The Brighton mega bubble

[Greg Bowman]

9 hours ago, a j said:

My thoughts too. Brighton seems to be a very popular place among those with inherited/ unearned money. No doubt a lovely place to love but also a community which suits people of upper middle class upbringing and somewhat arty/ alternative views. Very sad for anyone who has to live their on a normal income as you are competing with those with no such restrictions. 

My advise would be to look elsewhere. 

I notice your in St Albans where we moved our office to. I have lived in South Herts for 20 years from Potters Bar to Hertford, Brookmans Park etc.

We are renting in North London at the moment and can’t wait to get back

35 mins drive on a Saturday night to Marble Arch. Choice of 4 train lines (Potters Bar is 17 mins to kings cross and a ‘slow’ train to Moorgate from Cuffley  35 mins, Uber £40 tops home after a night out) and at a push Cockfosters tube, some great schools and if you know where to look some affordable housing for someone with an income of £75k

Never got the fascination with Brighton/Sussex/Hampshire etc nice to visit but as you say a playground and frankly miles away, can understand people living in the country but why live in an expensive urban environment so far from London ? - for normal families Hertfordshire has a lot more to offer, as does North Essex (not to be confused with South Essex) places like Dunmow, Thaxted etc 

Edited January 9, 2018 by Greg Bowman

[Will!]

8 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

This is going to be a controversial view but rental prices are quite close to a pure market.

Local Housing Allowance

[CunningPlan]

47 minutes ago, Will! said:

Local Housing Allowance

+1

You are competing against the government who have more money than you do.

[Fletcher]

9 hours ago, 999house said:

must be in a shit area or a shit room. They are going for 750/800 in london nowdays

How eloquent. 

[suresh786]

23 hours ago, Midlifemum said:

Thanks

Its anything between £1500–£1800 pcm for a 3 bed in Brighton now. We rent a 2 bed terrace for £1200 at the moment.

I think we have had enough. I like living here & have stayed because after 17 years I have lots of friends and a life here- good job, kids happy in school etc 

But ultimately my son needs his own room as he’s close to secondary age.

We genuinely feel like we are being forced out. 

My partner is too old to get a mortgage now & our deposit saving has not kept up with house price inflation as it’s pretty much lottery win territory down here now.

Its so depressing. I have always wondered how Brighton continued to defy all rational logic really as it is looking very deprived again- Parks look shabby, no investment, massive homeless and social problems but as someone commented, most of the money isn’t earnt in the city. 

the 1500-1800pcm is too high, its like london, e.g. in zone 4 barking the rent are same or lower than this.

i am surprised, then you are right that its too much for your income, only way is to move out of the town but still close enough to meet your friends and family and drive your kids to school

[RentingForever]

16 hours ago, Midlifemum said:

I’m sick of expensive rents and being priced out of something that is, for most people, a normal part of life ie. buying a house!

If you live/work in the Southeast then buying a house stopped being a 'normal part of life' for most people (at least those who weren't already on the ladder by about 2005) for at least a decade.

Two choices: wait for the bubble to collapse, or move out of the South,

[RentingForever]

(sorry, duplicate)

Edited January 10, 2018 by RentingForever

[North London Rent Girl]

19 hours ago, Parkwell said:

 

great

[maybe]

On 08/01/2018 at 9:24 PM, Midlifemum said:

I have lived (rented) in Brighton for 17 years- I love it here- but I am close to conceding defeat as can’t afford the rents anymore & have 2 kids. 

House prices are beyond out of control in a town where apparently 1 in 64 people are homeless and house prices rises annually are higher than the average wage in the town. 5000 Londoners apparently moved here last year making a big problem many times worse. 

11% yoy according to today’s Independent but even earlier in the year it was up 9%

http://www.plumplot.co.uk/posts/area/Brighton-mid-2017.html

Our household income is 75k and yet we can’t afford to rent a 3 bed family home. 

It seems to be a town for people who can rent a room for 800 a month or for London money.

Despair doesn’t come close. 

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-70917974.html

This is for rent in Glynde. Just come on the market. Local schools are great, (Priory in Lewes, or Firle Primary) and it has a railway station with quick connections to Lewes and Brighton.  Its part of the estate there, so a long term let.  As long as you want.  Really idyllic. Amazing community.  You're welcome.

[Freki]

Did an amazing hike end of 2017. Lewes, SouthEase, Glynde. And yes Glynde really struck me. I can't remember though if they pronounce it Glind or Gleend

[winkie]

.....who cares what it costs to live there if have no intention of ever living there whatever the cost....plenty more fish in the sea.

[HovelinHove]

On 1/9/2018 at 1:08 AM, Midlifemum said:

Err, no, i’m not a troll. I saved for many years to try and buy a house but have never kept up with house price inflation. I wish now that I had taken a risk 10 years ago but it seemed like prices were dangerously over inflated then in Brighton. If only I could have predicted what happened next. 

I know exactly how you feel. I nearly bought in Brighton in 2003, but felt it was overvalued. Doh! I lived in Hove from 2003-2011, and grew up in the area (Hurstpierpoint). I had/have a very well paid job (more than you by a bit), and I couldn't afford Brighton too, and I started to hate it. People are such pretentious, left wing champagne socialist t**ts. Move down from london thinking they are doing the radical thing, but as has been said, all the decent people left years ago. I moved to Canada, and for the price of a two bed flat in Brighton I have a 4 bedroom house, basement apartment, lots of land and a pool. However, I am done with Canada, so looks like i will be moving back to Sussex partly for family reasons, and partly because Canadians are not much fun to be around. Can't say I'm looking forward to picking up where I left off with the housing dilemma thing though. My wife is from NZ, but it's even more expensive there. Bring on the global crash!

[Confusion of VIs]

On ‎1‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 11:09 PM, Will! said:

It takes a special kind of masochism to commute by train from Brighton to London, but I've known quite a few people who do it.  They're all good at lying to themselves that somehow at least an hour on the train is 'worth it'.

Bungaroosh sums up Brighton nicely.

DOI:  Lived in Kemp Town for six months and enjoyed it, but my commute was 5 minutes door-to-door. 

By London standards it's a pretty easy commute. You get a seat each morning and sitting on a train for an hour gives you time to relax and read a book.

[a j]

On 1/9/2018 at 9:24 PM, Greg Bowman said:

I notice your in St Albans where we moved our office to. I have lived in South Herts for 20 years from Potters Bar to Hertford, Brookmans Park etc.

We are renting in North London at the moment and can’t wait to get back

35 mins drive on a Saturday night to Marble Arch. Choice of 4 train lines (Potters Bar is 17 mins to kings cross and a ‘slow’ train to Moorgate from Cuffley  35 mins, Uber £40 tops home after a night out) and at a push Cockfosters tube, some great schools and if you know where to look some affordable housing for someone with an income of £75k

Never got the fascination with Brighton/Sussex/Hampshire etc nice to visit but as you say a playground and frankly miles away, can understand people living in the country but why live in an expensive urban environment so far from London ? - for normal families Hertfordshire has a lot more to offer, as does North Essex (not to be confused with South Essex) places like Dunmow, Thaxted etc 

Actually I've lived in (very) North London for a few years now - but occasionally look on rightmove for flats near to Potters Bar station. As you say, the Herts area has a lot to offer, and I find being a little further south adds a lot to the driving time going north from London. Are you seeing any positive downwards moves with prices? I'm not seeing any good news at all - if anything there seems to be a gradual rise at the moment and places selling pretty quickly.

[flb]

On 1/8/2018 at 9:24 PM, Midlifemum said:

I have lived (rented) in Brighton for 17 years- I love it here- but I am close to conceding defeat as can’t afford the rents anymore & have 2 kids. 

House prices are beyond out of control in a town where apparently 1 in 64 people are homeless and house prices rises annually are higher than the average wage in the town. 5000 Londoners apparently moved here last year making a big problem many times worse. 

11% yoy according to today’s Independent but even earlier in the year it was up 9%

http://www.plumplot.co.uk/posts/area/Brighton-mid-2017.html

Our household income is 75k and yet we can’t afford to rent a 3 bed family home. 

It seems to be a town for people who can rent a room for 800 a month or for London money.

Despair doesn’t come close. 

OK, there are 3 issues here.

 

1. You should be able to rent a 3 bed house if you're talking about 75k, UNLESS you're spending stupid amount of money on stupid stuff. You wouldn't be left with much in savings each month, but you would still have something.

 

2. Renting for 17 years? When exactly were you planning to buy? 2050? Did you really buy into the whole "price crash" thing? For 17 years? I mean, I can understand waiting for a crash for, say, 5 years. But not 17.

 

3. The elephant in the room. Having two kids while renting? Does that somehow make sense? Surely you'd realise that kids imply extra expenses, so having two kids before buying something would make it harder to save for a deposit..? I mean...seriously, what?

[CunningPlan]

13 hours ago, flb said:

OK, there are 3 issues here.

 

1. You should be able to rent a 3 bed house if you're talking about 75k, UNLESS you're spending stupid amount of money on stupid stuff. You wouldn't be left with much in savings each month, but you would still have something.

 

2. Renting for 17 years? When exactly were you planning to buy? 2050? Did you really buy into the whole "price crash" thing? For 17 years? I mean, I can understand waiting for a crash for, say, 5 years. But not 17.

 

3. The elephant in the room. Having two kids while renting? Does that somehow make sense? Surely you'd realise that kids imply extra expenses, so having two kids before buying something would make it harder to save for a deposit..? I mean...seriously, what?

Are you seriously suggesting that only homeowners should have children?

[Kosmin]

2 hours ago, CunningPlan said:

Are you seriously suggesting that only homeowners should have children?

flb seems to imply renters can have one child!

[flb]

5 hours ago, CunningPlan said:

Are you seriously suggesting that only homeowners should have children?

Not at all.

What I am suggesting is that people should have children once they are at least close to having a deposit (what's that nowadays, 5%?) or 50% of a deposit (in a couple) for the simple reason that getting that deposit is not going to become easier once children are born (with women staying at home for a while, with obscene childcare costs and everything else).

Of course, a person is free to have children (as many as they like) before buying a house. In that case, however, I fail to see how one could say "we're being pushed out/socially cleansed etc etc". Nobody's pushing anyone anywhere. People make choices and choices have consequences.

Someone who chose to rent for 17 years has probably paid for a house already...yet they don't own one. It doesn't sound like a good deal to me. I have to wonder what their plan is, once they retire. With no job (and therefore no salary, just savings and their pension), where are they going to live? What's the long term plan?

Edited January 15, 2018 by flb

[Midlifemum]

9 hours ago, flb said:

Not at all.

What I am suggesting is that people should have children once they are at least close to having a deposit (what's that nowadays, 5%?) or 50% of a deposit (in a couple) for the simple reason that getting that deposit is not going to become easier once children are born (with women staying at home for a while, with obscene childcare costs and everything else).

Of course, a person is free to have children (as many as they like) before buying a house. In that case, however, I fail to see how one could say "we're being pushed out/socially cleansed etc etc". Nobody's pushing anyone anywhere. People make choices and choices have consequences.

Someone who chose to rent for 17 years has probably paid for a house already...yet they don't own one. It doesn't sound like a good deal to me. I have to wonder what their plan is, once they retire. With no job (and therefore no salary, just savings and their pension), where are they going to live? What's the long term plan?

The assumptions that you have made in your post are huge. 

I did save a deposit before having a child. I also put 2 offers down on houses but on both occasions was outbid as the property market down here has grown so fast my deposit couldn’t keep up with house price inflation. I haven’t chosen to rent for 17 years (I actually spent 2 years of that time overseas) - like many many people I have been priced out of a dysfunctional housing market. I have tried to move to a cheaper area but couldn’t find a job that matched what I have now. I have tried many things to get on the ‘housing ladder’ but we don’t live in normal times where normal incomes apply anymore. The normal rules simply don’t apply. Friends got mortgages by ‘self cert’ but I couldn’t do that as I worked for a big company. 

I’m fully aware my situation isn’t ideal- I am fully aware that at the moment I need to act to protect my retirement. I am fortunate in that I am still one of the few that has a final salary pension. 

Your post is rude and full of massive assumptions. Life doesn’t always work out exactly as planned and in a rigged housing market, even less so. 

My original post was making the point that very few people in Brighton can afford to rent family homes- doctors, nurses, teachers- anyone. I am not in the minority and to be honest, never expected that because I didn’t buy a house at a certain moment 17 years ago, it would mean that I was priced out forever.  

[TheCountOfNowhere]

I've said on a thread or two this morning, had a look at Northants for the 1st time in a while and this thread could easily be entitled Northampton Mega Bubble.

 

Asking prices around double what they were in 2007 now and we all know what happened them.

[flb]

12 hours ago, Midlifemum said:

The assumptions that you have made in your post are huge. 

My only "assumptions" are that are you haven't bought, that you have been renting for 17 years, that you've got children and that you've had children before buying a house - thus making it harder for yourself to save more money for a deposit (which in turn would've allowed you to outbid others - as opposed to being outbid).

I'm pointing out the fact that choices have consequences. You seemingly believe that that is rude. Oh, well.

[Sancho Panza]

1 hour ago, flb said:

My only "assumptions" are that are you haven't bought, that you have been renting for 17 years, that you've got children and that you've had children before buying a house - thus making it harder for yourself to save more money for a deposit (which in turn would've allowed you to outbid others - as opposed to being outbid).

I'm pointing out the fact that choices have consequences. You seemingly believe that that is rude. Oh, well.

I think you're being slightly disingenuous, to say your only assumptions are what she's told you.

You clearly assume that

1)she's phsychic,

2)that markets only move up and  that once the housing market hit 3.5 times salary it was inevitably going to hit 10 times 17 years later

3) that at any point in the intervening 17 years, there were multiple market entry points with mortgage credit easily available to a sensible borrower.

4) it was obvious that monetary policy would be run to bail out BTLers working off 3% gross yields and self cert resi borrowers despite the country running 6%+ fiscal deficits.

5) it was obvious that private banks would be bailed out with taxpayers money

A lot of sensible people have been renting for a long time.

 

 

Edited January 15, 2018 by Sancho Panza

[Sancho Panza]

13 hours ago, Midlifemum said:

The assumptions that you have made in your post are huge. 

I did save a deposit before having a child. I also put 2 offers down on houses but on both occasions was outbid as the property market down here has grown so fast my deposit couldn’t keep up with house price inflation. I haven’t chosen to rent for 17 years (I actually spent 2 years of that time overseas) - like many many people I have been priced out of a dysfunctional housing market. I have tried to move to a cheaper area but couldn’t find a job that matched what I have now. I have tried many things to get on the ‘housing ladder’ but we don’t live in normal times where normal incomes apply anymore. The normal rules simply don’t apply. Friends got mortgages by ‘self cert’ but I couldn’t do that as I worked for a big company. 

I’m fully aware my situation isn’t ideal- I am fully aware that at the moment I need to act to protect my retirement. I am fortunate in that I am still one of the few that has a final salary pension. 

Your post is rude and full of massive assumptions. Life doesn’t always work out exactly as planned and in a rigged housing market, even less so. 

My original post was making the point that very few people in Brighton can afford to rent family homes- doctors, nurses, teachers- anyone. I am not in the minority and to be honest, never expected that because I didn’t buy a house at a certain moment 17 years ago, it would mean that I was priced out forever.  

Lots of good points in your post.It's a sad indictment of 17 years of bad economic governance

[flb]

11 hours ago, Sancho Panza said:

A lot of sensible people have been renting for a long time.

I don't see anything sensible in renting for 17 years. No matter how hard I look at it, it still comes out as (almost?) paying for a house without owning one in the end.

Not many people could've known what was coming. However, I think it's just common sense to have children AFTER you've put down the deposit for a house (for the regular person, of course, not the adventurous type who doesn't want to settle down...ever).

This has nothing to do with "BTL", "interest rates", "gainz" or whatever other soundbites. Even animals tend to build some sort of nest before...

[Midlifemum]

6 minutes ago, flb said:

I don't see anything sensible in renting for 17 years. No matter how hard I look at it, it still comes out as (almost?) paying for a house without owning one in the end.

Not many people could've known what was coming. However, I think it's just common sense to have children AFTER you've put down the deposit for a house (for the regular person, of course, not the adventurous type who doesn't want to settle down...ever).

This has nothing to do with "BTL", "interest rates", "gainz" or whatever other soundbites. Even animals tend to build some sort of nest before...

But you are talking about it all as if the traditional formula of leave school, get job for life, get married, buy house, have kids, work until retirement still exists in the UK in the way it did in the 1950s.

It doesn’t for a whole lot of people for all of the reasons of many of the posts on this site. 

I have a senior professional career, a good pension, a higher than average income and I chose to have kids before I got too old. I hope to be able to buy a house in the next year or 2 but it will mean uprooting my kids life. I’d rather not have rented for as long as I have but actually, that is real life in the UK at the moment.