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bear.getting.old

ITV programme last night on transport chaos

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This was a programme telling us what we already know, commuting is a nightmare. There was a mother who lived in Whitstable, Kent who did a commute into London for just a part time job of 20 odd hours a week. I guess on the child tax credits etc. Why she couldn't do a local job god only knows but I suspect it was to do with overpriced housing, though they did not touch on this.

Overcrowded trains etc, tailbacks, 5 hour a day commutes and rising stress level. I remember traffic levels rising just before the 2007 crash, since then traffic declined. Could we be meeting peak travel along with peak house prices? Did anyone see this show?

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There's talk of HS2 train saving 10 mins on a journey ( to London ) 

 

Meanwhile managed motorways ( I ****ing hate them ) added 10 mins on average to the journey I was doing.

 

Lowered speed limits also slowing people down.

 

Are they trying to speed people up.....or slow them down to simply...tax them into he ground, meanwhile they assist bankers getting to London ?

 

One has to wonder.

 

 

Edited by TheCountOfNowhere

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36 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

Lowered speed limits also slowing people down.

Are they trying to speed people up.....or slow them down to simply...tax them into he ground, meanwhile they assist bankers getting to London ?

One has to wonder.

Tends to be the way today... financial centres such as london or Edinburgh always have schemes to help the growth of finance sector and related transport links and housing needs. 

Lowered speed limits. Causing you to drive in lower gear at higher revs. Burning more fuel... increased sets of needless traffic lights, same... all of which slowing down travel times. Not progress, the opposite. All while increasing population hence general traffic.

Almost as if increased fuel consumption/no reduction/distraction was the agenda...

 

 

Edited by fluteroop

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3 hours ago, bear.getting.old said:

Overcrowded trains etc, tailbacks, 5 hour a day commutes and rising stress level. I remember traffic levels rising just before the 2007 crash, since then traffic declined. Could we be meeting peak travel along with peak house prices? Did anyone see this show?

100% this, 2008 and 2009 the road traffic seemed to die down a good 30-40%

But i think since then during the *cough* 'recovery' what we have seen is a massive glut of debt and easy car finance, coupled with the boomers getting very doddery and generally congesting the roads up. 

I could start working around 9, but recently i have been starting 6 in the morning, removing an hour of driving from my day due to feckless drivers, who in 50 zones seem to stick to no more than 30mph.

Or the daily favourite of cars in the slow lane on a dual carriageway who have been behind a lorry for about 5 miles, waits until they see me coming past in the fast lane, and only then, instead of waiting a few split seconds for me to pass, decide to pull out right in front of me (when i'm clearly not letting them out) then overtake about 0.5MPH faster than the lorry, then wait about 4 minutes after overtaking to pull back into the slow lane, several times i have been very tempted just to plow into the rear of one of these *******s. I think if we dont get a HPC and im left with this commute i may well just take one of these *******s with me.

I would love a good recession to clean the roads up a bit!

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.....to travel four miles by car took 40 minutes, parked 10 min walk away from work to avoid paying to park all day, to work......quite a nice walk as it went, clears the mind...did manage to cut the traveling time by arranging to start earlier and leaving earlier, starting early and leaving early suited well......getting to know the local rat runs help.;)

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3 hours ago, Errol said:

Commuter numbers have already dropped for both London commuter routes and the tube.

.....fewer white van mans........more white van delivery vans.;)

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20 minutes ago, winkie said:

.....to travel four miles by car took 40 minutes, parked 10 min walk away from work to avoid paying to park all day, to work......quite a nice walk as it went, clears the mind...did manage to cut the traveling time by arranging to start earlier and leaving earlier, starting early and leaving early suited well......getting to know the local rat runs help.;)

Four miles..? So why aren't you cycling - or even walking? Do you need the car during the day for work purposes?

Whenever I read comments like this I always chuckle as it appears completely lost on the person who's complaining that they ARE the problem...

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2 minutes ago, zilly said:

Four miles..? So why aren't you cycling - or even walking? Do you need the car during the day for work purposes?

Whenever I read comments like this I always chuckle as it appears completely lost on the person who's complaining that they ARE the problem...

...yes, move about, also carry stuff that would not fit on a bike......also do not trust the traffic enough to cycle even if I could.....some terrible drivers out there.;)

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6 hours ago, jiltedjen said:

Or the daily favourite of cars in the slow lane on a dual carriageway who have been behind a lorry for about 5 miles, waits until they see me coming past in the fast lane, and only then, instead of waiting a few split seconds for me to pass, decide to pull out right in front of me (when i'm clearly not letting them out) then overtake about 0.5MPH faster than the lorry, then wait about 4 minutes after overtaking to pull back into the slow lane, several times i have been very tempted just to plow into the rear of one of these *******s. I think if we dont get a HPC and im left with this commute i may well just take one of these *******s with me.

I would love a good recession to clean the roads up a bit!

Yeah, some people really shouldn't be on the road.

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7 hours ago, jiltedjen said:

Or the daily favourite of cars in the slow lane on a dual carriageway who have been behind a lorry for about 5 miles, waits until they see me coming past in the fast lane, and only then, instead of waiting a few split seconds for me to pass, decide to pull out right in front of me (when i'm clearly not letting them out) then overtake about 0.5MPH faster than the lorry, then wait about 4 minutes after overtaking to pull back into the slow lane, several times i have been very tempted just to plow into the rear of one of these *******s. I think if we dont get a HPC and im left with this commute i may well just take one of these *******s with me.

I would love a good recession to clean the roads up a bit!

I feel your pain.

The other one is ditherers at roundabouts. When they are first in the queue, and there is a normal sized gap, but they don't go because they are too timid and scared of driving. Oh no, they have to have a gap so huge that only comes around once in ten minutes before they have the confidence to move.

An old colleague frustrated with these people, that he had to suffer regularly, said he wanted to buy an "old banger" and just push them out :)

 

 

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The programme in this thread was an episode of "Tonight" called "Travel Chaos: The True Cost". 

Quote

Traffic is on the rise and the number of people using railways is set to double in the next 25 years. The Government say they are investing in the transport infrastructure, but there is no end in sight for millions facing miserable commutes.

linked article: https://www.itv.com/news/2018-02-08/travel-chaos-the-true-cost-tonight/

ITV "hub" link: https://www.itv.com/hub/tonight/1a2803a1093

 

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5 minutes ago, mrtickle said:

The programme in this thread was an episode of "Tonight" called "Travel Chaos: The True Cost". 

linked article: https://www.itv.com/news/2018-02-08/travel-chaos-the-true-cost-tonight/

ITV "hub" link: https://www.itv.com/hub/tonight/1a2803a1093

 

Isn't there evidence that the growth in rail travel has 'hit the buffers' so to speak? (http://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0019/24832I/passenger-rail-usage-2016-17-q4.pdf). It will never double in next 25 years, without collossal investment in new lines and trains, and a substantial decrease in ticket costs.

A rise of only 0.8% in rail passenger journeys in 2016/7 compared to 4-7% in previous years. I suspect it is why the East Coast franchise has been given up early, not just the Network Rail engineering shortcomings which have been blamed.

Car travel has possibly never been cheaper.

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My commute, is supposed to be 20 minutes by rail. Actually takes 40 minutes most days because the train has to stop outside London Bridge due to "congestion". 

The franchise owner has also cut the rush hour route trains from 10 carriages to 8 as of January, no reason or explanation given, it was overcrowded before, now it is torture. The days I work from home are bliss. 

The bane of my life, can not wait to get out of this city for good. 

I have also noticed that the drivers on the roads ( south east London )  are getting increasingly dangerous and taking very silly risks, due to, I am guessing a combination of stress and massive overcrowding of key routes. 

 

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railways are extortionately expensive.

it doesn't matter anyway... within 10 years most people will travel in shared self-driving electric minibuses on journeys planned on their smartphones / goggles which will be cheaper, faster and end-end unlike current transport methods. 

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/10/26/self-driving-minibus-now-running-germany/

Modern tech will supercede the old pretty quickly. Much faster than in the past. The new generation don't even drive and a cost effective / comfortable alternative to cars would be picked up immediately by the uber / lyft generation who'll make up the majority of the workforce in 10 years. 

Edited by hayder

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3 hours ago, mrtickle said:

The programme in this thread was an episode of "Tonight" called "Travel Chaos: The True Cost". 

linked article: https://www.itv.com/news/2018-02-08/travel-chaos-the-true-cost-tonight/

ITV "hub" link: https://www.itv.com/hub/tonight/1a2803a1093

 

Thanks for the addition. 'Smart' Motorways. Surely an extra lane at peak times at the expense of safety. It takes them about 3-4 years of roadworks to do the 'upgrade' to smart motorways. In that time other countries could have built a whole new motorway.! The variable speed limits surely only just slow the traffic down and not do anything to manage the queues. I know the thinking is if you stop the stop start aspect you get less jams but I don't see it.

The show made me think who the hell would do these journeys. Isn't it easier to be unemployed or move country altogether. No wonder UK productivity is low

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Surely I wasn’t the only one watching this screaming, “Work closer to home then” when the woman claimed 60% of her pay was spent in the commute. Surely her London wages are not 100% more than what she would get working locally? It makes no sense what somever.

I’ve done the maths a few years back to work out if I should move to London, stick into our in Cardiff or move/commute to Bristol and while I’d earn more in London I’d pay more rent for a smaller home. Bristol moving to or commuting too broke even with just getting a job locally. But then I’d be living away from friends or family or travelling for 2 hours a day vs 45minutes. I just don’t get why people do it, they see the salary and jump in but fails to look at the associated costs.

Maybe I’m lucky that my industry pays well outside London, does IT/software really pay that much better relatively in South Wales? I doubt it.

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9 hours ago, mrtickle said:

I feel your pain.

The other one is ditherers at roundabouts. When they are first in the queue, and there is a normal sized gap, but they don't go because they are too timid and scared of driving. Oh no, they have to have a gap so huge that only comes around once in ten minutes before they have the confidence to move.

An old colleague frustrated with these people, that he had to suffer regularly, said he wanted to buy an "old banger" and just push them out :)

 

 

You people are insane. Every driver has to judge for themselves whether a maneuver is safe or not. Focus on your own driving.

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15 hours ago, zilly said:

Four miles..? So why aren't you cycling - or even walking? Do you need the car during the day for work purposes?

Whenever I read comments like this I always chuckle as it appears completely lost on the person who's complaining that they ARE the problem...

I really can't stand cycling I used to do it (purely because I struggled to afford the bus) but I hated every second of it and felt a mug soaked to my skin fixing a puncture while people drove past in their nice warm cars. I used to cycle 4 miles but I found at the end of a 10-12 hour day I was wrecked and what was a 20-30 cycle to work became a 45-50 mins cycle home. I commuted along a valley where the wind only ever blew eastwards so cycling home against the wind, particularly in bad weather, was hellish. Also young kids drink on my local cycle path at night smashing glass bottles everywhere and I typically had 1-2 punctures a week. 

A better question might be why not take the bus? Where I live the annual cost of a bus pass (£1200) is more than enough to own run, insure and fuel a cheap runaround. Bus prices are out of control and need to fall significantly. Also there isn't an inch of bus lane or bus priority where I live so the buses are no faster than a car. 

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2 minutes ago, regprentice said:

I really can't stand cycling I used to do it (purely because I struggled to afford the bus) but I hated every second of it and felt a mug soaked to my skin fixing a puncture while people drove past in their nice warm cars. I used to cycle 4 miles but I found at the end of a 10-12 hour day I was wrecked and what was a 20-30 cycle to work became a 45-50 mins cycle home. I commuted along a valley where the wind only ever blew eastwards so cycling home against the wind, particularly in bad weather, was hellish. Also young kids drink on my local cycle path at night smashing glass bottles everywhere and I typically had 1-2 punctures a week. 

There are simple solutions to all of these problems: a decent Goretex jacket and leg coverings to keep the rain out, kevlar-protected and/or tubeless tyres, an electric bike to help with windy or hilly conditions.

The main problem with cycle commuting is if you have to share the road with petrolhead nutcases who think their commute is the only one that matters. Britain needs decent segregated cycle paths to reduce the amount of conflict between bicycle and car users.

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30 minutes ago, Dorkins said:

You people are insane. Every driver has to judge for themselves whether a maneuver is safe or not. Focus on your own driving.

100% incorrect sorry. I am an advanced rider through the IAM and the problem with your comment is that if everyone was trained to that level It would be true. The average driver cannot judge for themselves - because they have taken no interests in improving their perception skills or understand the capability of the machine they are driving ( doesn’t have to be formal training just a proactive interest in driving better)

The arrogance of the majority of road users that they don’t need to understand the law, require any form of extra training or move swiftly and safely for the benefit of everyone is breath taking. The principles of advanced driving/ riding are based on the Police structure of machine control and road raft - which enshrines fast, safe progress.

My favourite hates are :

The 40/40 brigade - 40 on a single carriageway country road with a speed limit of 60 and then continuing at the same speed in a 30

People who won’t let you in when a road goes from two to one lanes. Instead make a self righteous queue  in one lane that can affect a junction further back. The correct technique is to use both lanes until the point of restriction and zip together alternative cars from both lanes

At any junction or roundabout unless a lane says ahead only rather than just an arrow you can can use either lane to progress in any direction - so why do people take this a personal affront ?

Finally as a fast motorcyclist I would probably be dead if I took your last line of advice. Competent, safe driving is about total control of your machine and understanding what every  twit is about to do (again in roadcraft every other vehicle is considered a hazard)  In fact ROSPA drivers learn under their system to look under, over and around every vehicle to see what’s beyond to progress fast and safely - their attention is totally outside their vehicle.

in fact I would say if you have to concentrate so hard on driving your vehicle - your not really fit to be on the roads are you ?

I would say if you want to reduce your insurance premiums, enjoy your driving and be a safe as you can be it would be insane not to undertake advanced driving - best £149 a driver or rider can spend 

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2 hours ago, GregBowman said:

100% incorrect sorry. I am an advanced rider through the IAM and the problem with your comment is that if everyone was trained to that level It would be true. The average driver cannot judge for themselves - because they have taken no interests in improving their perception skills or understand the capability of the machine they are driving ( doesn’t have to be formal training just a proactive interest in driving better)

The arrogance of the majority of road users that they don’t need to understand the law, require any form of extra training or move swiftly and safely for the benefit of everyone is breath taking. The principles of advanced driving/ riding are based on the Police structure of machine control and road raft - which enshrines fast, safe progress.

My favourite hates are :

The 40/40 brigade - 40 on a single carriageway country road with a speed limit of 60 and then continuing at the same speed in a 30

....and just you trying overtaking these bloody idiots as they dribble along at 40mph in a 60mph zone when you get to a suitably safe and convenient place to overtake. They SUDDENLY find their right foot, and horns blaring!

Excellent post, I agreed with all of it.

 

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13 minutes ago, mrtickle said:

....and just you trying overtaking these bloody idiots as they dribble along at 40mph in a 60mph zone when you get to a suitably safe and convenient place to overtake. They SUDDENLY find their right foot, and horns blaring!

Excellent post, I agreed with all of it.

 

??? will keep me chuckling all day - they find their right foot and lights flashing horn going .. which of course will aid their limited observation skills no end ?? since it’s unlikeky the goons can multi task

Reminds me of those aircraft crash programmes - often pilot work level over load the cause - always think of that when I pass someone manically gripping the steering wheel with those tunnel vision eyes bulging on them !  Scary !

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