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Big Orange

UK Retail Declines Over Christmas

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OK, there's this to highlight things not going swimmingly with the flagging Capitalist system:

UK retail sales fell by 1.5% in December compared with November, the biggest monthly fall since the EU referendum, official figures show.

The Office for National Statistics (ONS) said many shoppers had shifted spending to November to take advantage of Black Friday offers.

It comes as Carpetright and clothing chain Bonmarche were the latest retailers to report a tough Christmas.

A squeeze on consumer spending also led to a difficult December for UK shops.

Debenhams, Marks and Spencer, House of Fraser, and Mothercare were among the other High Street retailers which reported a decline in sales.

Inflation has been outstripping increases in wages, denting the spending power of shoppers.

BBC

Brexit gets indirectly blamed yet again, though I get the impression it's a mismash of shrinking middle class, slow motion economic implosion ever since 2007/8, and dinosaur high street companies (ie. Debenhams etc) not adapting well to Amazon and its ilk (with BHS going kaboom fairly recently and Woolworths long gone). 

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Interesting, seems as though this might actually be the one year where Christmas retail sales do actually disappoint. However, the report is being somewhat sneaky, comparing with November (which, of course, includes Black Friday), as opposed to the previous December.

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Food sales are up, so are used goods, retail sales includes both high street and online purchases......prehaps people are giving money, food and experiences as gifts......not more stuff with fancy packaging......using the gifts over the next two months or so should prevent shopping for what was gifted......also time to repay what was spent using debt whilst couple of months CT free......then the holiday to save for!!;)

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13 hours ago, Big Orange said:

OK, there's this to highlight things not going swimmingly with the flagging Capitalist system:

It's not capitalism, but some  blend of Statist-socialism with some freedom thrown in to give the convenient appearance of capitalism to idiots and the ignorant.

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I'm still seeing clothes shops with plenty of stock left on their sale rails. People have, I think, generally got enough 'stuff' to last them until they actually need to buy more.

Companies who engineer obsolescence into their products by reducing quality levels can only do so much to bring forward repeat sales before eventually the customer just feels alienated.

Councils who do their utmost to make the 'brick and mortar' shopping experience as unpleasant as possible through things like dirty streets and oppressive parking charges are also to blame.

Edited by Diver Dan

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26 minutes ago, Diver Dan said:

 Councils who do their utmost to make the 'brick and mortar' shopping experience as unpleasant as possible through things like dirty streets and oppressive parking charges are also to blame.

Westfield charge around £5 an hour to park yet people go there and in Orford Road, Walthamstow business is flourishing where motor vehicles have been banned outright.

Councils have a tough job keeping streets clean when the citizens spit, drop cig ends, gum and litter everywhere 

Not everything is dependent on the car, in fact if the lazy British didn't rely on the car they'd have about £5k more in disposible income. 

It's because the economy is ******ed and people are ******ed. People only visit out of town retail parks for shopping these days. If you want a coffee or to put a fiver on the nags, you go to the "council bricks and mortar" High Street. 

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15 hours ago, Big Orange said:

OK, there's this to highlight things not going swimmingly with the flagging Capitalist system:

"UK retail sales fell by 1.5% in December compared with November, the biggest monthly fall since the EU referendum, official figures show.

The Office for National Statistics (ONS) said many shoppers had shifted spending to November to take advantage of Black Friday offers."

I'm not sure that people spending on Black Friday instead of in December is really a sign that Capitalism as a whole is struggling.

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3 hours ago, dkujsbap said:

Westfield charge around £5 an hour to park yet people go there and in Orford Road, Walthamstow business is flourishing where motor vehicles have been banned outright.

Councils have a tough job keeping streets clean when the citizens spit, drop cig ends, gum and litter everywhere 

Not everything is dependent on the car, in fact if the lazy British didn't rely on the car they'd have about £5k more in disposible income. 

It's because the economy is ******ed and people are ******ed. People only visit out of town retail parks for shopping these days. If you want a coffee or to put a fiver on the nags, you go to the "council bricks and mortar" High Street. 

Frankly I don't even see the point in going to a shopping centre or retail park when pretty much anything expensive that I want to buy can be obtained more cheaply and with more choice, online.  And usually delivery within 1-3 days.

I still go to grocery stores and supermarkets for fresh food but that's about it.  Even if I wanted to shop locally most of the nearby shops to me seem to be coffee shops, nail/ tanning/ beauty salons and charity shops. 

It seems to me that if you wanted to open some sort of new 'retail' location, the thing to do would be to set up a big delivery/collection point for online orders and then have facilities like fast food franchise, convenience store,  coffee shop and petrol station (self serve) on campus to capitalise on the footfall of people coming to collect their purchases.

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4 hours ago, Locke said:

It's not capitalism, but some  blend of Statist-socialism with some freedom thrown in to give the convenient appearance of capitalism to idiots and the ignorant.

You off to Davos again this year Locke? - I hear Elton John is going - so probably better than last year.

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...popped into a nice store and the rails were jammed literally with clothing, good quality so called 'designer' names......everything was reduced I thought it said reduced to £30, it was reduced to £130......nobody will imo buy it for £130, wrong colour, wrong season, wrong time.......what will become of it all?....surely all this over purchased and not sold stuff eats into profit margins? or was all the profit made from the few items sold at £170?;)

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17 hours ago, jonb2 said:

You off to Davos again this year Locke? - I hear Elton John is going - so probably better than last year.

A big meeting of Socialist anti-capitalists on how to keep the cattle subdued and compliant? I'm not sure what your point is?

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39 minutes ago, Locke said:

A big meeting of Socialist anti-capitalists on how to keep the cattle subdued and compliant? I'm not sure what your point is?

Really??

Do you visit this planet often?

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5 hours ago, jonb2 said:

Really??

Do you visit this planet often?

Wool Status: Pulled

These people use the government to fleece you and then spin you around to blame liberty, perpetuating your own indenture.

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1 hour ago, Locke said:

Wool Status: Pulled

These people use the government to fleece you and then spin you around to blame liberty, perpetuating your own indenture.

 

Interesting view. It seems a question of definitions.

I agree it's not capitalism as Adam Smith planned it. But as I said in another thread, he knew that greed needed to be ironed out and the only people that could do that is another 'independent' body - for his vision, the government. Since lobbying is now a major subversion of this system  - you have a point. In yet another thread, I re-quoted that we have socialism for the rich and capitalism for the rest of us. So maybe your definition is right?

If somehow Adam Smith's vision of free market capitalism was adhered to, then there would be no problem. But alas people, corruption and greed seem inevitable. This in itself makes capitalism as idealistic as say - communism.

I have seen you argue for libertarianism. This too is idealistic IMO as only in groups and cooperation has mankind moved forward. Everybody for himself and individualism of the self is all very well, but no man is an island.

Most of life these days is about looking backwards - or at best standing still. Conservatism.

For reference:

https://aeon.co/essays/we-should-look-closely-at-what-adam-smith-actually-believed

We need progress and a new system from scratch. We have stopped thinking and imagining.

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2 hours ago, jonb2 said:

I have seen you argue for libertarianism. This too is idealistic IMO as only in groups and cooperation has mankind moved forward. Everybody for himself and individualism of the self is all very well, but no man is an island.

And how is libertarianism conflicting this view? It's exactly the opposite - because the humankind naturally evolves thru cooperation. All that is asked for is for this process to be left alone where there is no need for interventions, i.e. where market forces do a better job than a centralised body. You don't need to fly to some planet Bong - look around and you will find countries with relatively bigger economic freedom, less burdensome taxation and significantly higher living standard than the US or UK that are increasingly becoming bigger and bigger apologies to capitalism. And Davos is indeed  an event of collectivists of different persuasions -  withprobably fascism (or corporatism) being the most represented faction. 

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The high street is dying from many different causes. Malls, retail parks, online shopping, peak stuff, peak rents . . . 

Turning shops into homes would be a useful project for these sad, abandoned areas in our town centres.

 

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15 hours ago, jonb2 said:

Interesting view. It seems a question of definitions.

Often the case.

Capitalism: absolute property rights

State: an entity which claims the exclusive moral right to initiate force

As soon as you have any kind of State, you have moved away from Capitalism.

 

The State is by definition, use of physical violence. This means that the people who rise to the top of a State are the ones most willing to abuse power over others.

A State is not a prerequisite for cooperation as a group.

 

I like 'kat's word 

12 hours ago, Meerkat said:

corporatism

Which is exactly what we have. Corporations are a fiction of the government which are given special privileges and rights in exchange for some portion of their wealth. This makes them a de facto branch of the State.

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27 minutes ago, Locke said:

Often the case.

Capitalism: absolute property rights

State: an entity which claims the exclusive moral right to initiate force

As soon as you have any kind of State, you have moved away from Capitalism.

 

The State is by definition, use of physical violence. This means that the people who rise to the top of a State are the ones most willing to abuse power over others.

A State is not a prerequisite for cooperation as a group.

 

I like 'kat's word 

Which is exactly what we have. Corporations are a fiction of the government which are given special privileges and rights in exchange for some portion of their wealth. This makes them a de facto branch of the State.

 Indeed, as I just posted on the Amazon Vat dodgers hpc thread  here

DON’T BE TOO HARD ON US MULTINATIONALS (Like Amazon): TREASURY TO HMRC https://waitingfortax.com/2018/01/23/dont-be-too-hard-on-us-multinational-treasury-to-hmrc/

 Whitehall IT chief ignored rules to take Amazon job

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/whitehall-it-chief-driskell-joined-amazon-after-work-on-deal-s8qwlmz30 

 

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If Christmas was bad, cant wait for January's figures! Some of the shops I have been in have been dead. In Toys R us, the staff were wearing scarves because it was that cold.

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2 hours ago, NoGo said:

If Christmas was bad, cant wait for January's figures! Some of the shops I have been in have been dead. In Toys R us, the staff were wearing scarves because it was that cold.

Funny you should mention this current January dip; I am also looking forward to the spin they manage to put on this months figures.  On my few forays into the High Street this month the shops do seem quieter than even I expected for January.

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8 hours ago, dougless said:

Funny you should mention this current January dip; I am also looking forward to the spin they manage to put on this months figures.  On my few forays into the High Street this month the shops do seem quieter than even I expected for January.

Amazon are pushing out a voucher £10 off for £50 spend tomorrow (25th) . I don’t think it covers 3rd parties. Maybe a grab for those getting paid on 25th of the month. I use them but ethnically I shouldn’t as I don’t agree with the amount of tax they pay!

Edited by Ash4781

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  • 406 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • Even
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      • up 5%



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