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Sledgehead

Fake or Just a Sign of the Times?

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I've bought my Mum a Berghaus Gilet for crimbo at her request. I did the same a couple of years ago. Back then, the garment was called a "Spectrum Gilet". This has been replaced by the "Prism Vest". The price is about the same. And then there is the quality ...

Frankly I'm wondering whether to question (with Amazon) whether the item is legit. Gone are the hemmed seams, replaced by over-locked, top-stitching. The crisp drape has given way to the look of a cheap, baggy onesie. And the micro-flleece looks more like macro. Have I bought a fake, or is this what I must now expect from what was once a quality brand?

Anybody else seeing examples (besides Mercs and Beemers).

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Was the seller on Amazon a 'proper' seller? Would you have any reason to think it is fake?

You could check google images to see if other items have the stitching and other details.

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1 hour ago, Errol said:

Was the seller on Amazon a 'proper' seller? Would you have any reason to think it is fake?

You could check google images to see if other items have the stitching and other details.

I'll do that. Thanks. Little point after all in lodging a complaint if it's what now passes for said item (other than to let 'em know that somebody has noticed standards dropping).

As for whether it's the proper seller, I guess so:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Berghaus-Womens-Prism-Vest/dp/B01JOU9FS4

There's a link banner saying "Visit the (Berghaus) Store". Plus there's all the Berghaus merketing cr@p later in the listing.

The images on google look as if what I have is "right". Hmmm...

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1 hour ago, stuckin2up2down said:

My patek has started going backwards, I think aliexpress has a lot of fakes on it

:lol:

Just remember, you never actually own a Patek Philippe. You merely take care of the installments until the next generation can afford to chip in.

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1 minute ago, Sledgehead said:

:lol:

Just remember, you never actually own a Patek Philippe. You merely take care of the installments until the next generation can afford to chip in.

Ha! I can't believe that advert is so lauded, I just think ***** every time I see it.

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So I've now managed to track down two v large images from each range. The Spectrum, which I believe is a now replaced line, comes first (a gilet), followed by the Prism (a sleeved fleece). If you are interested compare the way the zipped pockets have been implemented. Then check the shoulder seams. Night and day. You might also be able to see that the micro-ness of the micro-fleece has all but disappeared from Spectrum to Prism. 

Spectrum:

bl_103312_a

Prism

bl_206963_a

 

Usually you'd have to handle the garments to notice these differences, yet here they are clealry visible in 3000 x 3000 and 4000 x 4000 jpegs.

Another interesting test will be to see how it looks when worn inside out. I've caught Mum doing this with the Spectrum, such was the quality of the inside finish. Wonder if the Prism will be able to pass that test? I'm thinking this is unlikely.

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Spectrum looks better in every way - better fit, better design, visually better quality. I would agree that the Prism looks like a product from a different manufacturer.

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1 hour ago, Errol said:

Spectrum looks better in every way - better fit, better design, visually better quality. I would agree that the Prism looks like a product from a different manufacturer.

Wow! Wondered if peeps would "get it" from pictures. Your response says it all.

Makes me wonder whether Berghaus have an 'alternative' for the 'export' market. I wonder what similar garments look like in Berghaus' Beijing store?

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1 hour ago, Sledgehead said:

So I've now managed to track down two v large images from each range. The Spectrum, which I believe is a now replaced line, comes first (a gilet), followed by the Prism (a sleeved fleece). If you are interested compare the way the zipped pockets have been implemented. Then check the shoulder seams. Night and day. You might also be able to see that the micro-ness of the micro-fleece has all but disappeared from Spectrum to Prism. 

Spectrum:

bl_103312_a

Prism

bl_206963_a

 

Usually you'd have to handle the garments to notice these differences, yet here they are clealry visible in 3000 x 3000 and 4000 x 4000 jpegs.

Another interesting test will be to see how it looks when worn inside out. I've caught Mum doing this with the Spectrum, such was the quality of the inside finish. Wonder if the Prism will be able to pass that test? I'm thinking this is unlikely.

Wouldn't kick either out of bed for farting.

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I've been wearing Berghaus fleeces for a long time, the pictures shown are two completely different styles of fleece (the 'microness' hasn't 'dissapeared'), they're meant to look different. 

The shoulder and pocket seams are pretty much identical to when I bought my first equivalent to the prism about 25 years ago. They keep you warm, but they've never been particularly hard wearing. Despite the cost.

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9 hours ago, frozen_out said:

I've been wearing Berghaus fleeces for a long time, the pictures shown are two completely different styles of fleece (the 'microness' hasn't 'dissapeared'), they're meant to look different. 

The shoulder and pocket seams are pretty much identical to when I bought my first equivalent to the prism about 25 years ago. They keep you warm, but they've never been particularly hard wearing. Despite the cost.

That is all as maybe, but here is a question: what happened to the Women's Spectrum Gilet?

https://www.berghaus.com/womens-mid-layers/womens-vests-gilets

 

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I've bought two Napier shooting stick brollies as I had a brain fart and left the first one somewhere.  Second one, five years later, was about the same price but I could tell that the bean counters had been at it. The build quality just wasn't as impressive as my first one. The small patch of velcro failed in less than three years. Easy enough repair but I would have been prepared to pay more if it meant getting the original quality.

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3 hours ago, frozen_out said:

No idea. I'm not really sure what the question is. Here's something interesting though... That's exactly half the price of the first one I bought in 1993.

The question is the same question one might ask of, say, Mercedes Benz cars post 1995: what happened to the better build-quality models going forward? Strikes me the Spectrum Gilet is just costly to make.

I could join the game of being deliberately obtuse and ask what point you are trying to make about price, out of some misplaced fear of being made to look silly by mistakingly putting words in your mouth . But that's not my style; so I say the only inference a reasonable person could draw from your reference to price is that somehow we are all getting much better value for money. And I that is exactly what you are supposed to think. Meanwhile premium lines are axed, quality falls and elsewhere we get duped by 'shrinkflation'.

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2 hours ago, John51 said:

I've bought two Napier shooting stick brollies as I had a brain fart and left the first one somewhere.  Second one, five years later, was about the same price but I could tell that the bean counters had been at it. The build quality just wasn't as impressive as my first one. The small patch of velcro failed in less than three years. Easy enough repair but I would have been prepared to pay more if it meant getting the original quality.

I'd have thought that faith in the product would be a major concern for such an item; how can you properly rest your pins if you think the damn thing is about to concertina on you?? Not a good move from Napier if others start noticing the penny-pinching.

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Brand names mean little nowadays, a few spoil it for the rest......don't be fooled, sometimes a name never or little heard of has top quality construction/build and materials....far better than an advertised brand.;)

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4 minutes ago, winkie said:

Brand names mean little nowadays, a few spoil it for the rest......don't be fooled, sometimes a name never or little heard of has top quality construction/build and materials....far better than an advertised brand.;)

As an aside I find it interesting to note, on the one hand, business' obsession with building a brand (practically ignoring all else - something brought even to the attention of the would be customer by shows like Dragons' Den and The Apprentice), and then on the other by Mike Ashley's brazen monetisation of (and hence destruction of) once premium brands.

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2 minutes ago, Sledgehead said:

As an aside I find it interesting to note, on the one hand, business' obsession with building a brand (practically ignoring all else - something brought even to the attention of the would be customer by shows like Dragons' Den and The Apprentice), and then on the other by Mike Ashley's brazen monetisation of (and hence destruction of) once premium brands.

Generally people are not fools....paying a high cost for something with a so called 'name' that differs little to something at half the cost but equally as good if not better....

Some brands make cheaper versions and high cost versions of the same product.....trying to be all things to all people.;)

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27 minutes ago, Sledgehead said:

The question is the same question one might ask of, say, Mercedes Benz cars post 1995: what happened to the better build-quality models going forward? Strikes me the Spectrum Gilet is just costly to make.

I could join the game of being deliberately obtuse and ask what point you are trying to make about price, out of some misplaced fear of being made to look silly by mistakingly putting words in your mouth . But that's not my style; so I say the only inference a reasonable person could draw from your reference to price is that somehow we are all getting much better value for money. And I that is exactly what you are supposed to think. Meanwhile premium lines are axed, quality falls and elsewhere we get duped by 'shrinkflation'.

Nothing of the sort... What happened to X is a bit of an ambiguous question really. My point on price is this... it's a cheap fleece, relatively. Why would you expect quality? The quality wasn't great when they were 2.5x today's price in real terms. 

There are still expensive fleeces in the Berghaus range (that will be better quality, but not great), why not go for one of those? I understand that you might not want to pay more, but then you should probably adjust your view on the position of the item you do want to buy on the quality/price spectrum. 

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1 minute ago, winkie said:

 

Some brands make cheaper versions and high cost versions of the same product.....trying to be all things to all people.;)

Like Berghaus Spectrum and Prism Gilets perchance? :D

And then they decide to axe the Spectrum, cos, let's face it, with Carney slaughtering the pound, can we really afford it?

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41 minutes ago, frozen_out said:

 

There are still expensive fleeces in the Berghaus range (that will be better quality, but not great), why not go for one of those? 

cos there is only one gilet - wtf do you suppose I asked you where the better quality Spectrum was?

seems to me you are deliberately ignoring this fact.

As for your attempt to make me feel stingy, :

Quote

. My point on price is this... it's a cheap fleece, relatively. Why would you expect quality? The quality wasn't great when they were 2.5x today's price in real terms. 

... you are referring to the Prism, which, I agree, looks cheap - the point I made right throughout this post - are you actually reading any of this?

As to the Spectrum here's a rundown of the best fleece gilets as rated by website "shootinguk" (grouse shooting upmarket enough for you?). The prices quoted are from £20 to £40. The 'cheappo' berghaus Prism is at the top of this range. The old stock of Spectrums (in sizes that don't suit) are hitting £50. 'Nuff said.

In short, Berghaus have probably axed their premium line cos they figure the Brits are a bunch of plebs who won't shell out more than £40 for a fleece w/o sleeves.

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18 minutes ago, Sledgehead said:

Like Berghaus Spectrum and Prism Gilets perchance? :D

And then they decide to axe the Spectrum, cos, let's face it, with Carney slaughtering the pound, can we really afford it?

It is disappointing when a brand name you have got to know and trust does the dirty on you and puts money, profits first, knowing that their product is now made to be inferior to what it once was.....it is more important to them than old customer loyalty, trust and quality......do it once never get a second opportunity to secure an old sale.......I am sure they hope their new customers will never know how good they used to be and so have nothing to compare with so are more likely to accept the made cheaply keep cheerful, buy one every year in every different colour......not made to last for a reason.;)

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I suspect that there's not much variation in the factory-gate costs of fleeces when they leave China or Indonesia.

Manufacturers do seem to be able to charge extra for design features though. Fleeces that look like they might be suitable for super-fit climbers to wear under their harnesses and rucksacks tend to be more expensive than the baggy ones that are probably more flattering for the average person.

I've just bought a  Berghaus Fortrose Pro jacket from Amazon for walking round Tescos, and it's very nice, but I guess it didn't cost much more to manufacture than basic baggy fleeces.

 

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23 hours ago, BristolBuyer said:

I've just bought a  Berghaus Fortrose Pro jacket from Amazon for walking round Tescos, and it's very nice, but I guess it didn't cost much more to manufacture than basic baggy fleeces.

 

Ding ding! We have a winner. Yes the raw material and labour costs would be almost identical. It will be around 5-6 pounds, and they are selling for 50 pounds. Cheaper fleece might be as low as 3-4 pounds. Even cheaper than these prices if they are made in India.

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  • 407 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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