reddog Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 I think someone was discussing this on here the other day. https://www.ft.com/content/946204de-0dbb-11e8-8eb7-42f857ea9f09 Tfl have a £1 billion budget blackhole, blamed on: Uber Working from home Online shopping Terror attacks I would also put in people not working, or working part time, not that they are unemployed....just "economically inactive" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBound Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 So nothing to do with the economically illiterate labour mayor freezing fares (despite rising costs) in order to buy votes? How to drive TfL into the ground. Just a small example of what Comrade Corbyn and the rest would do to the entire country given half a chance chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddog Posted February 12, 2018 Author Share Posted February 12, 2018 14 minutes ago, LondonBound said: So nothing to do with the economically illiterate labour mayor freezing fares (despite rising costs) in order to buy votes? How to drive TfL into the ground. Just a small example of what Comrade Corbyn and the rest would do to the entire country given half a chance chance. Yeah no doubt Khan has screwed up, but it looks like there is another trend going on, people are now able to circumvent public transport in London! What will happen when Uber and the like get even more competitive? Will the tube be empty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 32 minutes ago, LondonBound said: So nothing to do with the economically illiterate labour mayor freezing fares (despite rising costs) in order to buy votes? How to drive TfL into the ground. Just a small example of what Comrade Corbyn and the rest would do to the entire country given half a chance chance. The article says passenger numbers are falling. I struggle to see how that can be blamed on freezing fares. More likely it's due to the many years of fares rising faster than wages that preceded it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayo Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 2 hours ago, LondonBound said: So nothing to do with the economically illiterate labour mayor freezing fares (despite rising costs) in order to buy votes? How to drive TfL into the ground. Just a small example of what Comrade Corbyn and the rest would do to the entire country given half a chance chance. Yes - bus subsidies have ballooned to over £700m a year when most of England runs almost subsidy free. They need to scale back the absurd Freedom Pass too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Dorkins said: The article says passenger numbers are falling. I struggle to see how that can be blamed on freezing fares. More likely it's due to the many years of fares rising faster than wages that preceded it. Or filling up London with unemployable 3rd worlders on benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronyx Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Far easier to get around on a stolen moped or your daddies Bugatti Veyron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, Wayo said: Yes - bus subsidies have ballooned to over £700m a year when most of England runs almost subsidy free. They need to scale back the absurd Freedom Pass too. Agreed. I find the level of London subsidies and transport spending offensive. Then they let all the rich pensioners travel for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Fewer using tfl because fewer can afford to travel to London, pay the parking, use the tube, buy coffee and lunch......all too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castlevania Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Just now, spyguy said: Agreed. I find the level of London subsidies and transport spending offensive. Then they let all the rich pensioners travel for free. Not even pensioners. You can travel for free from the age of 60. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, spyguy said: Agreed. I find the level of London subsidies and transport spending offensive. Then they let all the rich pensioners travel for free. It's actually worse than that, the free London travel pass is for everyone 60 or over, it's not even limited to pensioners. https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/adult-discounts-and-concessions/60-london-oyster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, Castlevania said: Not even pensioners. You can travel for free from the age of 60. ....another postcode lottery......London is like another country, along with Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland......all completely different places to the rest of the UK who have to pay for full fare till almost 70 often have to travel further with poor transport connections, trains the price and lack of them are dire.......even more of a reason to boycott public transport altogether or stopathome.....often cheaper to fly to Europe than catch a train. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonguest Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Someone remind me please.....just how much profit (after operating costs) does the London congestion charge bring in annually? We were all promised, by Ken Livingstone at its inception, that reveinues would be funnelled exclusively into public trnsport resources. So, what has happned to all the cash? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, anonguest said: Someone remind me please.....just how much profit (after operating costs) does the London congestion charge bring in annually? We were all promised, by Ken Livingstone at its inception, that reveinues would be funnelled exclusively into public trnsport resources. So, what has happned to all the cash? We?? Theres 50m people who dont live in London. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonguest Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, spyguy said: We?? Theres 50m people who dont live in London. I was speaking as a (soon to be ex-) Londoner to fellow Londoners. Edited February 12, 2018 by anonguest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adarmo Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, spyguy said: We?? Theres 50m people who dont live in London. There's probably about 7 billion who don't live in London. I get the sentiment though. London ain't the centre of the universe despite what the people who live there think. It's a fun place to party though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insane Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 38 minutes ago, Dorkins said: It's actually worse than that, the free London travel pass is for everyone 60 or over, it's not even limited to pensioners. I know people who are over 60 that are drawing their pensions still working and travel to work in London for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamoMucci Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Never knew such subsidies existed in London but not elsewhere. And they try to make out London is where all the wealth is created and the rest leech off the city. I wonder what the actual numbers would look like when you take away all the transfers of wealth to London. I mean running subsidised transport like that just sweeps under the carpet how financially unviable London actually is for most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregBowman Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 2 hours ago, reddog said: Yeah no doubt Khan has screwed up, but it looks like there is another trend going on, people are now able to circumvent public transport in London! What will happen when Uber and the like get even more competitive? Will the tube be empty? Not sure the circumvention is much to do with Uber ( although a factor ) Travel cards wrongly priced for commuters from Home Counties. So massive upsurge in people who come in mainline then walk - weirdly many found out how easy that is from the TFL campaign around the 2012 Olympics to prevent over crowding on tube Cycling gone through the roof Motorcycles allowed in bus lanes - safer than ever. Anecdotally all bays now busy in the West End by 830 even two years ago wasn’t like that Fkexi Working - less days or off peak hours Activity trackers - why rush home to a gym when 2 x 30-45 min walks a day do the same job and you save money Smartphone maps - people belatedly have realised what a small place London is to navigate on foot I am sure Uber is a part of it but economically doesn’t really add up - max tube from Barnet ( zone 6 )a day with Oyster about £9 unlimited journeys - Uber at whatever level can’t compete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sf-02 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 No mention that central government cut £700 million in funding to TfL? That's the main reason. The answer isn't to cut money for London but raise transport funding and devolution for the rest of England. England is very odd in not spending much on infrastructure. In many developed countries most cities are adequately funded. Its not Berlin or Frankfurt for gov scraps. Paris or Marseille. Beijing or Shanghai. Here the gov love playing regions off against each other. Now London is the only major world city with no gov assistance on transport operating costs. Wouldn't be so bad of there was adequate devolution to raise money locally but there isn't. The congestion charge does not do it. The rest of England has crap buses as deregulated in 1986. Local Authorities were banned from running profitable routes but had to provide subsidies for non profitable routes with no ability to cross subsidise. Even in the States cities don't function that way let alone the rest of Europe or Asia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Orange Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) 35 minutes ago, sf-02 said: Even in the States cities don't function that way let alone the rest of Europe or Asia. The grass is greener on the other side: Stations, signals, and cars 50 to a 100 years out of date, chronic delays and accidents, ingrained corruption and incompetence, rats and roaches swarming the stations and tunnels. After a renaissance of the NY subway from the mid 80s to late 90s, the upkeep and maintenance was deemed too costly by the NY State and City, so they allowed the subsidising fall into the hands of banker riffraff and it all inevitably went downhill from there... Edited February 12, 2018 by Big Orange Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca13 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 2 hours ago, spyguy said: Or filling up London with unemployable 3rd worlders on benefits. I’ve said this on here before.. my gran lives in a block of 6 retirement flats.. used to be all retired British workers.. now 3 flats have people who have never worked in this country in their lives and don’t even speak English! ? we are paying to retire people from other countries, Sri Lanka, Korea and Poland.. how can we sustain our benefits system and standard of living? It’s all going to collapse.. seeing this all through the system, Northamptonshire council bankrupt and others in trouble.. this house of cards is falling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 9 hours ago, AdamoMucci said: Never knew such subsidies existed in London but not elsewhere. And they try to make out London is where all the wealth is created and the rest leech off the city. I wonder what the actual numbers would look like when you take away all the transfers of wealth to London. I mean running subsidised transport like that just sweeps under the carpet how financially unviable London actually is for most. Its not just the subs, its the providing of public transport too. A free bus pass is not a great deal of use to a lot of pensioners when theres one bus on every other Monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 London has some of the most expensive public transport in the world. Most overcrowded trains in the UK. Subsidy cancelled. Fare freeze doesn't apply to season tickets. London subsidises every other region of the UK. London population is 12.5% of UK, 8.788 million in 2016, the South East (i.e the suburbs of London) is 9 Million Freedom pass is now 64 years not 60. increases to 65 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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