State pension to run out of money in 2035. Current under 50s will have to pay much more tax soon if they want it when they retire.

[kzb]

2 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Full UK state pension should only be given to people who've paid 40years NI.

No excuses.

 

There's increasing avoidance of NI via fake self-employment (the gig economy).  This needs tacking somehow.

  It's the employers fault primarily though.

[Wayward]

2 hours ago, Funn3r said:

Any significant changes to pensions really must be done with years (decades even) of notice and at a glacial pace.

Maybe that is what should happen but that doesn't mean that is what will happen?  Unrealistic and unsustainable promises have been made and therefore guess what will happen...

[scottbeard]

12 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Full UK state pension should only be given to people who've paid 40years NI.

No excuses.

That's too simplistic - what about those who were caring for younger or older relatives?  What about those genuinely too ill to work?

The current system of needing 30 qualifying years - but where years can qualify for reasons other than just paying NI - seems OK to me.

[kzb]

1 hour ago, nightowl said:

Whenever I hear stuff about state pensions being unaffordable etc my BS radar twitches.

Essentially the retired group receive money from the efforts of the currently economic productive group. If the ratio of retired to productive changes that either creates pressure on state pensions or relieves it depending on which way the ratio changes.

Demographic dips and troughs will change this ratio one way then back and thus its not entirely about the narrative of living longer.

When boomers retire the ratio will be a problem but when GenX retires the ratio will swing the otherway et etc...if anthing the over 55s should work to 67/68 and the 35 to 55's work to 63 (or something like that).

So who is making all this noise about state pensions while ignoring the above?  Surely it cant be the financial sector wanting more people to pay into their industry can it ? ummm.

 

Me Too

Persons should be very suspicious about the half truths and fake news in this area.  Check the facts.

[Funn3r]

I'll say what I always say - the problem does not really exist and there is plenty for everyone. The elite/1%ers/TPTB have grabbed nearly all of the pie leaving us plebs to fight over the scraps.

The more we blame each other "it's the filthy immigrants" , "it's the lazy boomers", "it's the idiotic Brexiters/Remainers" then the more amused they get and recline further into their armchairs with another glass of port.

[BudoBear]

I used to prattle on about the fact that there won't be any pensions when my generation retires, and as such I'd be making my own provisions. I opted out of all schemes, to the disdain of friends and family.

Now, looking at the current socio-political environment, I consider discussions about the validity and function of any such  schemes/programmes the same as putting out the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Seriously folks, this is the top, there is only one way from here, the excrement and the fan blades are about to meet in a most monumental manner.

Grab your popcorn and take a comfy chair because it's going to be one helluva ride!

Good luck!

bB

[kzb]

57 minutes ago, scottbeard said:

That's too simplistic - what about those who were caring for younger or older relatives?  What about those genuinely too ill to work?

The current system of needing 30 qualifying years - but where years can qualify for reasons other than just paying NI - seems OK to me.

Hang on though, the money has to come from somewhere.

Pensions are contribution based.  This was clear from the beginning.  A big problem is that non-contributors end up with as much (or more) as contributors in our current society.  This incentivises all the wrong behaviours we see around us now.

[BudoBear]

8 minutes ago, Funn3r said:

I'll say what I always say - the problem does not really exist and there is plenty for everyone. The elite/1%ers/TPTB have grabbed nearly all of the pie leaving us plebs to fight over the scraps.

The more we blame each other "it's the filthy immigrants" , "it's the lazy boomers", "it's the idiotic Brexiters/Remainers" then the more amused they get and recline further into their armchairs with another glass of port.

Yep, I agree, well said. We need to join together and stop infighting. Start small and local folks, make friends with neighbours, grow food in local green areas. Start doing things for you, your community and ultimately the future generation. Wake up, see the beast for what it is and stop feeding it because it'll eat your kids if you don't act to stop it in our generation.

[Will!]

I used to think a contribution-based welfare state was the answer to all the questions about the 'fairness' of state benefits.  The trouble is a contribution-based welfare state only works if everyone has the opportunity to make contributions and society can reach a decision on how little, if anything, to give those who have not contributed.  I don't think either of those conditions are true at the moment so now I'm a supporter of a Citizen's Income and state benefits as negative income tax.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Will!

[nightowl]

13 minutes ago, Funn3r said:

I'll say what I always say - the problem does not really exist and there is plenty for everyone. The elite/1%ers/TPTB have grabbed nearly all of the pie leaving us plebs to fight over the scraps.

The more we blame each other "it's the filthy immigrants" , "it's the lazy boomers", "it's the idiotic Brexiters/Remainers" then the more amused they get and recline further into their armchairs with another glass of port.

 

[iamnumerate]

4 minutes ago, nightowl said:

 

But bankers don't take 95% of the economy.  More housing in the UK goes to immigrants than bankers.

Now I am not saying that bankers don't get too much but this is not true.

[nightowl]

 I'm not sure the cookie image is 100% numerically correct...its satire don't forget, but it does illustrates how the 1st (most powerful) group says to the 2nd (productive) group, to watch out the third group are after your cookies...deflecting attention.  Hence why my BS radar sometimes goes off.

Edited January 10, 2018 by nightowl

[BudoBear]

Just now, iamnumerate said:

But bankers don't take 95% of the economy.  More housing in the UK goes to immigrants than bankers.

Now I am not saying that bankers don't get too much but this is not true.

Semantics! The banking industry is manipulated by the central banks, which are manipulated by the IMF and then above that by the BIS. All interest payments within the system ultimately make it to the top of that pyramid, so it would be fair to say that banking has totally shafted humanity in the pooper with a rusty fish knife! It's folly arguing about the figures anymore, it's a matter of principle, thay are leeching the worth and creativity of the human race and they must be stopped. I heard rumours they were being rounded up by US Special Forces that had gone AWOL and were being taken to Gitmo - I imagine that was internet fluff; we can but dream!

And there are many others joining this guy and corroborating his story.

If this info resonantes with you please share it with friends and loved ones. The masses are slowly waking up to the massive deception, don't let them get left behind.

bB

[happyguy]

The state pension is nothing i is £8,200 a year.  No one can live on that.  Anyone who is not saving at least 10% of their salary from the time they start work will have a poor old age.

As people are living longer and with medical advances we will have to save more into a pension that is basic maths.

My parents have a good pension neigh had a final salary pension they just ploughed their own money into it and good luck to them.

Any one who does not do that is making a personal decision but it is not one I would  make. 

[winkie]

5 hours ago, LetsBuild said:

Right - I am early/mid thirties earn almost £60k whilst living and working in the East Midlands - which I consider pretty decent. For some reason I get out of in the morning and do the right thing despite being denied a home for a fair value. If this happens I REFUSE to play the game anymore and will change my behaviour, most likely emigrate.

Why would emigrating be a bad thing......just do it.

£60kpa doesn't last forever.......people on a lot less can purchase a lot more.

[happyguy]

"We're already in that world.  Myself, and many of my friend circle, (early 40's), have no private pension arrangements.  Because we remember what happened to state, private and company pensions in recent decades."

 

That is fine but do not whinge when you have nothing to live on in your old age - you made that decision

[BudoBear]

1 minute ago, happyguy said:

"We're already in that world.  Myself, and many of my friend circle, (early 40's), have no private pension arrangements.  Because we remember what happened to state, private and company pensions in recent decades."

 

That is fine but do not whinge when you have nothing to live on in your old age - you made that decision

Do you not think the global financial cataclysm currently facing humanity will effect you, or do you not see it?

[spyguy]

43 minutes ago, Funn3r said:

I'll say what I always say - the problem does not really exist and there is plenty for everyone. The elite/1%ers/TPTB have grabbed nearly all of the pie leaving us plebs to fight over the scraps.

The more we blame each other "it's the filthy immigrants" , "it's the lazy boomers", "it's the idiotic Brexiters/Remainers" then the more amused they get and recline further into their armchairs with another glass of port.

Nope.

UKs tax base is way too narrow - the majority of the income tax is paid by about 25% of the population.

If there was 'plenty' youd not have seen UK national debt double in the last ~10 years. And, no, thats not entirely down to bailing out he banks,. Its a structural spending deficit that is causing the deficit.

And, no, the UK is not some light tax haven - our taxes are comparable/higher than most of the developed world.

The UK population needs to decide if its a high tax/high spending country. Or a low tax/low spending country.

At the moment, you have the state taking ~54% of GDP in tax and still running a ~6% budget deficit and, effectively, ~30% of working age people not working.

As far as blaming immigrants go, they *are* to blame. The UK has imported 9-15M people in the past 15 years, putting paid to the BS that migrants are economic good - not when they are entitled to tax credits!

A simpler migrant policy is to set a minimum wage income - 30k or single,, 60k for family.

[winkie]

Cheap labour from outside has made many rich......30k pa can easily be earned from rental income, don't have to live here.

[guest_northshore]

Says the Telegraph. Could alternatively be reported as:
"2075 projections of break-even NICs increases in an ageing population improve from +11% in 2010 to +5% now"

Assumptions are necessarily made about about mortality, fertility, migration, dependency ratio, earnings, benefits lock upratings etc. The report also notes 1) increases to receipts until 2025 due to the end of contracting out and changes to women's retirement age; 2) Government can simply legislate to affect minority cash-flow fund balances.

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/uk-social-security-short-term-and-long-term-reports

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/669536/GAD_E-news_issue_30_Dec_2017.pdf

 

[Errol]

31 minutes ago, BudoBear said:

 I heard rumours they were being rounded up by US Special Forces that had gone AWOL and were being taken to Gitmo - 

This would make a great film -  Bruce Willis leading a team of Spec.Ops to save the world. Perhaps we could fit Keanu Reeves (John Wick) in there somewhere.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Errol

[nightowl]

8 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Nope.

UKs tax base is way too narrow - the majority of the income tax is paid by about 25% of the population.

                                                              ---------

A simpler migrant policy is to set a minimum wage income - 30k or single,, 60k for family.

The 25% supporting the 75% is the same as my retired vs working ratio point- if it goes too far one way it creates a problem.

I'm not sure though £30K/60K helps as it still will lead to immigrant downward competition for the middle income worker who make up that 25%. 

[spyguy]

6 minutes ago, nightowl said:

The 25% supporting the 75% is the same as my retired vs working ratio point- if it goes too far one way it creates a problem.

I'm not sure though £30K/60K helps as it still will lead to immigrant downward competition for the middle income worker who make up that 25%. 

Oh, the wage hurdle would help enormously.

Trust me.

Any migrants coming to the UK needs to generate enough tax revenue to support the services they use.

Id probably insist they puchase private health insurance and that their kids attend private schools.

If so many people ant t come to the UK then its time we (UK) started making money from them.

[Si1]

39 minutes ago, happyguy said:

"We're already in that world.  Myself, and many of my friend circle, (early 40's), have no private pension arrangements.  Because we remember what happened to state, private and company pensions in recent decades."

 

 

I bet the real reason is they're balls deep in mortgage debt and simply can't afford a pension too

[Will!]

14 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Any migrants coming to the UK needs to generate enough tax revenue to support the services they use.

Id probably insist they puchase private health insurance and that their kids attend private schools.

If so many people ant t come to the UK then its time we (UK) started making money from them.

Charging overseas visitors if their children use state schools seems simple enough.  How much would you ask?

Edited January 10, 2018 by Will!