Are art / collectibles / classic cars really a great store of value?

[otters]

16 hours ago, 2rocketman said:

Rolex watches seem to only go up in value. Stainless steel Daytona models are very desirable. Can pick up good ones for around 10k. No upkeep, easy to store, prove authenticity and come with a certificate.

Servicing by a certified Rolex dealership is now in excess of £450.

[2rocketman]

I went to Rolex in st James square London to have a watch serviced, can not remember how much it was but I would if it had cost that much, although this was quite a few years back. Just keep them in a safe and have them serviced before sale if necessary. However the collector I know of would not fear purchasing a watch that was in need of a service.

[newbonic]

12 hours ago, Diver Dan said:

I reckon that any 1980s or earlier motorcycle that hasn't been the subject of a cafe-racer or bobber style conversion should hold onto its value quite well in the medium to long term.

I know someone who restores 1970s Jap 2 strokes such as the evil Kwak triples. They do sell well as he restores them to vgc showroom condition. I'd think twice about riding them though as the cost of spares is horrendous, e.g. £800 to authentically respray the tank and £1200 for an exhaust etc. if you drop it. That's if you can get the bits as the manufacturers don't usually make them any more. And I imagine they're a magnet for thieves if you leave them parked anywhere.

On the last point, there's a massive industry in nicked bikes that get stripped for parts or shipped overseas (no left/right hand drive issues) which would give me second thoughts about buying one. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/features/have-million-missing-motorcycles-gone/

[Dogtanian]

@Craig_intriguing thanks, I heard from the apparant whisky certified expert next door that there is a Welsh whisky that won lots of awards recently - he was a judge.  Maybe that will be the next thing.  Had no idea some Japanese whisky made in UK though!

 

Somebody else I know had bought some old dark period (when?) furniture and you can seemingly get that pretty cheap.  i.e. not fashionable or practicable now for the peoples houses (smaller or minimal?) 

And a friend who recently downsized his music studio sold a few expensive microphones.  He had bought maybe 3 years before, one having to collect in India.  But surprisingly they had gone up in value.

[Diver Dan]

24 minutes ago, newbonic said:

I know someone who restores 1970s Jap 2 strokes such as the evil Kwak triples. They do sell well as he restores them to vgc showroom condition. I'd think twice about riding them though as the cost of spares is horrendous, e.g. £800 to authentically respray the tank and £1200 for an exhaust etc. if you drop it. That's if you can get the bits as the manufacturers don't usually make them any more. And I imagine they're a magnet for thieves if you leave them parked anywhere.

I was in the local Kawasaki dealership to have a look at the new retro style Z900 and was very impressed, similarly the Honda CB1100 and the Triumphs all with modern reliability and performance. Why you'd want some old relic that will need its trunions greased and its carbs rebalanced every month with a vowel in it is a mystery to me.

Motorcycles are funny, even a 'boring' one like an NC750 or the Deauville before it will still provide more thrills per mile than just about any car. But to a non-rider, it's just a motorbike whether its a Chinese built 125 or a limited edition Harley of Ducati.

[Errol]

17 hours ago, jiltedjen said:

watches I don’t see as holding value, just not relevant anymore

They will always be relevant as long as we have wrists to wear them on.

For a start, you can tell the time with them without having to have any other device on you (including underwater, in space or in the air). Second, these days they are very much a fashion/status symbol. People will continue to buy and collect them as long as humans have wrists.

The watch market continues to grow at staggering speed in many places with the young segment heavy buyers.

Edited December 19, 2017 by Errol

[Errol]

5 hours ago, otters said:

Servicing by a certified Rolex dealership is now in excess of £450.

Seems fair enough. What's the problem with that?

[Errol]

17 hours ago, Diver Dan said:

There was a recent case of a man in Northeast Scotland who had 3 mint condition Sierra Cosworths stolen. I found the whole thing quite puzzling because I couldn't work out who would actually do it.

Sierra Cosworths in mint condition can go for £50,000+ in the right circumstances. So you could be looking at £150k of cars there. That's why.

[MattW]

I'd give a King's ransom for a post 1967 Citroen DS.

[otters]

6 hours ago, otters said:

Servicing by a certified Rolex dealership is now in excess of £450.

 

30 minutes ago, Errol said:

Seems fair enough. What's the problem with that?

Who said there was a problem? 

Just saying there are ongoing costs, as say, with a vintage car, or anything that is aging and you want to keep in good condition.

It takes six weeks to service a Rolex, so I suppose on an hourly basis it is quite fair.

[sexton]

19 minutes ago, otters said:

 

Who said there was a problem? 

Just saying there are ongoing costs, as say, with a vintage car, or anything that is aging and you want to keep in good condition.

It takes six weeks to service a Rolex, so I suppose on an hourly basis it is quite fair.

The watch bloke is cheaper. Check out his work here. https://thewatchbloke.co.uk/category/rolex/

[reddog]

6 hours ago, Greg Bowman said:

I am with you, if you are into cars it can be part of your portfolio. My observation is high risk like Bitcoin, currency trading and now BTL so perhaps best to look at like that. For us Petrol heads can be fun. The problem and hey ho this comes down to land prices is storing them which adds to the cost and is often ignored. I am looking at Audi A2's at the moment as  a fun little punt.

The A2 could definitely be a classic as it was a unique design, unfortunately all that engineering wasn't appreciated and Audi released most people where just interested in the badge, so for their next small car they just did a build on top of the small VW family chassis / gearbox / engine.

[Diver Dan]

2 hours ago, Errol said:

Sierra Cosworths in mint condition can go for £50,000+ in the right circumstances. So you could be looking at £150k of cars there. That's why.

Yes, but they're only worth £50k if you can prove their provenance. This means you'll need all their original paperwork, bills and owners' club registrations etc. Plus the chassis and engine number will be on the watch list of various public and private databases meaning getting it serviced, MOTed or selling it on is not going to be easy.

[stuckmojo]

35 minutes ago, Diver Dan said:

Yes, but they're only worth £50k if you can prove their provenance. This means you'll need all their original paperwork, bills and owners' club registrations etc. Plus the chassis and engine number will be on the watch list of various public and private databases meaning getting it serviced, MOTed or selling it on is not going to be easy.

That is true. That's why there are some people leaving things like a Ferrari F40 out on the street in London. By the flipside, things like RS Audis and Golf R are getting stolen by the hundreds, with scary home invasions etc. The chavs nicking them might only make £200 per car each but if you're stealing 4 x night you're not doing badly. They never get caught either.

 

[Greg Bowman]

2 hours ago, reddog said:

The A2 could definitely be a classic as it was a unique design, unfortunately all that engineering wasn't appreciated and Audi released most people where just interested in the badge, so for their next small car they just did a build on top of the small VW family chassis / gearbox / engine.

Its been tipped in a few places, in addition it was sold at a loss (because of the engineering) and still a few in the hands of little old ladies as it were

[NuBrit]

23 hours ago, Habeas Domus said:

Younger people hardly ever wear a watch at all so I don't see the trend continuing for too much longer. At some point the demand is  going to fall off a cliff.

This happened to my grandfathers coin collection. Back in the 60's and 70's, coin collecting was a huge hobby, all kids did it and valuations only ever went up. When I inherited it in the 90s it was worth a small 5 figure sum. Stupidly, I kept it for sentimental reasons and today after inflation I'd say I would be lucky if it was worth 40% of its previous value.

Not sure what you could collect these days that would be worth money in the future. Young people of today are so cash strapped if they can even afford a car, it will be something so awful that they won't be nostalgic about it 20 years from now. All movies/music/computer games are all digital now. Even traditional things to collect like coins and stamps are on their way out as these things go digital. Even jewellery seems like a bad idea. One lad in the office recently got engaged, instead of buying engagement rings, they bought themselves the latest iphone and got them engraved. I am pretty sure that in ten years time, even a spotless iphone x will be worth about £50-£100.

[Frugal Git]

7 minutes ago, NuBrit said:

All movies/music/computer games are all digital now. Even traditional things to collect like coins and stamps are on their way out as these things go digital. Even jewellery seems like a bad idea. One lad in the office recently got engaged, instead of buying engagement rings, they bought themselves the latest iphone and got them engraved. I am pretty sure that in ten years time, even a spotless iphone x will be worth about £50-£100.

Ok, that is a new peak in human stupidity ?

I doubt jewellery will seem like a bad idea when the iPhone XIII comes out and Apple hobbles the battery on X's via iOS 14 (accidentally of course ?). 

[Rhaegal]

20 hours ago, NuBrit said:

One lad in the office recently got engaged, instead of buying engagement rings, they bought themselves the latest iphone and got them engraved. I am pretty sure that in ten years time, even a spotless iphone x will be worth about £50-£100.

That's depressing. Hardly a symbol of eternal love is it

[Sugarlips]

On 20/12/2017 at 7:15 AM, NuBrit said:

Not sure what you could collect these days that would be worth money in the future. Young people of today are so cash strapped if they can even afford a car, it will be something so awful that they won't be nostalgic about it 20 years from now. All movies/music/computer games are all digital now. Even traditional things to collect like coins and stamps are on their way out as these things go digital. Even jewellery seems like a bad idea. One lad in the office recently got engaged, instead of buying engagement rings, they bought themselves the latest iphone and got them engraved. I am pretty sure that in ten years time, even a spotless iphone x will be worth about £50-£100.

Hard to imagine iphones being worth money in the future however their predecessors the early walkmans and early apple products are now sought after, i wonder if its worth collecting and holding onto the colourful 90s iMacs for future value? They sold in the millions but surely 99% would be long gone now and they were v cool designs in their day..

 

Also does anyone know much about collecting old bikes? Surely way cheaper to look after than cars..?

[Sugarlips]

To clarify i meant bicycles not motor bikes

[Fence]

On 19/12/2017 at 12:44 PM, newbonic said:

such as the evil Kwak triples

Ah, the old "killer".  D'em were the days.  Die riding d'em then, broke riding them now.  Tough stuff.

[dougless]

Kawasaki Triples wern't evil, you just needed to understand their weaknesses.  The H1 had a fierce power band (almost like a 125cc until 6000 rpm and then WHOOOSH) and a frame that was not stiff enough.  You just needed to take care about when you turned on the power otherwise it would become very scary.

[sideysid]

On 19/12/2017 at 7:56 PM, stuckmojo said:

That is true. That's why there are some people leaving things like a Ferrari F40 out on the street in London. By the flipside, things like RS Audis and Golf R are getting stolen by the hundreds, with scary home invasions etc. The chavs nicking them might only make £200 per car each but if you're stealing 4 x night you're not doing badly. They never get caught either.

 

Germany has a issue with BMW/Mercedes cars being broke into if they are highly specced in options. The head units, screens and controllers are then stripped out and mysteriously end up for sale on Ebay from places like Lithuania.

[stuckmojo]

22 minutes ago, sideysid said:

Germany has a issue with BMW/Mercedes cars being broke into if they are highly specced in options. The head units, screens and controllers are then stripped out and mysteriously end up for sale on Ebay from places like Lithuania.

Yes. it's blatant. go on Ebay and look for parts for any German car. Provenance: Lithuania. Obviously stolen. 

[reddog]

5 hours ago, stuckmojo said:

Yes. it's blatant. go on Ebay and look for parts for any German car. Provenance: Lithuania. Obviously stolen. 

Some bild reporter had half of his car stolen last week.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/m.bild.de/regional/duesseldorf/verbrechensopfer/bmw-bande-nahm-sogar-motorhaube-mit-54170420,view=amp.bildMobile.html

 

I know some one in Germany that basically had the whole dashboard of her VW golf stolen, but the police told her it was Romanian gang's.  Not quite sure how the German's can stay so positive about the EU!!  Talk about brainwashed.