Futuroid Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 1 minute ago, malk said: Are you saying this might be our fault? That's the kind of anti-patriotic nonsense that makes us so attractive to economic migrants that love living in slums on the margins of society without hope of a future. We aren't the only ones to blame - but if you destabilize countries like Libya (and Iraq) because you don't like the top man, don't be surprised when the country collapses into chaos. What is different this time is that Europe is so close to where the collapse is happening it's within touching distance. Italy is awash with illegal immigrants from Africa. Some are economic migrants, but increasingly they are from war-torn countries - you have to be pretty desperate to pay $$$ to take your chances in an inflatable crossing the Med. The number that come to the UK is a small fraction of the number that are coming into to Italy and Greece. https://fullfact.org/immigration/asylum-seekers-uk-and-europe/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Silvio Berlusconi Backs Leader Of Euroskeptic Party To Form Italy's Next Government In what's probably a nightmare scenario for the millions of Italians who supported left or center-left candidates, Forza Italia leader and former four-time prime minister Silvio Berlusconi has decided to support Matteo Salvini, the candidate of the euroskeptic Northern League, in his attempt to form a government after Euroskeptic and anti-establishment parties performed (once again) far better than expected. https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-07/silvio-berlusconi-backs-leader-euroskeptic-party-form-italys-next-government Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomandlu Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 On 3/5/2018 at 1:09 PM, Futuroid said: I take it you are new to Italian politics? As an aside, good to see that crusader for the common man Silvio Berlusconi do well. A real poke in the eye for the Italian establishment... I'm told that history tutors tell their students that, whatever the question or period, you can always safely add "it was a turbulent time in Italian politics" to your essay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malk Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 On 06/03/2018 at 11:01 AM, Futuroid said: We aren't the only ones to blame - but if you destabilize countries like Libya (and Iraq) because you don't like the top man, don't be surprised when the country collapses into chaos. What is different this time is that Europe is so close to where the collapse is happening it's within touching distance. Italy is awash with illegal immigrants from Africa. Some are economic migrants, but increasingly they are from war-torn countries - you have to be pretty desperate to pay $$$ to take your chances in an inflatable crossing the Med. The number that come to the UK is a small fraction of the number that are coming into to Italy and Greece. https://fullfact.org/immigration/asylum-seekers-uk-and-europe/ Was being sarcastic, I'm absolutely with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 On 06/03/2018 at 11:01 AM, Futuroid said: We aren't the only ones to blame - but if you destabilize countries like Libya (and Iraq) because you don't like the top man, don't be surprised when the country collapses into chaos. What is different this time is that Europe is so close to where the collapse is happening it's within touching distance. Italy is awash with illegal immigrants from Africa. Some are economic migrants, but increasingly they are from war-torn countries - you have to be pretty desperate to pay $$$ to take your chances in an inflatable crossing the Med. The number that come to the UK is a small fraction of the number that are coming into to Italy and Greece. https://fullfact.org/immigration/asylum-seekers-uk-and-europe/ Chart contradicts your statement. Only Syria is at war - and thats a civil war too. Ghan and Iraq are as stable as theyve ever been. None of Kosovo -> Iran are at war. And a 'other' @ 300k is a big question mark/BS.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malk Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Iraq is as stable as it has ever been... Loool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 49 minutes ago, spyguy said: Chart contradicts your statement. Only Syria is at war - and thats a civil war too. Ghan and Iraq are as stable as theyve ever been. None of Kosovo -> Iran are at war. And a 'other' @ 300k is a big question mark/BS. Â There are many, many wars SG. For which there is a hunger for arms and bullets. It's a great business for the West. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futuroid Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 18 hours ago, spyguy said: Chart contradicts your statement. Only Syria is at war - and thats a civil war too. Ghan and Iraq are as stable as theyve ever been  Go home, you're drunk. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Fragile_States_Index Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, Futuroid said: Go home, you're drunk. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Fragile_States_Index For 'fragile states' all the top (bottom?) countries have very high birth rates. South Sudan is ~5 kids. Somalis 6.3 kids. CAR 4.2 kids. Tells a different story, doesnt it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Option5 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 14 minutes ago, spyguy said: For 'fragile states' all the top (bottom?) countries have very high birth rates. South Sudan is ~5 kids. Somalis 6.3 kids. CAR 4.2 kids. Tells a different story, doesnt it? Infant mortality rates also influence the birthrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, Option5 said: Infant mortality rates also influence the birthrate. Indeed. But not in these cases. 1970 population of Somalia - 3.4m. Today 14.3m CAR 1.8m -> 4.4m South Sudan 3.7m - > 12.3m Those numbers show the problem. Pakistan 58m ->Â 193m I would guess each of those fragile countries, most of whom turn up on boats in the Med, have all seen their population at least triple in the last 30 odd years. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futuroid Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 3 hours ago, spyguy said: For 'fragile states' all the top (bottom?) countries have very high birth rates. South Sudan is ~5 kids. Somalis 6.3 kids. CAR 4.2 kids. Tells a different story, doesnt it? It tells the story of someone who doesn't know what they are talking about. Only someone drunk, mad or with only a history book that extends 10 years into the past would suggest that Afghanistan and Iraq are "are as stable as theyve ever been." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Futuroid said: It tells the story of someone who doesn't know what they are talking about. Only someone drunk, mad or with only a history book that extends 10 years into the past would suggest that Afghanistan and Iraq are "are as stable as theyve ever been." They are. Ghan has never been stable. Pakistan is as srable as youd exoect a corruot country whose population is doubling every 10 years.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddog Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Looks like a breakthrough cannot be made in the Italian election negotiations.  So fresh vote is likely to take place: https://www.google.ch/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/07/italy-could-heading-fresh-election-july-failure-break-political/amp/  I can see this as only being good for the League and 5 Star Movement.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Italy will either leave or be thrown out. It cannot really go one like it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sideysid Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 (edited) On 06/03/2018 at 11:01, Futuroid said: We aren't the only ones to blame - but if you destabilize countries like Libya (and Iraq) because you don't like the top man, don't be surprised when the country collapses into chaos. What is different this time is that Europe is so close to where the collapse is happening it's within touching distance. Italy is awash with illegal immigrants from Africa. Some are economic migrants, but increasingly they are from war-torn countries - you have to be pretty desperate to pay $$$ to take your chances in an inflatable crossing the Med. The number that come to the UK is a small fraction of the number that are coming into to Italy and Greece. https://fullfact.org/immigration/asylum-seekers-uk-and-europe/ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grande-Terre_(Mayotte) Smaller EU territories are also facing issues. The island of Mayotte who gained âOutmost region in the EUâ in 2014 population has doubled in 10 years but thatâs only offical statistics. 70% of every 10000 births every year are from undocumented migrants and resources being stretched is causing unrest on the island. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-43443716 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp/article-5508247/French-island-hospital-groans-African-baby-influx.html  Edited May 8, 2018 by sideysid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckmojo Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 46 minutes ago, spyguy said: Italy will either leave or be thrown out. It cannot really go one like it is. Oh it can. Best situation for Brussels is a no-governrment country like Belgium, where any EU diktat can be pushed through as there is no effective opposition to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maynardgravy Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 1 hour ago, spyguy said: Italy will either leave or be thrown outïğż. It cannot really go one like it is. I wish. The EU would be cutting its own throat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 1 hour ago, stuckmojo said: Oh it can. Best situation for Brussels is a no-governrment country like Belgium, where any EU diktat can be pushed through as there is no effective opposition to it. Italy is too big and too in debt. Belgium is just a dumb, made up tiny country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddog Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 I think there were suggestions of a neutral "technical" government until Christmas, no doubt the EU would love to parachute their preferred candidate in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckmojo Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 9 minutes ago, reddog said: I think there were suggestions of a neutral "technical" government until Christmas, no doubt the EU would love to parachute their preferred candidate in! that's what I expect anyway. A puppet put up by the EU like Monti. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebull Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 If there's a majority for leaving the EU from the two biggest groups, why not organise a short term temporary gov to have a referendum / do that and nothing else. Then have a new GE after that. That would take the rest of the year with a refendum in autumn and GE early in 2019. Guessing the answer is that leaving the EU is not the priority for either of those two biggest groups. Maybe Farage should offer to step up as interim leader. ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugsbody Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 12 hours ago, spyguy said: Italy will either leave or be thrown out. It cannot really go one like it is. I call nonsense. Let's revisit this each year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Apple Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 12 hours ago, sideysid said: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grande-Terre_(Mayotte) Smaller EU territories are also facing issues. The island of Mayotte who gained âOutmost region in the EUâ in 2014 population has doubled in 10 years but thatâs only offical statistics. 70% of every 10000 births every year are from undocumented migrants and resources being stretched is causing unrest on the island. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-43443716 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp/article-5508247/French-island-hospital-groans-African-baby-influx.html  "It is a predominantly Muslim country, and although French is the official language, only about half of the population can read or write it." Didn't see that one coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddog Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 1 hour ago, ebull said: If there's a majority for leaving the EU from the two biggest groups, why not organise a short term temporary gov to have a referendum / do that and nothing else. Then have a new GE after that. That would take the rest of the year with a refendum in autumn and GE early in 2019. Guessing the answer is that leaving the EU is not the priority for either of those two biggest groups. Maybe Farage should offer to step up as interim leader. ??? The Five Star movement want to have more referendums anyway. What they should do is just setup a government to administer referendums on all the key topics (possibly a bit unrealistic because there would soon be debate as to how referendums are worded etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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