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Bitcoin – Is it me?


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2 minutes ago, Lavalas said:

Apart from the latest proposal to move any non Bitcoin cyrpto chat out of the main forum. Be positive about Bitcoin or go elsewhere.

I've never understood why people care about the location of a thread. I can't be bothered trawling through each forum looking for interesting stuff so I do the sensible thing and use:

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/discover/unread/

I've pretty much forgotten or don't know where any particular thread resides in the forum hierarchy. 

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I don’t want to post this on the Bubbly Bitcoin Thread, because reading through that it seems to be turning into the Bitcoin Supporters Club thread. I’m writing this in its own thread, because th

i have control of the security in place for physical gold does virtual have that ? complete self control . hell i could cut a hole in the wall brick it back up and plaster it over who is going to find

I don't know how this thread can avoid evolving into anything other than a carbon-copy of the original thread, unless you ban Bitcoin's proponents from posting here.  

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My response has just been answered by one of the following posters ADAMLANCS. I don't think you can see where im coming from

That said thanks for taking the time to reply, but i think we'll agree to disagree. 

Hopefully the people heavily invested from this site dont lose out too much when it all goes pear shaped. Im afraid i feel it will

 

Edited by wsn03
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Via email but doubt author would mind posting:

A Visit From Crypto-Claus: A Holiday Poem From Macro Man
By Cameron Crise (Bloomberg) --

’Twas the night before Christmas, and all through the house
Every person was trading, including my spouse;
The mining rigs hummed in the cellar with care,
In hopes that some new bitcoins soon would be there;

The children were buying tokens from their beds,
While visions of Porsche Turbos danced in their heads;
And Mama on her laptop, and I on PC
Searched for the next big buying opportunity --

But then from my desk there arose such a clatter,
I answered the phone to see what was the matter.
I squinted to see by the light of the taper,
As a teenager walked me through his white paper.

When, what to my wondering eyes should appear
But a bearded millennial drinking craft beer
He pulled out his phone, checked his what-do-you-call-it
Where one keeps one’s tokens- his digital wallet.

More rapid than lightning, the rallies they came
And he whistled, and shouted, and called them by name:
"Now Bitcoin! Now Litecoin! Now Ether and Ripple!
If Monero can double, then you can all triple!

To the top of the chart! Break the resistance wall!
Now dash away! Dash away! Dash away all!"
And then with a wink, to my office he flew
While lugging a case and swigging his brew

As he prepped his ICO pitch to help me gain,
I confirmed a few transactions on the blockchain.
His slide deck was thick; his paper, full of detail
About how he’d attract bids from Asian retail.

His eyes--how they twinkled! So this was no hobby
He clearly knew how to pitch the Watanabes
When I asked if he’d come from the North he said "No.
The coin-mining rigs have all melted the snow.

I leave for the coast on my sleigh in an hour.
My wind-farm provides me with super-cheap power."
What about the Fed? Do you see any trouble?
He laughed, "You know central banks can’t spot a bubble.

The worst they can do is say ’buyer beware.’
It’s like the Wild West... pretty much laissez-faire."
Is there intrinsic value? I mean, what can I buy?
He looked at me sadly and let out a sigh.

Then shaking his head, tapped the side of his nose.
"You mean that you can’t see the Emperor’s new clothes?
You’re not a believer, I can feel in my loins.
C’mon! A chap once bought some pizza with coins.

You know that the ledger, it needs proof of work.
You’re not only a doubter, you’re some kind of jerk.
Your insistence on value is pretty quaint, Gramps.
Stick to trading stocks or maybe collect stamps.

My coin’s not for you, I’ve seen more than enough."
Then he packed up his things and he left in a huff.
But I heard him exclaim as he left, sight unseen:
Happy holidays all, and good luck in ’18!

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2 hours ago, guest_northshore said:

Via email but doubt author would mind posting:

A Visit From Crypto-Claus: A Holiday Poem From Macro Man
By Cameron Crise (Bloomberg) --

’Twas the night before Christmas...

Ho ho ho!

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8 hours ago, guest_northshore said:

Via email but doubt author would mind posting:

A Visit From Crypto-Claus: A Holiday Poem From Macro Man
By Cameron Crise (Bloomberg) --

’Twas the night before Christmas, and all through the house
Every person was trading, including my spouse;
The mining rigs hummed in the cellar with care,
In hopes that some new bitcoins soon would be there;

The children were buying tokens from their beds,
While visions of Porsche Turbos danced in their heads;
And Mama on her laptop, and I on PC
Searched for the next big buying opportunity --

But then from my desk there arose such a clatter,
I answered the phone to see what was the matter.
I squinted to see by the light of the taper,
As a teenager walked me through his white paper.

When, what to my wondering eyes should appear
But a bearded millennial drinking craft beer
He pulled out his phone, checked his what-do-you-call-it
Where one keeps one’s tokens- his digital wallet.

More rapid than lightning, the rallies they came
And he whistled, and shouted, and called them by name:
"Now Bitcoin! Now Litecoin! Now Ether and Ripple!
If Monero can double, then you can all triple!

To the top of the chart! Break the resistance wall!
Now dash away! Dash away! Dash away all!"
And then with a wink, to my office he flew
While lugging a case and swigging his brew

As he prepped his ICO pitch to help me gain,
I confirmed a few transactions on the blockchain.
His slide deck was thick; his paper, full of detail
About how he’d attract bids from Asian retail.

His eyes--how they twinkled! So this was no hobby
He clearly knew how to pitch the Watanabes
When I asked if he’d come from the North he said "No.
The coin-mining rigs have all melted the snow.

I leave for the coast on my sleigh in an hour.
My wind-farm provides me with super-cheap power."
What about the Fed? Do you see any trouble?
He laughed, "You know central banks can’t spot a bubble.

The worst they can do is say ’buyer beware.’
It’s like the Wild West... pretty much laissez-faire."
Is there intrinsic value? I mean, what can I buy?
He looked at me sadly and let out a sigh.

Then shaking his head, tapped the side of his nose.
"You mean that you can’t see the Emperor’s new clothes?
You’re not a believer, I can feel in my loins.
C’mon! A chap once bought some pizza with coins.

You know that the ledger, it needs proof of work.
You’re not only a doubter, you’re some kind of jerk.
Your insistence on value is pretty quaint, Gramps.
Stick to trading stocks or maybe collect stamps.

My coin’s not for you, I’ve seen more than enough."
Then he packed up his things and he left in a huff.
But I heard him exclaim as he left, sight unseen:
Happy holidays all, and good luck in ’18!

Brilliant!! And so accurate too.

Edited by wsn03
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 15/12/2017 at 7:21 PM, wsn03 said:

BITCOIN is a brilliant idea that has gone way out of control. A rationally thought out trading alternative that has become a frenzied bubble for techies. What could possibly go wrong?

 

 

Is it me? Am I missing something? Am I being really thick here? Or is this another .dot com bubble waiting to burst? Has the wagon got so heavy that the brake is no longer working? Did the clever money jump off it already?

If you only consider Bitcoin in complete isolation to all other cryptocurrencies, then your points stand.  Bitcoin has little real-world utility right now.  It's slow, expensive, very environmentally unfriendly.

However, why would you only look at Bitcoin and ignore all the other cryptocurrencies that DO have a real-world problem-solving uses? A modicum amount of research will show you that the blockchain itself is incredibly useful.  It's useful because it eliminates the concept of trust.  That is a huge thing.  Trust means we need PayPal, Amazon, Google, banks!  Without trust (trustless), we don't need a 3rd party.  The blockchain's immutable data it stores means we know that data has not been edited.  I see the blockchain being as disruptive - if not MORE - than the internet.  Many other people see it that way too, including big businesses like IBM, VW, Bosch, Santander, AmEX, Western Union, etc. 

I made a post here that links specific real-world problems to specific cryptocurrencies looking to solve those problems:-

I'll be blunt here: if you view cryptocurrencies as being only Bitcoin (like a BBC way of looking at many things lol), and steadfastly refuse to research the crypto space to find out more about it, then there's really nothing anyone can do to persuade you that cryptos = tulips.

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9 hours ago, canbuywontbuy said:

A modicum amount of research will show you that the blockchain itself is incredibly useful.  It's useful because it eliminates the concept of trust.  That is a huge thing.  Trust means we need PayPal, Amazon, Google, banks!  Without trust (trustless), we don't need a 3rd party.  The blockchain's immutable data it stores means we know that data has not been edited.  I see the blockchain being as disruptive - if not MORE - than the internet.  Many other people see it that way too, including big businesses like IBM, VW, Bosch, Santander, AmEX, Western Union, etc. 

I made a post here that links specific real-world problems to specific cryptocurrencies looking to solve those problems:-

 

I'm not sure that decentralisation for its own sake is inherently useful.

For example, Elixir's whitepaper describes its role as a token for decentralised peer-to-peer lending and it does appear possible to use it for this.   However, a centralised P2P lending service can provide a debt recovery service, whereas a decentralised service cannot.  Therefore although a decentralised P2P lending service can exist, I don't see a compelling reason why it is better than a centralised service.

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20 hours ago, Will! said:

I'm not sure that decentralisation for its own sake is inherently useful. Therefore although a decentralised P2P lending service can exist, I don't see a compelling reason why it is better than a centralised service.

  • with smart contracts you can borrow directly from a lender without going through a centralised system - both borrower and lender would pay less fees (assuming normal market forces).  In theory, it should also be a lot quicker to process a loan - it's on an immutable blockchain - no need for a 3rd party to verify everything - two people (lender/borrower) can co-sign a smart contract and money can be lent out.  Sure, there's a company running the whole blockchain and they will take a cut, but they will be running on lower overheads than a business running a centralised system. 
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4 hours ago, canbuywontbuy said:
  • with smart contracts you can borrow directly from a lender without going through a centralised system - both borrower and lender would pay less fees (assuming normal market forces).  In theory, it should also be a lot quicker to process a loan - it's on an immutable blockchain - no need for a 3rd party to verify everything - two people (lender/borrower) can co-sign a smart contract and money can be lent out.  Sure, there's a company running the whole blockchain and they will take a cut, but they will be running on lower overheads than a business running a centralised system. 

Serious question: how much lower do you think P2P lending overheads might be on a decentralised system compared to a centralised one?  Loans are only made when the borrowing target is reached so there’s no advantage to quicker processing of individual offers to lend.

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13 hours ago, Will! said:

Serious question: how much lower do you think P2P lending overheads might be on a decentralised system compared to a centralised one?  Loans are only made when the borrowing target is reached so there’s no advantage to quicker processing of individual offers to lend.

The biggest advantage of blockchain is the removal of a 3rd party arbitrator as trust is not a requirement (a subtle, yet significant benefit of the blockchain).  The savings in costs would be mainly human resources that a centralised system would need, which should be a considerable saving.  Actually EthLend is a good example of a decentralised P2P lending company in my opinion. 

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