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Government condemned over its 'abject failure' to tackle homelessness


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Seems to me the only reason why mass immigration is putatively advanced as desirable, nay, necessary, in this country is to feed the neverending Ponzi that is the welfare state, the largest dependants of which are actually the baby boomers, which is ironic because it is precisely that cohort that owns the vast majority of property and land in this country; it is precisely that cohort that has the most income in this country; it is precisely that cohort that has paid vastly insufficient monies into the system to support the humungous costs of its social care, healthcare and state and public sector final salary pensions (now massively cashflow-negative) what with heretofore retirement ages of 60-65 (state) and even much below that (public sector), which is somewhat mental considering the retirement age when the state pension was introduced in 1940-something was 60/65 and more than 50 years later, life expectancy having increased by probably nearly two decades, the state retirement ages had barely changed if at all; it is precisely that cohort that has benefitted from "mad gainz" in house prices over the last forty plus years, having bought for shirt buttons decades ago; and it is precisely that cohort that will object vehemently to planning applications for new residential developments.

In yet another irony, the golden (in asset, income and pension terms) oldies actually voted for Brexit. 

I absolutely don't blame them (these are nearly all mistakes of public policy) just like I don't blame (lawful) immigrants for seeking a better life in the UK. It is what it is, however: a humungous Ponzi scheme wherein the hapless suckers are the young, and the beneficiaries, given to defiant protestations, often as not ("I paid my dues!! I scrimped and saved to buy my first property!") are the elderly.

 

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Totally agree.. it’s just the media driving this false entitlement.. I have family who’s house burnt down due to a neighbours garden Bon fire went wrong..  Firemen said sorry the house is a no go

Government condemned...but in no way accountable and the electorate can do nothing and they know it. Welcome to Britain 2017...The Bankers slave colony.

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13 hours ago, Riedquat said:

I'll go for the second part first. The answer is a combination of practicality (I have lived in Cumbria), and it's saying "you don't like what we're doing, you clear off." Job distribution and opportunities are relative to the overall density of the country, so the less populated parts are worse off in such a country than they'd be in an otherwise similar country with an overall lower population density, for the same density in that region (hope that makes sense, it sounds confused as hell when I read it back!) Centralisation pulls, I suppose.

On the first paragraph, a drop to that level would be wonderful! There's no practical, ethical way of getting there in any reasonable timescale that I can see, so a gradual trickle in that direction is that best that can be hoped for. It doesn't mean empty towns and cities, just smaller towns and cities. That still leaves plenty of big ones for those who like big cities. Anyway, what's the issue with "what do we do with empty towns and cities" if that did happen? Nice cheap housing there for starters, could certainly do with that.

Houses that had been split into flats would revert to houses.  The average size of a home in Britain would likely increase rather than being the tiniest in europe and getting ever smaller.

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It is indeed the market which has failed. Don’t fall for this government stalling planning $hit. Builders back and hoard land, and aren’t prepared to build down the value of their product.

yes the government(s) have implanted fiscal strategies to maintain prices, but supply in my mind is a producer issue not the state. 

No more planning permission until sites already acquired are built on. Failure to build within a time frame revokes the PP granted, and up for completitor tender.

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10 hours ago, BuyToLeech said:

Government handouts aren't a core or unique feature of socialism, especially handouts in the form of banking bailouts.

You could argue that it is corruption rather than proper capitalism, but many on the left see that kind of corruption as an endemic feature of capitalism in the real word, and that's one reason they don't believe in it.

I accept that 'capitalism for the poor, socialism for the rich' isn't too bad as a slogan, if you don't take it too seriously.

But if you blame the failures of our capitalist, neoliberal system on another ideology, an ideology that has been out of power for decades, you'll never face up to the real causes of those failures. 

We spent thirty years arguing that commerce, banking and finance were better than socialism, getting rid of unions, putting everything into private hands, pushing debt and decrying collective ownership.  

Then when the problems with that become undeniable you try to pin those problems on socialism?  

Pull the other one. 

If you track my posts, you will see I share absolutely your view on neoliberalism.

I despise the leeching 1% and their damage to society worldwide. I hate Thatcher, Hayek and Reagan for starting it all 40 odd years ago. I see the divide and rule techniques everywhere, and detest the USA system for allowing the non-tax-paying tech companies to be used as dangerous tools for separating people. The Zionist bankers have rolled back the west to feudalism and people farming.

The damage is huge. I watch others blame each other and the poor, helped by the maggot right wing media - perfect plan!!

I tend to watch a lot of Max Keiser - I think you need to see the context the comment was said. As I said, it's a clever inversion.

http://www.maxkeiser.com/2017/12/kr1163-keiser-report-american-empire-entering-decline/

It's at 3-4 mins in IIRC. But watch the whole thing and tell us what you think.

 

 

 

Edited by jonb2
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22 hours ago, Insane said:

On Question time last week a woman on the panel said to the Labour MP that immigration added to the housing crisis. The Labour MP denied this. No one tackled this reply and asked did immigrants bring a house with them ? 

How can this be denied...?  More people and with tightly restricted housing supply, undeniably mass immigration is at the heart of the problem.  It is Orwellian, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

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1 hour ago, ebull said:

But please bash  [or better change] the system, not the people on the basis of their non-native names about whose history you or I know little.

You are right the system needs changing but the people are here to exploit it and just laugh at people like you.  I find the whole episode bewildering, the gross injustice of it is too much.  If my home burns down I will be out on the street looking for another private rental where ever I can afford.  Why is it that the tenants of Grenfell are now wards of the state and are put up in hotels and are being rehoused in some of the most expensive housing in Europe?  And what is worse is many have contributed nothing to this society.  And you post to defend this - it is outrageous??

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10 hours ago, Wayward said:

You are right the system needs changing but the people are here to exploit it and just laugh at people like you.  I find the whole episode bewildering, the gross injustice of it is too much.  If my home burns down I will be out on the street looking for another private rental where ever I can afford.  Why is it that the tenants of Grenfell are now wards of the state and are put up in hotels and are being rehoused in some of the most expensive housing in Europe?  And what is worse is many have contributed nothing to this society.  And you post to defend this - it is outrageous??

Totally agree.. it’s just the media driving this false entitlement.. I have family who’s house burnt down due to a neighbours garden Bon fire went wrong.. 

Firemen said sorry the house is a no go zone.. good luck all the best! 

Whats the difference between a neighbours Bon fire and a neighbours fridge? They were in the house when the smoke started pouring in, where’s their £millions?

sure in an ideal world we would all get a free flat/house when ours burnt out, and free hotels, free cash, free mental health, free cloths and rehabilitation.. 

But we are just renters and tax payers so who cares about us.. 

no one! 

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22 hours ago, Wayward said:

You are right the system needs changing but the people are here to exploit it and just laugh at people like you.  I find the whole episode bewildering, the gross injustice of it is too much.  If my home burns down I will be out on the street looking for another private rental where ever I can afford.  Why is it that the tenants of Grenfell are now wards of the state and are put up in hotels and are being rehoused in some of the most expensive housing in Europe?  And what is worse is many have contributed nothing to this society.  And you post to defend this - it is outrageous??

I don't defend the way the council are handling the aftermath.

They are reported to be spending 240m on buying flats. Around 250 of them. That money is not going to the victims of Grenfell it's going to ..........

The money will presumably be paid by taxpayers. It should be paid by .....

The tragedy was caused IMO by clear violations of building regs and installation / materials specs. Scandalous the official reports confirming that and police investigation have not yet reached any conclusion.

I just post to defend the victims. Those posting from anonymous computers would not be able to stand in front of someone telling they lost almost all members of immediate family and say what they say here.

In addition all those who are really at fault who should be in jail are achieving their objective of making you angry at the victims because hey are now getting some advantage [a decent rented home in a v. expensive area but still a rented home] rather than being angry at those who have done wrong.

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Unfortunately there are many victims throughout the world.....a few people cannot  save, feed and home all of the people that require help......it is all about making other places in the world safer, peaceful and prosperous so that those that live there wish to remain there.....;)

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The problem is twofold. The Tories are ideologically opposed to housebuilding for plebs. And the British are pathologically averse to living in flats. 

'In Hertfordshire, Herefordshire and Hampshire, aasbuilders and ohmowners 'ardly hever want hapartments'. People want two stories at the most and a pocket handkerchief garden or token patio. Well, sorry, the country ain't big enough.

The homeless problem could easily be solved within the lifetime of a parliament. Ever read about Warsaw? A city 84% destroyed by the Germans leaving a couple of million squatting in ruins.

People deride the East European apartment blocks but architects provided a very efficient solution to the problem they faced. And in fact most are rather better built than today's prefabs. Plus, the economies of scale and proximity allowed them to benefit from town water, gas and electricity, provided at a fraction of the cost of our utility bills . . . still today.

At the time, I don't think anyone would have said, 'coo, you would catch me in one of them council flats, mate'. Not pretty, perhaps, but the lack of variation and architectural ornaments was purely down to lack of money. Poland was denied Marshall Aid by Comecon and it was also leaned on by Soviet Russia to waive war reparations from Germany. 'The (DDR ) Germans are our socialist brothers now'. In all, Poland was leaned on to waive some 84bn in reparations. Yet they still managed to provide housing.

Across Eastern Europe, the post war housing is getting a pastel wash makeover. Some of it looks OK. Nearly 80 years on, it is still housing millions of people affordably and efficiently. With todays technology, and certainly no post war shortages of men and materials, we could solve the problem of homelessness and affordability in a couple of years. It's just that there's no political will. And an absurd prejudice against apartment blocks.

Praga Apartment  Block - 1.jpg

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On 23/12/2017 at 11:57 AM, ebull said:

Yes, I'll vote [and act] again and again and again to give advantage to those who have had less advantage in the past.

People like you are always very quick to help the downtrodden of the world with other peoples money. However by the very act of living in this country and availing yourself of its relative wealth and comfort you are being hypocritical. If you really believed that people from other countries in a worse situation than our own "poor" deserved to be put first then you would cash in everything you own, including the computer you use to post here and go and help them. But since your here posting your obviously not doing that.

 

Edited by goldbug9999
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18 minutes ago, longgone said:

i have lived most of my life suffering from depression and anxiety and was born in this country paid thousands in tax in my 20`s . i am offered no help what so ever by the state at all. yet you seem to praise a load of free loaders that arrive and seem to jump to the head of the queue because they fortunately managed to have children. sady those children are just used as pawns in the sick and twisted system that this idiotic country has. 

do you think these needy people would want to come here if our benefit system was not so generous ???.  plenty other places they can go. 

They should start helping the people who paid in, and have genuine issues.  these people just have kids deliberately and land themselves on the council`s doorstep with their hands out. 

 

Exactly.

Clear thinking there instead of the over emotional tripe posted by ebull.

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1 hour ago, spyguy said:

 

Simple, isnt it.

 

if you have half a brain and had a major stroke yes. 

to the politicians no, they make policies for other reasons.  

Financial benefit to the country should be the only reason they are allowed. i don`t see how a load of people that can`t even speak english are a benefit to the country. 

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3 hours ago, longgone said:

if you have half a brain and had a major stroke yes. 

to the politicians no, they make policies for other reasons.  

Financial benefit to the country should be the only reason they are allowed. i don`t see how a load of people that can`t even speak english are a benefit to the country. 

Potential debt slaves.

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14 minutes ago, Maynardgravy said:

They are debt slaves. Either directly or indirectly. They either borrow to be housed they are housed privately by others who borrow to house them as you service the debt through taxes... win win!

unless they end in a council owned house. that does not stop the council borrowing though i guess. 

we could play the debt game all day really :lol:

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9 hours ago, longgone said:

Financial benefit to the country should be the only reason they are allowed. i don`t see how a load of people that can`t even speak english are a benefit to the country. 

If you look up the statistics, the majority do. English is in fact spoken by nearly two thirds of the world. Everyone in Eastern Europe learned English in preference to Russian since the 80's. 

By the way, about the 'world's poor'. Very few of these, relatively speaking, end up in UK. The major people exporting countries to UK have been Poland, India and Pakistan for years, by hundreds of thousands. Refugees from countries we trashed with NATO,  Iraqis, Ukrainians so on, don't amount to a hill of Bosnians.

But I thought this thread was about homelessness, not immigration.

 

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14 minutes ago, Byron said:

What you have to do is get a pencil and join one dot to another..............................

Depends what you mean by homelessness. My definition is anyone who can't afford their own home. And isn't likely to be able to in their lifetime, the way things are going. Here Brits vastly outnumber any other members of the population.

By the way,  your view is entirely London SE centric. Try joining some dots to the homeless in the North East, or South West, where immigrants can be counted on one hand.

 

 

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