profiling suggests that anonymity is a key factor in determining when and where murder is committed. OK, one might expect professional killers (if that's what they are) to conduct themselves somewhat differently from common or garden murderers, especially if they are motivated by notions of patriotic duty rather than greed or personal enmity. However, I'd still expect them to be as discreet as possible in the prosecution of their crimes. If walking around in daylight is inconsistent with that objective then going shopping, as the suspects appear prepared to do, trashes it entirely. At a stroke it would have given away their voices/accents quite unnecessarily and provided additional witnesses to their crime (it also reveals that at least one of them is conversational in English ofc). 

[jonb2]

14 hours ago, zugzwang said:

Kim Rossmo's pioneering work on geographical profiling suggests that anonymity is a key factor in determining when and where murder is committed. OK, one might expect professional killers (if that's what they are) to conduct themselves somewhat differently from common or garden murderers, especially if they are motivated by notions of patriotic duty rather than greed or personal enmity. However, I'd still expect them to be as discreet as possible in the prosecution of their crimes. If walking around in daylight is inconsistent with that objective then going shopping, as the suspects appear prepared to do, trashes it entirely. At a stroke it would have given away their voices/accents quite unnecessarily and provided additional witnesses to their crime (it also reveals that at least one of them is conversational in English ofc). 

There have been plenty of inept spies in history.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-russian-spy-run-by-dumb-and-dumber

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1993/02/21/from-inside-the-kgb-a-tale-of-incompetence/af6193e0-2a2e-46e4-9b84-39a57744b8f5/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.4a3c9af0bf0b

Patriotic, hard man loving macho Russians will have hubris in their blood. Because they have got away with so many killings here, they probably felt immune to detection. The open glare of publicity may have been planned as its own terror tactic.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/03/06/the-long-terrifying-history-of-russian-dissidents-being-poisoned-abroad/?utm_term=.a6b50363ca72

Murder is not the same mentality as assassination. Assassination is a job. In this case fuelled by a patriotic justification. Doing it for the motherland. They will have done it before, probably many times. I don't think a profiler will be as effective as they would be with a local serial killer.

[Quiet Guy]

A decent summary of the conspiracy theories here:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/salisbury-attack-truth-facts-skripal-novichok-poisoning-a8527711.html

[zugzwang]

On 08/09/2018 at 09:34, jonb2 said:

There have been plenty of inept spies in history.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-russian-spy-run-by-dumb-and-dumber

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1993/02/21/from-inside-the-kgb-a-tale-of-incompetence/af6193e0-2a2e-46e4-9b84-39a57744b8f5/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.4a3c9af0bf0b

Patriotic, hard man loving macho Russians will have hubris in their blood. Because they have got away with so many killings here, they probably felt immune to detection. The open glare of publicity may have been planned as its own terror tactic.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/03/06/the-long-terrifying-history-of-russian-dissidents-being-poisoned-abroad/?utm_term=.a6b50363ca72

Murder is not the same mentality as assassination. Assassination is a job. In this case fuelled by a patriotic justification. Doing it for the motherland. They will have done it before, probably many times. I don't think a profiler will be as effective as they would be with a local serial killer.

There's a lot in what you say, I'm happy to agree. Assassination is a type of murder unlike any other, psychologically and physiologically. Even so, the supreme nonchalance of these two beggars belief. They're not even wearing gloves, which would have been entirely justified by the winter weather. All-in-all, very strange. Like so many aspects of the Skripal affair.

[zugzwang]

"The classic cover is shopping for property."

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/four-more-russian-suspects-yet-13212077

But, of course. The perfect disguise!