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30 minutes ago, Flopsy said:

There are so many confused arguments in your post I will try and deal with the few I have direct experience of.

I've been disabled for all of my adult life and also a taxpayer for most of it. You don't talk for all "tax payers". It's an issue for me that having paid taxes for all these decades that when I do need help I cannot get the benefits and financial and health care that I supposedly paid into.

Also as a taxpayer I resent landlords mortgage payments and expenses being taxed favorably. Although that is changing it's too little and too later

Also resent benefits being paid to rich older people who own property and what little care my council offers going once again to older people with property. I had to move home at the whim of a landlord recently and that complicated getting treatment for cancer.

Resent that there is a ceiling level on cash holdings for some benefits and not property meaning that my savings for a potential deposit for a home are taken into consideration but not the property-rich. 

Resent that the Government can change the criteria for being particular benefits leaving me at times unable to work and yet not considered "disabled" enough or suddenly not meeting criteria.

How exactly do we "mitigate" against life events around serious sickness and disability when it's out of the reach of many of us? My own group of people with neurological disease has people denied private benefits that they paid into or fights of up to 6 years to get access to these private benefits. How are they supposed to survive until then. They may not even be "lucky enough" to get a condition that is covered.

There was little in the way of private insurance when I was a teenager. I've lived off my savings from paid work but I was lucky enough to get well paid when I could. Not everyone gets this lucky. 

Yes, I have a "sense of entitlement". I started work in my teens, worked through uni, paid taxes and then worked for decades when I was physically able to. Lived off my savings instead of claiming a benefit. Yet when I applied I was treated with contempt and dishonesty. 

You claim that benefit abuse is part of your sentence on " ..... larger than you realise" yet you have no figures on actual fraud or considered on how much money the govt is spending on fraud detection, if it works and how to do this fairly.

You are lucky that you have an income and steady work and health.

 

You are right.  I would also like to know where the stats are to support the statement that millions are somehow playing the system.   NEWSFLASH, they don't exist.    I am a taxpayer (before my son was born I was a high-rate tax payer) and have paid in all my life.  I was happy to do so because that's what you do in a civilised society.  None of us know when something might go wrong in our lives, it is impossible to plan for every eventuality.  I am less happy now knowing my taxes are being used to get the wealthy a tax break, or to large companies whose raison d'être seems to be to punish the poor and disabled. 

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Hmm; the other evening made 10 servings (much of it to cool and then go into freezer) for around £10 + energy costs of oven/slow-cooker + some time to be involved in it. A lot of it comes down on

58 minutes ago, Flopsy said:

There are so many confused arguments in your post I will try and deal with the few I have direct experience of.

I've been disabled for all of my adult life and also a taxpayer for most of it. You don't talk for all "tax payers". It's an issue for me that having paid taxes for all these decades that when I do need help I cannot get the benefits and financial and health care that I supposedly paid into.

Also as a taxpayer I resent landlords mortgage payments and expenses being taxed favorably. Although that is changing it's too little and too later

Also resent benefits being paid to rich older people who own property and what little care my council offers going once again to older people with property. I had to move home at the whim of a landlord recently and that complicated getting treatment for cancer.

Resent that there is a ceiling level on cash holdings for some benefits and not property meaning that my savings for a potential deposit for a home are taken into consideration but not the property-rich. 

Resent that the Government can change the criteria for being particular benefits leaving me at times unable to work and yet not considered "disabled" enough or suddenly not meeting criteria.

How exactly do we "mitigate" against life events around serious sickness and disability when it's out of the reach of many of us? My own group of people with neurological disease has people denied private benefits that they paid into or fights of up to 6 years to get access to these private benefits. How are they supposed to survive until then. They may not even be "lucky enough" to get a condition that is covered.

There was little in the way of private insurance when I was a teenager. I've lived off my savings from paid work but I was lucky enough to get well paid when I could. Not everyone gets this lucky. 

Yes, I have a "sense of entitlement". I started work in my teens, worked through uni, paid taxes and then worked for decades when I was physically able to. Lived off my savings instead of claiming a benefit. Yet when I applied I was treated with contempt and dishonesty. 

You claim that benefit abuse is part of your sentence on " ..... larger than you realise" yet you have no figures on actual fraud or considered on how much money the govt is spending on fraud detection, if it works and how to do this fairly.

You are lucky that you have an income and steady work and health.

 

Here is a blog that calculates that the Government figures on fraud are wrong - it is hard therefore to get accurate figures.

http://www.benefitfraud.org.uk/total-benefit-fraud/index.html

However no one here wants people who are unable to work to suffer - but sometimes people on benefits gets too much (not due to fraud but because they do not have the same rules as the rest of us, like having to move somewhere cheaper).  When I started working it took me years to afford a small house - I know pro single parents who got one in zone 3 as a right. (I have no chance of ever living in zone 3 BTW)

Edited by iamnumerate
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4 hours ago, iamnumerate said:

Really why does Richard Branson want higher house prices?  How does it make him richer?

Because he sells mortgages and owns a bank. Take away the props and 2-4 times average salary were enough to buy an ok house, less people would be debt slaves. (presumably)

 

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On 15/12/2017 at 6:37 PM, BearsEye said:

I was at the end in 2013 and was about to bite the bullet and buy, then Carney and HTB came long.

To say they've destroyed the plans i had for raising my child is an understatement, i have pure hatred for these people yet the lemmings continue to back the majority of this filth in Brexit, a nation full of traitors.

Welcome to the board, BearsEye - I was struck that there wasn't a lot of response to your post, I think it's because of the 'traitors' comment, lots of anti-EU feeling on here. I'm on the fence, I hate racism but I also hate the EU - as a nasty driver of the evils of neo-liberalism. Didn't vote to leave but still, I don't think everyone who did is a lemming/traitor/racist, pick a term, there's just too many people having too hard a time and the EU is not on the side of working people, never has been.

Anyway, what you're voicing here is something I've heard from friends of mine with kids who don't own a place. I don't have children myself but I understand that the horrible and health-threatening stresses caused by this shitstorm of a housing crisis are hugely magnified if you do. I can't imagine how horrible it is to worry about your kids' futures as well as your own and it's so ridiculous that having a roof over one's head is now the ambition of a lifetime. Take heart, it can't last forever - your children's generation will put it right, if people in their 20s now don't beat them to it, and I really think they might. I'm much too old and knackered to do anything but when it all hits the streets I'll make myself a celebratory pot of tea and cheer them on the telly.

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6 minutes ago, North London Rent Girl said:

I don't have children myself but I understand that the horrible and health-threatening stresses caused by this shitstorm of a housing crisis are hugely magnified if you do.

True - my children are grown up now and throughout their lives they have always known a consistently stable housing environment. I can't imagine how difficult it must be to bring up children if you're always only 2 months away from potential upheaval.

This time last year I was renting in an HMO owned by some very dodgy people, and bad enough as a single bloke. Heartbreaking watching fellow tenants with families trying to make things nice for their young ones. 

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6 hours ago, Greg Bowman said:

 

Finally @Thorn this massive reset idea always makes me smile. Our system is imperfect yes but better than the majority of the world. Who would benefit form a massive reset ? Do you really think it would be people who don't have financial, emotional and physical strength now - let's face it unlikely isn't it ?

 

 

 

Unlikely or not I think it’s needed and it is coming.

I think it’s the hopelessness of Modern Britain outside the assetowning class that needs to be Reset. Work is almost pointless it’s just survival. The need to try and Save a Bit and grow Capital and Think of Tomorrow and Manage Your Finances and Get On The Ladder are not an issue if you can barely make ends meet. All you think of is have your kids a bed tonight. Tomorrow doesn’t exist.

If you didn’t own a house when Mark Carney started QE to make all the boomers assets go up, you’re now a slave to be legally kicked around and moved around for life. I didn’t grow up wanting to be a burden and I don’t want to be a slave. And work gets you nowhere unless you have a handout from BOMAD.

There is now so much pointlessness- pointless university degrees, pointless loyalty to businesses that pay their directors well but nobody else, so much learned helplessness out there - and it removes the incentive to strive.

I think a Massive Reset is needed to remove the pointlessness for the section of the country that don’t have all the assets.

There is not enough hope.

Edited by Thorn
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3 hours ago, BearsEye said:

Because he sells mortgages and owns a bank. Take away the props and 2-4 times average salary were enough to buy an ok house, less people would be debt slaves. (presumably)

 

What about James Dyson or Noel Gallagher why do they want house prices to be higher? I can believe that some people (not all 1%) want houses to be more expensive, but the idea that the 1% all want it and that causes it, has not been proved - too many of them don't benefit from it.

Edited by iamnumerate
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On ‎15‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 6:37 PM, BearsEye said:

I was at the end in 2013 and was about to bite the bullet and buy, then Carney and HTB came long.

To say they've destroyed the plans i had for raising my child is an understatement, i have pure hatred for these people yet the lemmings continue to back the majority of this filth in Brexit, a nation full of traitors.

 

Hello BearsEye I'm in the same position. When we get evicted they are allowed to give us just 4 weeks notice to get out over here in NIreland. The gear is ready to be packed all the time. I think there are so many of us left out by the policies that have made Asset-Owners Richer that it cannot last.  

I want to think the Vote was decent people saying No to Modern Unfair Britain and hoping for some fairness and a chance. 

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5 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

What about James Dyson or Noel Gallagher why do they want house prices to be higher? I can believe that some people (not all 1%) want houses to be more expensive, but the idea that the 1% all want it and that causes it, has not been proved - too many of them don't benefit from it.

James Dyson owns more land than the Queen so he's an easy one as presumably he bought it as a hedge and for the free money it brings in, as for Noel Gallagher well like everyone else in the 1% (bar the few) he's said sweet FA about the financial rape of the non asset owning class that is QE, ZIRP, TFS and the rest.

By the way i am only playing devils advocate.

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5 minutes ago, Thorn said:

Hello BearsEye I'm in the same position. When we get evicted they are allowed to give us just 4 weeks notice to get out over here in NIreland. The gear is ready to be packed all the time. I think there are so many of us left out by the policies that have made Asset-Owners Richer that it cannot last.  

I want to think the Vote was decent people saying No to Modern Unfair Britain and hoping for some fairness and a chance. 

All ive heard from these traitor politicians since the referendum is BREXIT BREXIT BREXIT how they're going to stop it,  the games and deviousness they come up with to stop it is endless.

But If this scum and they are scum put just a fraction as much effort into fighting for affordable housing and spoke the truth then it would happen rather quickly, yet all we get from all 3 parties is its a housing shortage. When its not and they know full well its pretty much solely to do with loose cheap lending and LIBLABCON + BOE policies.

 

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1 hour ago, iamnumerate said:

What about James Dyson or Noel Gallagher why do they want house prices to be higher? I can believe that some people (not all 1%) want houses to be more expensive, but the idea that the 1% all want it and that causes it, has not been proved - too many of them don't benefit from it.

Its not all about house prices.  Its about control.  Power.  Today the Cabinet debated what happens post-Brexit to the Working Time Directive rules.  Paid holidays, workers rights, limits on what constitutes a working day/week that kind of thing.  PM May ain't agreeing to your rights, just so you know.  Its this kind of backtrack which makes people like James Dyson a lot more money.  Noel Gallagher hardly typical 1% btw.  Doubt if he is 1%, or even 10%.  More likely just a tax bill away from I'm A Celeb.  Not a mass employer.   Shame legal aid, trade unions went.  If you don't like the new rules your workplace may make in future, it's kinda tough.  

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On 17/12/2017 at 9:05 AM, jimmy2x3 said:

the answer has been the same for 20 years but no-one seems willing to do it on here, just moan and moan and yet fail to understand they are creating the problems for themselves.

The answer is find an alternative to the slavery you have created for yourself.  i rented a unit for my work, and then build a bedroom into the office area inside it. i also lived in a van for 2 years and a garden shed for another year. while doing so i kept myself on the council housing lists in a few places and eventually something came up. there is no fecking way im paying any nosey, interfering, amatuer landlord half my wages so they can feel smug about little me. no way , absolutely no way i would stay in hotels which incidently often work out cheaper that renting a flat, imagine that ehh, flats so expensive that you can stay in decent hotels cheaper with no bills or council tax and someone comes in and cleans your room and changes the sheets, 

yet i sit on here since this website was created listening to all the injustices.  your problem is your playing the game then moaning about it, you are by default creating your own downfall. 

Go buy a large van can get a decent sprinter for 3k/5k kit it out very nice, and live yourself a cheaper and more private and stress free life, funny thats what a lot of your landlords are doing, they are spending the rent money on motorhomes and living in them half the year while their tenents get shafted from them because they feel somehow ashamed to do the same. well one time i had some sympathy for the plight but not now because none seems to want to do anything to help their predicament. 

my next move is to buy a tumble down fixer upper shack in france or ireland or somewhere achievable for 20k/30k and only work 6 months a year. this would be completely un-achievable if paying private landlords rent, infact the only way to not be doing that for ever is 1. do as above or 2. inheriate the money.

Man after my own heart! I'm taking the same route, except my van is a Citroen Relay ;)
Recently divorced at 59, I pursuing new directions for 2018, none of which involve paying rent or accumulating debt ever again.
I may not even end up living in my van but it will be my insurance policy against finding myself at the mercy of the slavery-system.
As you say, most people can't imagine living outside of the plantation and will try to shame anybody who does - more fool them!

Edited by Turned Out Nice Again
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6 minutes ago, Turned Out Nice Again said:

Man after my own heart! I'm taking the same route, except my van is a Citroen Relay ;)
Recently divorced at 59, I pursuing new directions for 2018, none of which involve paying rent or accumulating debt ever again.
I may not even end up living in my van but it will be my insurance policy against finding myself at the mercy of the slavery-system.
As you say, most people can't imagine living outside of the plantation and will try to shame anybody who does - more fool them!

yes there comes a point when you must stop spitting in the wind. aceept the reality and then change the only thing about it you realistically can and thats the part you play in it. 

 

if the butcher demanded half your wages you would just keep your own pigs and chickens and tell him to f45k off

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20 hours ago, Flopsy said:

There are so many confused arguments in your post I will try and deal with the few I have direct experience of.

I've been disabled for all of my adult life and also a taxpayer for most of it. You don't talk for all "tax payers". It's an issue for me that having paid taxes for all these decades that when I do need help I cannot get the benefits and financial and health care that I supposedly paid into.

Also as a taxpayer I resent landlords mortgage payments and expenses being taxed favorably. Although that is changing it's too little and too later

Also resent benefits being paid to rich older people who own property and what little care my council offers going once again to older people with property. I had to move home at the whim of a landlord recently and that complicated getting treatment for cancer.

Resent that there is a ceiling level on cash holdings for some benefits and not property meaning that my savings for a potential deposit for a home are taken into consideration but not the property-rich. 

Resent that the Government can change the criteria for being particular benefits leaving me at times unable to work and yet not considered "disabled" enough or suddenly not meeting criteria.

How exactly do we "mitigate" against life events around serious sickness and disability when it's out of the reach of many of us? My own group of people with neurological disease has people denied private benefits that they paid into or fights of up to 6 years to get access to these private benefits. How are they supposed to survive until then. They may not even be "lucky enough" to get a condition that is covered.

There was little in the way of private insurance when I was a teenager. I've lived off my savings from paid work but I was lucky enough to get well paid when I could. Not everyone gets this lucky. 

Yes, I have a "sense of entitlement". I started work in my teens, worked through uni, paid taxes and then worked for decades when I was physically able to. Lived off my savings instead of claiming a benefit. Yet when I applied I was treated with contempt and dishonesty. 

You claim that benefit abuse is part of your sentence on " ..... larger than you realise" yet you have no figures on actual fraud or considered on how much money the govt is spending on fraud detection, if it works and how to do this fairly.

You are lucky that you have an income and steady work and health.

 

I think you are confused if I may say so. My first para recognises we need a welfare safety net for anyone who has been dealt an unfortunate hand in todays society including being disabled. If you have read any of my posts over eight years you will see I thank god for my health and luck often and that includes being  a boomer.

My comment re mitigate was aimed at someone who isn't disabled or disadvantaged and plays the system because it is easy at the expense of tax payers who do not claim.

Edit: Just reread my post and I think I am at pains to say none of it was aimed at genuine claimants. I also believe the system sucks re genuine people claiming and conservative with a small c administration wouldn't allow that but those days are long gone

Edited by Greg Bowman
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17 hours ago, Thorn said:

Unlikely or not I think it’s needed and it is coming.

I think it’s the hopelessness of Modern Britain outside the assetowning class that needs to be Reset. Work is almost pointless it’s just survival. The need to try and Save a Bit and grow Capital and Think of Tomorrow and Manage Your Finances and Get On The Ladder are not an issue if you can barely make ends meet. All you think of is have your kids a bed tonight. Tomorrow doesn’t exist.

If you didn’t own a house when Mark Carney started QE to make all the boomers assets go up, you’re now a slave to be legally kicked around and moved around for life. I didn’t grow up wanting to be a burden and I don’t want to be a slave. And work gets you nowhere unless you have a handout from BOMAD.

There is now so much pointlessness- pointless university degrees, pointless loyalty to businesses that pay their directors well but nobody else, so much learned helplessness out there - and it removes the incentive to strive.

I think a Massive Reset is needed to remove the pointlessness for the section of the country that don’t have all the assets.

There is not enough hope.

I agree with everything you say especially your last line

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21 hours ago, Thorn said:

Unlikely or not I think it’s needed and it is coming.

I think it’s the hopelessness of Modern Britain outside the assetowning class that needs to be Reset. Work is almost pointless it’s just survival. The need to try and Save a Bit and grow Capital and Think of Tomorrow and Manage Your Finances and Get On The Ladder are not an issue if you can barely make ends meet. All you think of is have your kids a bed tonight. Tomorrow doesn’t exist.

If you didn’t own a house when Mark Carney started QE to make all the boomers assets go up, you’re now a slave to be legally kicked around and moved around for life. I didn’t grow up wanting to be a burden and I don’t want to be a slave. And work gets you nowhere unless you have a handout from BOMAD.

There is now so much pointlessness- pointless university degrees, pointless loyalty to businesses that pay their directors well but nobody else, so much learned helplessness out there - and it removes the incentive to strive.

I think a Massive Reset is needed to remove the pointlessness for the section of the country that don’t have all the assets.

There is not enough hope.

+ 100%

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On 18/12/2017 at 9:29 AM, Maynardgravy said:

What checks do the authorities do on these people so that the genuinely needy get what they need? It's almost as if it's deliberate in order to build up the contempt.

Before anyone asks, I had thought about complaining but they're family and I just couldn't bring myself to do that.

Really not sure, puzzles me. I think we all have personal examples. My uncle hasn't worked in god knows how many years. He used to be an IT guy so sat a desk all day basically...but had to give up work due to his fibromyalgia which supposedly severely restricted his movement. When I lived round the corner from him I used to see him walking his dog past my front living room window most evenings. I'd sometimes catch up with him if I was out on the front garden, he was either pretty good at hiding some disability or discomfort or there was very little wrong with him. My dad and him fell out over the new car thing so rarely speak these days, him pulling up every 3 years to show off his brand new car got a bit much for my dad on one occasion. He was struggling to keep a banged up 14 year old Mondeo on the drive at the time so I think he had a right to be aggreived. Aunt on my dad's side isn't/wasn't much better either; milked my grandmother out of several hundred k keeping her and other losers on the estate in booze (and the life of luxury) while she made up a list of reasons why she couldn't physically work. Nice way to destroy an entire family's inheritance.

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2 minutes ago, SillyBilly said:

Really not sure, puzzles me. I think we all have personal examples. My uncle hasn't worked in god knows how many years. He used to be an IT guy so sat a desk all day basically...but had to give up work due to his fibromyalgia which supposedly severely restricted his movement. When I lived round the corner from him I used to see him walking his dog past my front living room window most evenings. I'd sometimes catch up with him if I was out on the front garden, he was either pretty good at hiding some disability or discomfort or there was very little wrong with him. My dad and him fell out over the new car thing so rarely speak these days, him pulling up every 3 years to show off his brand new car got a bit much for my dad on one occasion. He was struggling to keep a banged up 14 year old Mondeo on the drive at the time so I think he had a right to be aggreived. Aunt on my dad's side isn't/wasn't much better either; milked my grandmother out of several hundred k keeping her and other losers on the estate in booze (and the life of luxury) while she made up a list of reasons why she couldn't physically work. Nice way to destroy an entire family's inheritance.

I used to do martial arts with someone who was unable to work because of health issues - he was a lot fitter than 90% of the population.

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  • 433 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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