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40% of women are now the main bread winners.... anyone agree?

Men are just as good and just as capable as women when it comes to childminding and home building......many men would imo prefer to care/work in the home rather than toil at work, visa versa.;)

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18 minutes ago, winkie said:

40% of women are now the main bread winners.... anyone agree?

Men are just as good and just as capable as women when it comes to childminding and home building......many men would imo prefer to care/work in the home rather than toil at work, visa versa.;)

Long may it continue. I'd much rather be a house husband than the main breadwinner.

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1 hour ago, honkydonkey said:

Long may it continue. I'd much rather be a house husband than the main breadwinner.

Alas Mrs Fishfinger won't allow me to that despite the fact she earns twice as much as me. When the Daily Mail gives her the go ahead then happy days..

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1 hour ago, honkydonkey said:

Long may it continue. I'd much rather be a house husband than the main breadwinner.

I work in one client predominately female where many are the main breadwinner - in all honesty they don’t look very happy bunnies, we aren’t asexual robots millions of years of evolution have led to the traditional female nurturing instinct and the male more aggressive ( a generalisation ) breadwinner role 

Male suicide rates in the age group 45 and under massively increasing as are heart attacks, strokes and cancers in high flying woman 

seems a zero sum game to me . 

The most content couples I have always come across are where the husband and wife can enjoy traditional roles, I don’t know the science but men have evolved all sorts of support mechanisms to help in that role from their natural clubby nature to the beer on a Friday, and a young family value their Mum 

And let’s put down once and for all the career bull, unless you have equity it is just a job without overtime 

And for you personally HD be careful what you wish for I know two House husbands who were binned for new models who fulfilled a traditional role

Conversely a young couple where both have to work to put a roof over their heads is disgusting and a sad indictment of our society 

 

Edited by Greg Bowman

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1 hour ago, Greg Bowman said:

Male suicide rates in the age group 45 and under massively increasing as are heart attacks, strokes and cancers in high flying woman 

Is there a report on this? I haven't heard of this before

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Women have been coned and are now waking up to that fact. They have been told that they can have it all Career, family, supportive partner, happy productive life, material possessions etc.. Very few people men or women get it all something has to give.

I could give many antidotes where women (from the very top of the career ladder downwards) have moaned about the trap they have fallen into and one lady a solicitor said " those women who burnt their bras in the 60's have not done us any favours". It does not just impact on them but also their husbands , children , parents and in -laws (free child care) who have all had to adapt to the stresses the situation has created. 

I recently spoke to an Air Hostess who rose at 02.30am. Living  in Eastbourne she checked in at Gatwick for 4.55am , one and a half hours prior to a 6.25am take off. A delay of 90 minutes was causing her concern as she had to  return from the flight to the Canaries and pick her baby up by 6pm, then go on to pick her 7 year old up from an after school club. She explained that her husband had got the children up that morning and had dropped them off before work. That is an existence not a career. 

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12 hours ago, Bsmf said:

Is there a report on this? I haven't heard of this before

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/20/britain-male-suicide-rate-tragedy-failure#comments

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/06/160616071935.htm

Sadly to me this isn’t rocket science (excuse the pun) its just another version of anyone can be anything we are all gender fluid robots

Rip more compassionate caring and collegiate individuals away from their family, stick them in environments based around male style competiveness, ensure they are responsible for the families financial security and guess what ?

This is entirely different from two couples both working the same ( whatever the pay rate )

The article also says 

Men with tough work schedules appeared to fare much better, found the researchers, who analyzed data from interviews with almost 7,500 people who were part of the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth.

Again not rocket science. Men have a different biological makeup and have evolved support mechanisms from the Friday night pub to the squash league 

The truth is whilst most younger generations think boomers are compassion less goons - every morning I see a young Mum unloading a tired and plainly irrated 3 year old in the rain to go to nursery at 7 I could cry 

( the answer isn’t the easy get out House husband route )

it’s not right - something to do with house prices but something to do with the ****** fostered upon woman that they can have it all 

Edited by Greg Bowman

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17 hours ago, winkie said:

40% of women are now the main bread winners.... anyone agree?

Men are just as good and just as capable as women when it comes to childminding and home building......many men would imo prefer to care/work in the home rather than toil at work, visa versa.;)

Main bread winners i.e. earning the money.

Or main benefits receiver?

From experience, the latter seems more likely than the former.

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16 hours ago, Greg Bowman said:

I work in one client predominately female where many are the main breadwinner - in all honesty they don’t look very happy bunnies, we aren’t asexual robots millions of years of evolution have led to the traditional female nurturing instinct and the male more aggressive ( a generalisation ) breadwinner role 

Male suicide rates in the age group 45 and under massively increasing as are heart attacks, strokes and cancers in high flying woman 

seems a zero sum game to me . 

The most content couples I have always come across are where the husband and wife can enjoy traditional roles, I don’t know the science but men have evolved all sorts of support mechanisms to help in that role from their natural clubby nature to the beer on a Friday, and a young family value their Mum 

And let’s put down once and for all the career bull, unless you have equity it is just a job without overtime 

And for you personally HD be careful what you wish for I know two House husbands who were binned for new models who fulfilled a traditional role

Conversely a young couple where both have to work to put a roof over their heads is disgusting and a sad indictment of our society 

 

Good post. There is a huge political and media push at present to try and say up is down, eventually (probably already paying) a price will be paid as gravity will take over.

Try sharing a view similar to your post in any medium to large sized company though and see how fast you end up in front of HR.

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3 hours ago, Greg Bowman said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/20/britain-male-suicide-rate-tragedy-failure#comments

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/06/160616071935.htm

Sadly to me this isn’t rocket science (excuse the pun) its just another version of anyone can be anything we are all gender fluid robots

Rip more compassionate caring and collegiate individuals away from their family, stick them in environments based around male style competiveness, ensure they are responsible for the families financial security and guess what ?

This is entirely different from two couples both working the same ( whatever the pay rate )

The article also says 

Men with tough work schedules appeared to fare much better, found the researchers, who analyzed data from interviews with almost 7,500 people who were part of the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth.

Again not rocket science. Men have a different biological makeup and have evolved support mechanisms from the Friday night pub to the squash league 

The truth is whilst most younger generations think boomers are compassion less goons - every morning I see a young Mum unloading a tired and plainly irrated 3 year old in the rain to go to nursery at 7 I could cry 

( the answer isn’t the easy get out House husband route )

it’s not right - something to do with house prices but something to do with the ****** fostered upon woman that they can have it all 

This is current news and pretty relevant to this post. Watch the whole video it really is fantastic. Cathy Newman tries to switch his words with her lefty bias and gets absolutely destroyed. It's such a great interview.

 

Edited by honkydonkey

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This is going to sound like a massive feminist rant but......here goes anyway.

When the male is the main breadwinner he (usually) does zero household tasks and the "wife" will also take on work that makes his working life easier (making packed lunches, booking his dentist appointments, sorting out his sports kit for weekend activities) exactly the same as she does for the children if there are any.  Therefore man in high status job has ONE job - earning money.

In my experience of friends where the role is reversed the working female does not also get a full-time assistant to her life even if the "house husband" is taking on the traditional bulk of the day-to-day cleaning and childcare.

Therefore the working woman still ends up being the family social secretary, organiser and runner-arounder, which usually amounts to one and a half jobs whilst the much-celebrated house husband is actually doing only about half the work of the uncelebrated traditional house wife that he has replaced.

Result - unhappiness for everyone because the house husband feels undervalued and the working wife feels like she's been swizzed.

Like I said, I can't make this sweeping generalisation for the whole of society, but in my age-group (late forties) who were mostly the pioneers of the switch-around, it hasn't really worked out that well for the majority who took the choice.

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3 hours ago, Greg Bowman said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/20/britain-male-suicide-rate-tragedy-failure#comments

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/06/160616071935.htm

Sadly to me this isn’t rocket science (excuse the pun) its just another version of anyone can be anything we are all gender fluid robots

Rip more compassionate caring and collegiate individuals away from their family, stick them in environments based around male style competiveness, ensure they are responsible for the families financial security and guess what ?

This is entirely different from two couples both working the same ( whatever the pay rate )

The article also says 

Men with tough work schedules appeared to fare much better, found the researchers, who analyzed data from interviews with almost 7,500 people who were part of the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth.

Again not rocket science. Men have a different biological makeup and have evolved support mechanisms from the Friday night pub to the squash league 

The truth is whilst most younger generations think boomers are compassion less goons - every morning I see a young Mum unloading a tired and plainly irrated 3 year old in the rain to go to nursery at 7 I could cry 

( the answer isn’t the easy get out House husband route )

it’s not right - something to do with house prices but something to do with the ****** fostered upon woman that they can have it all 

Agree. Seems a strange world. We were discussing this at the Xmas table over coffee to which a particular family member got pretty upset. I am not wholly sure what feminism is achieving now in terms of fulfillment (what more important metric could there be?) but saying such is tantamount to being a neanderthal type misogynist these days who wants to chain women back to the kitchen sink. Since when was subcontracting out parenting progressive? Natural instinct obviously counts for zero in defeating the scourge of patriarchalism...As you say unless you have equity in a business you're effectively willingly bending over for your small piece of the pie. And the mood music is that it is regressive men who are preventing women from achieving this opportunity? As you say some women may be discovering the fallacy.

 

 

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17 hours ago, Greg Bowman said:

I work in one client predominately female where many are the main breadwinner - in all honesty they don’t look very happy bunnies, we aren’t asexual robots millions of years of evolution have led to the traditional female nurturing instinct and the male more aggressive ( a generalisation ) breadwinner role 

Male suicide rates in the age group 45 and under massively increasing as are heart attacks, strokes and cancers in high flying woman 

seems a zero sum game to me . 

The most content couples I have always come across are where the husband and wife can enjoy traditional roles, I don’t know the science but men have evolved all sorts of support mechanisms to help in that role from their natural clubby nature to the beer on a Friday, and a young family value their Mum 

And let’s put down once and for all the career bull, unless you have equity it is just a job without overtime 

And for you personally HD be careful what you wish for I know two House husbands who were binned for new models who fulfilled a traditional role

Conversely a young couple where both have to work to put a roof over their heads is disgusting and a sad indictment of our society 

 

Worth repeating.......Children do suffer when both parents are forced to put their paid work first before them, passed from pillar to post, juggling home responsibility and work responsibility, working on overdrive...makes you wonder what society's priorities are?.....today's financial gains or tomorrow's healthy balanced future, our children today, their experiences will be the product of tomorrow's future.;)

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6 minutes ago, stop_the_craziness said:

This is going to sound like a massive feminist rant but......here goes anyway.

When the male is the main breadwinner he (usually) does zero household tasks and the "wife" will also take on work that makes his working life easier (making packed lunches, booking his dentist appointments, sorting out his sports kit for weekend activities) exactly the same as she does for the children if there are any.  Therefore man in high status job has ONE job - earning money.

In my experience of friends where the role is reversed the working female does not also get a full-time assistant to her life even if the "house husband" is taking on the traditional bulk of the day-to-day cleaning and childcare.

Therefore the working woman still ends up being the family social secretary, organiser and runner-arounder, which usually amounts to one and a half jobs whilst the much-celebrated house husband is actually doing only about half the work of the uncelebrated traditional house wife that he has replaced.

Result - unhappiness for everyone because the house husband feels undervalued and the working wife feels like she's been swizzed.

Like I said, I can't make this sweeping generalisation for the whole of society, but in my age-group (late forties) who were mostly the pioneers of the switch-around, it hasn't really worked out that well for the majority who took the choice.

Sounds about right. Perhaps men just aren't a natural at the caring role and are better off in the workplace.

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2 hours ago, spyguy said:

Main bread winners i.e. earning the money.

Or main benefits receiver?

From experience, the latter seems more likely than the former.

......not saying that is right, but bringing children up well is a job, a job that imo is not recognised and valued sufficiently.......dads are just as equipped to do the same job.......thousands of mums and dads bring up children solo both working for money and caring for benefit money.......many also bring children up working long hours for money but no benefit money......;)

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24 minutes ago, stop_the_craziness said:

This is going to sound like a massive feminist rant but......here goes anyway.

When the male is the main breadwinner he (usually) does zero household tasks and the "wife" will also take on work that makes his working life easier (making packed lunches, booking his dentist appointments, sorting out his sports kit for weekend activities) exactly the same as she does for the children if there are any.  Therefore man in high status job has ONE job - earning money.

In my experience of friends where the role is reversed the working female does not also get a full-time assistant to her life even if the "house husband" is taking on the traditional bulk of the day-to-day cleaning and childcare.

Therefore the working woman still ends up being the family social secretary, organiser and runner-arounder, which usually amounts to one and a half jobs whilst the much-celebrated house husband is actually doing only about half the work of the uncelebrated traditional house wife that he has replaced.

Result - unhappiness for everyone because the house husband feels undervalued and the working wife feels like she's been swizzed.

Like I said, I can't make this sweeping generalisation for the whole of society, but in my age-group (late forties) who were mostly the pioneers of the switch-around, it hasn't really worked out that well for the majority who took the choice.

I do toilets and bathroom and kitchen. Mrs s does dusting and hovering. She cooks kids dinners as shes back with tgem. I do mine as im not back til 7.

I do all the kids appointments as Im much more organised than Mrs spy.

Kids under 3 need a pretty much FT carer - mum or dad, does not matter.

I looked after jnr spy for 6 months 2.5 to 3. It was fun. It really was not as hard as my job, seriously.

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15 minutes ago, winkie said:

......not saying that is right, but bringing children up well is a job, a job that imo is not recognised and valued sufficiently.......dads are just as equipped to do the same job.......thousands of mums and dads bring up children solo both working for money and caring for benefit money.......many also bring children up working long hours for money but no benefit money......;)

Bringing up a kid to 3 is important. After 3 its much more important they out there and socialise with other kids and adults.

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17 minutes ago, SillyBilly said:

Sounds about right. Perhaps men just aren't a natural at the caring role and are better off in the workplace.

No not all men are like that, they may be good in the workplace but if both partners work equally, children or no children they can clean and cook as good as any woman, share responsibilities........how many times have you seen the elderly wife die and her always working husband, retired at leisure who has had everything in the home  done for them fall apart because they have never boiled an egg or vacuumed a carpet n their lives!!!!;)

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26 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Bringing up a kid to 3 is important. After 3 its much more important they out there and socialise with other kids and adults.

There is a saying, 'Give me a child until he is seven and I’ll show you the man' agree socialising, playing with other kids/ brothers and sisters and adults is very beneficial....but they do better if a solid, safe, secure parent to be there for them, take them there, be there for them, at home when they get home from school.....;)

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1 hour ago, doomed said:

 

Try sharing a view similar to your post in any medium to large sized company though and see how fast you end up in front of HR.

I dared to go against the narrative in a large company once.

I was labeled as 'negative'.

I left 3 weeks later.

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18 hours ago, Greg Bowman said:

I work in one client predominately female where many are the main breadwinner - in all honesty they don’t look very happy bunnies, we aren’t asexual robots millions of years of evolution have led to the traditional female nurturing instinct and the male more aggressive ( a generalisation ) breadwinner role 

Male suicide rates in the age group 45 and under massively increasing as are heart attacks, strokes and cancers in high flying woman 

seems a zero sum game to me . 

The most content couples I have always come across are where the husband and wife can enjoy traditional roles, I don’t know the science but men have evolved all sorts of support mechanisms to help in that role from their natural clubby nature to the beer on a Friday, and a young family value their Mum 

And let’s put down once and for all the career bull, unless you have equity it is just a job without overtime 

And for you personally HD be careful what you wish for I know two House husbands who were binned for new models who fulfilled a traditional role

Conversely a young couple where both have to work to put a roof over their heads is disgusting and a sad indictment of our society 

 

Very true all of it, especially the career bull. I actually have overtime in my contract but newer people at my firm work ridiculous hours for nothing. I ask them why they do it and they say "professionalism" but they are sadly mistaken, as anyone who has ever employed a real professional such as plumber or solicitor knows that extra hours worked will result in a bigger bill at the end. The really daft thing is that because I am so expensive they don't want me to do any overtime therefore by some miracle incomprehensible to the rest of the company we manage to achieve our objectives in a standard 37 hour week.

I know a couple aged about 30 currently in the process of buying a house, with HTB etc. They will just about manage the lunatic mortgage because she is a high flyer, however he earns much less. They are also talking about babies but really how is that going to work. People moan about stereotypes but I do think the traditional bit where you set up home in your twenties and only one of you (usually the bloke) needed to work had a lot going for it.

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Pulling from this, and other topics on HPC, and my own view of the future:  Are we going back to single wage households?

Impending HPC likely to mean roof on head cost is lower.
Impending brexit likely to mean end of cheap domestic service.
Impending deflationary collapse likely to mean less jobs to go round.
Impending inflation likely to increase food/home maintenance costs.

I see all of the above as encouraging a partner to stay home - to maintain the home, to save money by doing own laundry, making own sandwiches, mending own roof, shopping at best prices.

Could government even encourage this?  Possibly with a new 'couples' tax allowance - better than 2 single persons, but only available for one of the partners, if the other chooses not to work?

I'm not going there on the man/woman issue.  There's all kinds of peeps, and the only reasonable way is to let them choose their roles as they wish.

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3 hours ago, stop_the_craziness said:

This is going to sound like a massive feminist rant but......here goes anyway.

When the male is the main breadwinner he (usually) does zero household tasks and the "wife" will also take on work that makes his working life easier (making packed lunches, booking his dentist appointments, sorting out his sports kit for weekend activities) exactly the same as she does for the children if there are any.  Therefore man in high status job has ONE job - earning money.

In my experience of friends where the role is reversed the working female does not also get a full-time assistant to her life even if the "house husband" is taking on the traditional bulk of the day-to-day cleaning and childcare.

Therefore the working woman still ends up being the family social secretary, organiser and runner-arounder, which usually amounts to one and a half jobs whilst the much-celebrated house husband is actually doing only about half the work of the uncelebrated traditional house wife that he has replaced.

Result - unhappiness for everyone because the house husband feels undervalued and the working wife feels like she's been swizzed.

Like I said, I can't make this sweeping generalisation for the whole of society, but in my age-group (late forties) who were mostly the pioneers of the switch-around, it hasn't really worked out that well for the majority who took the choice.

Most of my mates (early 50's) do contribute around the house/garden and are involved with the kids regardless of who's the daddy money wise.

You under estimate the lengths men go to for the quiet life from their spouses?

Meanwhile in the  fishfinger household Mrs F zealously guards the ironing as she is alarmed at the fact that Mr F can happily function without her household wise (apart from cleaning the cat trays which I'll happily concede). I can iron 5 work shirts in 5 mins with a crease down the sleeves that you can shave with?

 

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Have noticed some men do iron their own shirts, their shirts only, not trusting the other half to do it to the exact  standard they expect......other women do no longer iron hardly anything, finding drying it, hanging it correctly and wearing it irons it well.

Having it all.....doing it all..... or having and doing what actually matters.;)

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  • 406 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • up 5%



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