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marko

Here We Are In 2006...

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Hi all,

Question: imagine if an Earth-like planet suddenly appeared next door to ours, and there was a bridge across to it that we could easily cross. Would you go up-sticks and settle over there?

I know I would. In a shot. Imagine what it would do to house prices back home!

I have been working today on something to do with the search for liquid water on Mars, and I was looking at Mars Global Surveyor images of the red planet...I slipped into a daydream, where I was in a manned vessel on an approach hyperbola entering orbit. It was just a winsome daydream, taking me back to a childhood where I thought these things would be possible one day...

...then I was back in reality: a reality where our society is run for the benefit of con-men and bankers who seem hell-bent on enslaving the masses with debt; a reality where we are becoming more and more infantilised by ridiculous TV big-brother, Jordan, pop-addled brain-dead crap to the point where we cannot even recognise the real world anymore; where most people have no real technical education or understanding of the basis of our technological society; where we are cynically targeted by advertisements to try and make us buy stuff we don't remotely need; where the average Joe is tied down by mortgage payments that force him/her to work in a shitty job which doesn't allow him to dream about what is possible; where the best paid 'jobs' nowadays seem to consist of trying to fleece your fellow man, make him gamble, make him buy shite, sell him a baseless new age 'therapy', or rip him off in countless other ways; where national leaders and religious nutters seem hell-bent on taking us all into armageddon by refusing to deal with problems and just letting them fester and worsen...

It just seems to me that we live in an age of reduced expectations - most people seem to be employed in fruitless jobs that either at best add nothing to society or at worst actively involve exploiting people. Our leaders are a joke, nothing more than puppets for vested interests whose only concern is that THEY and their children remain in their parasitic position at the top of society...forever.

When I look at the way our society is 'organised', and how we just seem to be headed towards a dark future. I used to attach a lot of importance to space exploration, because exploration talked to the human spirit in a way that cannot be described - this sense of looking beyond ourselves, standing on the incredible achievements of our ancestors who crossed oceans and built cities out of desire, and having the courage and humanity and SENSE OF RESPONSIBILITY to take the next step.

I also thought that the sense of a frontier was a very important requirement for society to remain healthy. Our frontiers have all gone long ago, and we don't have the collective will to make the next step. We are turning in on ourselves...becoming self-obsessed, and society is ossifying as a result.

I think we desperately need a narrative to explain to ourselves our position in the existence, and what we are here for. I thought that in this technological age space exploration was an important part of that narrative. Fat chance now...we're just too weak IMO. All I can see is a society of greedy, scared people puppeteered by an overclass of evil money-men. The narrative is 'me, me, me'...'get what I want and to hell with everyone else'....and this is actively fomented by the f**kers who profit from it.

Unless things change (and I don't think they will) then dystopia awaits. What has this all got to do with house prices? Not much I suppose, but I wanted to get it off my chest!!

Rant over.

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Hi all,

Question: imagine if an Earth-like planet suddenly appeared next door to ours, and there was a bridge across to it that we could easily cross. Would you go up-sticks and settle over there?

I know I would. In a shot. Imagine what it would do to house prices back home!

I have been working today on something to do with the search for liquid water on Mars, and I was looking at Mars Global Surveyor images of the red planet...I slipped into a daydream, where I was in a manned vessel on an approach hyperbola entering orbit. It was just a winsome daydream, taking me back to a childhood where I thought these things would be possible one day...

...then I was back in reality: a reality where our society is run for the benefit of con-men and bankers who seem hell-bent on enslaving the masses with debt; a reality where we are becoming more and more infantilised by ridiculous TV big-brother, Jordan, pop-addled brain-dead crap to the point where we cannot even recognise the real world anymore; where most people have no real technical education or understanding of the basis of our technological society; where we are cynically targeted by advertisements to try and make us buy stuff we don't remotely need; where the average Joe is tied down by mortgage payments that force him/her to work in a shitty job which doesn't allow him to dream about what is possible; where the best paid 'jobs' nowadays seem to consist of trying to fleece your fellow man, make him gamble, make him buy shite, sell him a baseless new age 'therapy', or rip him off in countless other ways; where national leaders and religious nutters seem hell-bent on taking us all into armageddon by refusing to deal with problems and just letting them fester and worsen...

It just seems to me that we live in an age of reduced expectations - most people seem to be employed in fruitless jobs that either at best add nothing to society or at worst actively involve exploiting people. Our leaders are a joke, nothing more than puppets for vested interests whose only concern is that THEY and their children remain in their parasitic position at the top of society...forever.

When I look at the way our society is 'organised', and how we just seem to be headed towards a dark future. I used to attach a lot of importance to space exploration, because exploration talked to the human spirit in a way that cannot be described - this sense of looking beyond ourselves, standing on the incredible achievements of our ancestors who crossed oceans and built cities out of desire, and having the courage and humanity and SENSE OF RESPONSIBILITY to take the next step.

I also thought that the sense of a frontier was a very important requirement for society to remain healthy. Our frontiers have all gone long ago, and we don't have the collective will to make the next step. We are turning in on ourselves...becoming self-obsessed, and society is ossifying as a result.

I think we desperately need a narrative to explain to ourselves our position in the existence, and what we are here for. I thought that in this technological age space exploration was an important part of that narrative. Fat chance now...we're just too weak IMO. All I can see is a society of greedy, scared people puppeteered by an overclass of evil money-men. The narrative is 'me, me, me'...'get what I want and to hell with everyone else'....and this is actively fomented by the f**kers who profit from it.

Unless things change (and I don't think they will) then dystopia awaits. What has this all got to do with house prices? Not much I suppose, but I wanted to get it off my chest!!

Rant over.

Just chill a bit. I rant and nothing changes (other than me getting angry) so I have decided for myself at least not to worry so much about some of the valid points your raise (some seem a bit lefty paranoid as well though :rolleyes: .

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Just chill a bit. I rant and nothing changes (other than me getting angry) so I have decided for myself at least not to worry so much about some of the valid points your raise (some seem a bit lefty paranoid as well though :rolleyes: .

I am not a paranoid lefty. I am just getting sick of the way we are headed...I used to be optimistic about the future, but now I am not (of course that could be a result of too much time on this forum :blink: )

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I am not a paranoid lefty. I am just getting sick of the way we are headed...I used to be optimistic about the future, but now I am not (of course that could be a result of too much time on this forum :blink: )

Actually i do find too much time on HPC a bit depressing (but addictive.)

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I am not a paranoid lefty. I am just getting sick of the way we are headed...I used to be optimistic about the future, but now I am not (of course that could be a result of too much time on this forum :blink: )

I know where you are coming frmo marko.

Call me soft. Call me naive but there's a lot of things in our culture which f**king depress me. Two examples in the last week:

1) Chantelle (a blonde-bimbo non-celebrity) winning "Celebrity" Big Brother and consequently "earning" the right to 100s of 000s and an easy life for doing what exactly?

2) Overheard conversation in my gym:

Lawyer 1: So where you off to this week?

Lawyer 2: Basildon.

Lawyer 1: Oh yeah?

Lawyer 2: Representing some Turkish drug-dealer and yuo know what?

Lawyer 1: ...

Lawyer 2: The money is FANTASTIC.

Lawyer 1: There must be a way we can get more work off the army...loads of GBH & rape cases in Basra.

Why do most of us bother?

There are people out there who will earn their fortune being a vapid no-brain non-celebrity and those who will earn theirs proudly defending scumbags.

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When I look at the way our society is 'organised', and how we just seem to be headed towards a dark future. I used to attach a lot of importance to space exploration, because exploration talked to the human spirit in a way that cannot be described - this sense of looking beyond ourselves, standing on the incredible achievements of our ancestors who crossed oceans and built cities out of desire, and having the courage and humanity and SENSE OF RESPONSIBILITY to take the next step.

It's interesting to consider that around 66 years elapsed between the Wright brothers making the first powered flight and the Moon landings in 1969. In the 37 years since then, we seem hardly to have progressed in exploring the "final frontier". Granted, we have sent robotic craft to most of the other planets in the Solar System (although in the case of Uranus and Neptune this was with the Voyager craft launched in 1977), but it is manned exploration that really captures the imagination. All we have achieved there is to send people a couple of hundred miles up to low Earth orbit (the Moon, by comparison, is around 240,000 miles away) to conduct some fairly unremarkable experiments in zero gravity.

Where are the breakthrough technologies for sending humans swiftly and safely to Mars, let alone the Moon? I agree with Marko that society is not organised in a way that really pushes us to bring about this kind of progress (the same thought could be applied to issues such as climate change). Politicians? - don't think in the long term as the next election is only a few years away (and think what it would do to the budget!). Business? - they've got some of the best engineers working for them, but will only do it for the right price. The people? - they're interested, but more in a Star Trek/sci-fi way, and will readily agree that it is a waste of money if someone suggests that it would mean global poverty etc could not also be tackled.

One day we may look back at the Apollo landings as a semi-mythical era when mankind was able to escape briefly from the planet that he is rapidly rendering uninhabitable.

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I know where you are coming frmo marko.

Call me soft. Call me naive but there's a lot of things in our culture which f**king depress me. Two examples in the last week:

1) Chantelle (a blonde-bimbo non-celebrity) winning "Celebrity" Big Brother and consequently "earning" the right to 100s of 000s and an easy life for doing what exactly?

2) Overheard conversation in my gym:

Lawyer 1: So where you off to this week?

Lawyer 2: Basildon.

Lawyer 1: Oh yeah?

Lawyer 2: Representing some Turkish drug-dealer and yuo know what?

Lawyer 1: ...

Lawyer 2: The money is FANTASTIC.

Lawyer 1: There must be a way we can get more work off the army...loads of GBH & rape cases in Basra.

Why do most of us bother?

There are people out there who will earn their fortune being a vapid no-brain non-celebrity and those who will earn theirs proudly defending scumbags.

Yup, there it is right there. Lawyers. Scum.

I know it sounds a bit wacky when we discuss things like space travel etc....but I take that to be a reflection of the extent to which our society has ruined our ability to reach for great goals. Don't get me wrong, sending people into space is bloody difficult and not a cake-walk. And also, the robotic probes we have sent in the past few years have given a fantastic scientific return. But when I see Big Brother on the TV, and I hear stories about Lawyer scum, it just depresses me and makes me realise that the focus of our society is just all wrong.

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Yup, there it is right there. Lawyers. Scum.

I know it sounds a bit wacky when we discuss things like space travel etc....but I take that to be a reflection of the extent to which our society has ruined our ability to reach for great goals. Don't get me wrong, sending people into space is bloody difficult and not a cake-walk. And also, the robotic probes we have sent in the past few years have given a fantastic scientific return. But when I see Big Brother on the TV, and I hear stories about Lawyer scum, it just depresses me and makes me realise that the focus of our society is just all wrong.

Sending people into space is bloody difficult with our current technology, just as it used to be highly dangerous to cross the high seas. This will only change when we improve our technology. I agree that the unmanned probes have given some great results (e.g. Galileo at Jupiter), but they have been few and far between. I suppose this just reflects society's priorities, as you say.

ps - I'm a lawyer by the way (don't shoot me!)

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Sending people into space is bloody difficult with our current technology, just as it used to be highly dangerous to cross the high seas. This will only change when we improve our technology. I agree that the unmanned probes have given some great results (e.g. Galileo at Jupiter), but they have been few and far between. I suppose this just reflects society's priorities, as you say.

ps - I'm a lawyer by the way (don't shoot me!)

God-damned lawyer!! Only kidding, I am sure you are a nice guy...but lawyers do have a 'reputation' it is undeniable...a few bad eggs?

There are plenty of engineers who work on weaponry as well, so we as a profession are not blameless by any means.

It is just society's priorities...Big Brother, Lottery, nice shoes, etc. etc.

...and all the while, some whopping great asteroid with our collective name on it is ambling through the cosmos...

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The old order is falling apart because a breakthrough is about to occur.

Or the old order, by controlling the use and applications of the Singularity, could enshrine it's power for evermore.

I am struck by the potential of the neuron chip interface experiment as a precursor to the development of thought reading technology. That's your last vestige of independence gone then.

We used to see technology as empowering and liberating but more and more I am envisaging the totally negative aspects to much that is on the horizon.

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It's interesting to consider that around 66 years elapsed between the Wright brothers making the first powered flight and the Moon landings in 1969. In the 37 years since then, we seem hardly to have progressed in exploring the "final frontier". Granted, we have sent robotic craft to most of the other planets in the Solar System (although in the case of Uranus and Neptune this was with the Voyager craft launched in 1977), but it is manned exploration that really captures the imagination. All we have achieved there is to send people a couple of hundred miles up to low Earth orbit (the Moon, by comparison, is around 240,000 miles away) to conduct some fairly unremarkable experiments in zero gravity.

Where are the breakthrough technologies for sending humans swiftly and safely to Mars, let alone the Moon? I agree with Marko that society is not organised in a way that really pushes us to bring about this kind of progress (the same thought could be applied to issues such as climate change). Politicians? - don't think in the long term as the next election is only a few years away (and think what it would do to the budget!). Business? - they've got some of the best engineers working for them, but will only do it for the right price. The people? - they're interested, but more in a Star Trek/sci-fi way, and will readily agree that it is a waste of money if someone suggests that it would mean global poverty etc could not also be tackled.

One day we may look back at the Apollo landings as a semi-mythical era when mankind was able to escape briefly from the planet that he is rapidly rendering uninhabitable.

Don't get me started on this. Ah, OK then...

Nixon slashed the budget for NASA upon coming into office and effectively ended the Apollo missions. The alternative was to build the shuttle with the hope, as we all know, of having a cheaper and reusable spacecraft.

Alas, they cut the corners too much and we have all seen the resulting loss in life. These cuts saw many of the men who had pioneered the Saturn, Gemini and Apollo missions leave NASA in disgust the 1970s and 1980s. Many felt that the shuttle budget had been cut back too much for safety reasons - sadly proved right since - whilst at the same time, ironically, feeling that NASA was spending too much money on the wrong type of spacecraft and how to get into space - basically NASA itself became the problem and they made putting a Man into space too complex and too darn expensive.

So, you end up with Engineers going off and doing their own thing and now, as we have seen of late, private orgnisations putting men to the limits of our atmosphere. Truth be told, the shuttle program should have been cancelled and resources diverted to other means - i.e. getting Men back on the Moon and on to Mars - instead of labouring with the shuttle and with the, yawn, international space station. Of course, if you are paranoid then you probably believe the Yanks need the shuttle to continue flying so theycan ferry troops to and from their great invisible space base! :lol:

The part of NASA that sends unmanned spacecraft into space actually does very well and is very successful although, even there, you have to question the budgets. But heck, at least they have more sense than to trust their space mission to a bunch of OU lecturers in cardies!!! :blink:

As someone once said, Man will oneday return to the Moon and when that day comes future generations will ask why it took so long?

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Just chill a bit. I rant and nothing changes (other than me getting angry) so I have decided for myself at least not to worry so much about some of the valid points your raise (some seem a bit lefty paranoid as well though :rolleyes: .

Is the answer really just to 'chill a bit' - isn't that how we've all ended up in this mess in the first place? When is it too late to make a stand? When you've become corrupted yourself? When you so mind controlled by the media/society that the lobotomy is irreversible? I empathise strongly with the original poster, it makes you wanna just jump off a cliff sometimes. It makes me mad and it makes me want to do something but I just don't know what :angry:

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Is the answer really just to 'chill a bit' - isn't that how we've all ended up in this mess in the first place? When is it too late to make a stand? When you've become corrupted yourself? When you so mind controlled by the media/society that the lobotomy is irreversible? I empathise strongly with the original poster, it makes you wanna just jump off a cliff sometimes. It makes me mad and it makes me want to do something but I just don't know what :angry:

seriously, just chill a bit. just kidding.

its a mess, but everything goes in cycles, relax and watch it unfold!

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Lawyers? I thought we were in England...

Solicitor, lawyer - professional liar by any other name, it's all the same.

The word 'lawyer' actually comes from the Latin -'to lie', which is actually why 'lawyer' sounds like 'liar'. Bet you didn't know that. (I just made it up, so you couldn't have) :rolleyes:

Anyway, I've decided, after reading this thread and several others in this forum, that I am going to 'do something'. I'm going to start up a resistance movement based on the power of 'No'! If enough people refuse the shite we're being spun, things will have to give at some point. Vive le resistance! :ph34r:

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Nixon slashed the budget for NASA upon coming into office and effectively ended the Apollo missions. The alternative was to build the shuttle with the hope, as we all know, of having a cheaper and reusable spacecraft.

Not really true. As I understand it, Nixon was willing to cut NASA a lot of slack if they could come up with a space program which could be carried out for a more reasonable amount of money than Apollo... problem was, NASA kept coming up with plans that would be far more expensive than Apollo, assuming they still had a blank cheque.

When they finally began to accept reality, even NASA knew they couldn't fly the shuttle as cheaply as they claimed: for example, while claiming they could fly fifty times a year, they could only build enough fuel tanks for a fraction of that flight rate. All their claims at the time were just nonsense, as should now be obvious to everyone.

The unmanned side of NASA do a good job with relatively limited amounts of money, but the manned side have no idea of how to do anything on a budget. Hence we have a vastly expensive, dangerous and unreliable space shuttle at around a billion dollars a flight carrying pizza to a vastly expensive and unreliable space station which only exists so the shuttle has something to do: were it not for the space station, the shuttles would be heading to the Smithsonian tomorrow.

And in the future, we'll have a twenty-first century Apollo capsule flying on a rocket whose primary design goal is to keep the people who work on the shuttle employed. Not a smart way to get into space, and certainly not a cheap way... but great if you're a politician who wants to spread pork around the southern states.

As someone once said, Man will oneday return to the Moon and when that day comes future generations will ask why it took so long?

Because it never made sense in the first place: the Apollo flights were a political stunt which was pretty much at the limit of what technology could achieve. They were also counterproductive in the long run, by removing one of the most significant reasons why people would want to go into space.

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time for a moon base

must be some profit in doing this, perhaps a couple of space stations inbetween to get repairs done and stop off for a bite to eat on your way.

if only something could be invented with enough thrust to leave the atmosphere without millions of gallons of pollutants each time.

perhaps we could open a portol in the atmosphere between space and earth that a ordinary sealed ship could travel through, then it could be used like the channel tunnel

anyone know the composition of elements on the moon and if its worth mining for these?

Edited by homeless

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IMHO we'll have a moon base when Hilton decides to build one.

As for lunar materials, there's nothing on the moon which is worth the cost of going there and shipping it back right now... about the best cases that have been made for industrialising the moon were O'Neill's plans for building solar power satellites, and recent plans to collect Helium-3 for fusion (of course we need Helium-3 fusion reactors first). Both of them require much cheaper means of getting to and from the moon than we currently have.

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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