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Surely we are near the end?


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6 hours ago, jimmy2x3 said:

the answer has been the same for 20 years

Lot of truth there.  Each to their own though.   A bit of the lateral thinking can yield results.  Like maybe I could go contract elsewhere and claim the rent?  Me, I want a bigger van.  Use it, then convert it, then a road of adventure. 

Interesting to see how people react once the debt runs out and enough hit a real wall.  How far before people have a paradigm shift and what will that look like?  The old denial, anger, bargaining.....but not sure about the acceptance.  Must be about there. 

Maybe a Youtube channel given the media luvvies either don't get it or want to hide it.  How will the corporate/government/media axis of evil react in concert and individually?  Sad but interesting times.

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Hmm; the other evening made 10 servings (much of it to cool and then go into freezer) for around £10 + energy costs of oven/slow-cooker + some time to be involved in it. A lot of it comes down on

On 15/12/2017 at 12:23 PM, iamnumerate said:

Although some of the cases are sad this one

Makes you wonder why she could not move somewhere cheaper.  I know people who despite never having been to the North West have moved there because they could not afford housing in the South East - why not the same for this woman?

Makes you wonder does it?  Let me elucidate.  You don't know what this mother's disability is.   It may be extremely hard for this person to replicate what she needs to survive/get by elsewhere.    For example getting a regular supply of oxygen or a rare medication doesn't happen with a click of a pen. If you can't walk, or have poor vision  or maybe both, or are in a lot of pain upping sticks ain't all that easy.   Even just going to the NW as you suggest and looking at places to move to  might be a struggle for her.   Let alone packing, shifting furniture, finding schools, and a new medical team...  Next time you have flu, try moving to another part of the country, and see how it feels.  Some people who are disabled feel like that all the time.  My  child has a very rare condition which has taken his medical team years to diagnose.  I was told by a doctor not to move (when I wanted to) as it would take months maybe years to get the assistance and understanding my child needs - he's currently under the care of nine difference specialists - moving would have put his health at serious risk.  Disability is often complex, and in many cases a lot of pain is involved, and different specialists.   Sometimes doing the kind of things you take for granted like making a cup of tea, require adaptations, equipment.  So maybe that is why it is not the same for this woman as the people you know.   Sorry, but the people "I know"are sick of the attacks on people with disabilities in this country. 

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9 minutes ago, maybe said:

Makes you wonder does it?  Let me elucidate.  You don't know what this mother's disability is.   It may be extremely hard for this person to replicate what she needs to survive/get by elsewhere.    For example getting a regular supply of oxygen or a rare medication doesn't happen with a click of a pen. If you can't walk, or have poor vision  or maybe both, or are in a lot of pain upping sticks ain't all that easy.   Even just going to the NW as you suggest and looking at places to move to  might be a struggle for her.   Let alone packing, shifting furniture, finding schools, and a new medical team...  Next time you have flu, try moving to another part of the country, and see how it feels.  Some people who are disabled feel like that all the time.  My  child has a very rare condition which has taken his medical team years to diagnose.  I was told by a doctor not to move (when I wanted to) as it would take months maybe years to get the assistance and understanding my child needs - he's currently under the care of nine difference specialists - moving would have put his health at serious risk.  Disability is often complex, and in many cases a lot of pain is involved, and different specialists.   Sometimes doing the kind of things you take for granted like making a cup of tea, require adaptations, equipment.  So maybe that is why it is not the same for this woman as the people you know.   Sorry, but the people "I know"are sick of the attacks on people with disabilities in this country. 

I think there’s been a culture of attacks on the disabled which has gone unchecked.

And it’s part of modern Britain/ just look back at Virginia Bottomley and Her Conservative Care in the Community.

Compound this withdrawal of care by society and adding the personal hells created by social media, there’s now constant BBC surprise that there’s a Mental Health issue out there? 

We need a Massive Reset.

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I wonder how history will view this era, probably as a blip.

Looking back at economic events in the past, are they caused by disease, war or financial gluttony?

Imo society as we know it is breaking down, even young people from middle class families cannot now build a life for themselves post education. While people from very poor countries are more than willing to top up the low skilled elements of the labour force.

Quality jobs are getting  rare outside London and in London the cost of living is ridiculous.

10 years since the financial crisis, what have we learned?

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7 hours ago, maybe said:

Makes you wonder does it?  Let me elucidate.  You don't know what this mother's disability is.   It may be extremely hard for this person to replicate what she needs to survive/get by elsewhere.    For example getting a regular supply of oxygen or a rare medication doesn't happen with a click of a pen. If you can't walk, or have poor vision  or maybe both, or are in a lot of pain upping sticks ain't all that easy.   Even just going to the NW as you suggest and looking at places to move to  might be a struggle for her.   Let alone packing, shifting furniture, finding schools, and a new medical team...  Next time you have flu, try moving to another part of the country, and see how it feels.  Some people who are disabled feel like that all the time.  My  child has a very rare condition which has taken his medical team years to diagnose.  I was told by a doctor not to move (when I wanted to) as it would take months maybe years to get the assistance and understanding my child needs - he's currently under the care of nine difference specialists - moving would have put his health at serious risk.  Disability is often complex, and in many cases a lot of pain is involved, and different specialists.   Sometimes doing the kind of things you take for granted like making a cup of tea, require adaptations, equipment.  So maybe that is why it is not the same for this woman as the people you know.   Sorry, but the people "I know"are sick of the attacks on people with disabilities in this country. 

If she is a bad as you say how does she look after 4 children? I don't know what her condition is - that is the journalist's fault not mind.

 

8 hours ago, maybe said:

Sorry, but the people "I know"are sick of the attacks on people with disabilities in this country. 

Sorry but I am sick of a situation where I cannot afford to live in 70% of my home city - but people who I pay for can.  (Although if I were younger it would be 90%).

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8 hours ago, maybe said:

Makes you wonder does it?  Let me elucidate.  You don't know what this mother's disability is.   It may be extremely hard for this person to replicate what she needs to survive/get by elsewhere.    For example getting a regular supply of oxygen or a rare medication doesn't happen with a click of a pen. If you can't walk, or have poor vision  or maybe both, or are in a lot of pain upping sticks ain't all that easy.   Even just going to the NW as you suggest and looking at places to move to  might be a struggle for her.   Let alone packing, shifting furniture, finding schools, and a new medical team...  Next time you have flu, try moving to another part of the country, and see how it feels.  Some people who are disabled feel like that all the time.  My  child has a very rare condition which has taken his medical team years to diagnose.  I was told by a doctor not to move (when I wanted to) as it would take months maybe years to get the assistance and understanding my child needs - he's currently under the care of nine difference specialists - moving would have put his health at serious risk.  Disability is often complex, and in many cases a lot of pain is involved, and different specialists.   Sometimes doing the kind of things you take for granted like making a cup of tea, require adaptations, equipment.  So maybe that is why it is not the same for this woman as the people you know.   Sorry, but the people "I know"are sick of the attacks on people with disabilities in this country. 

While you are right and I sympathise for  your particular sad story. The contempt comes from cases where people know those that are taking the piss.

My much older brother in law has been on disability for twenty years - rheumatoid arthritis based and has taken great pleasure in letting me know that he pushes it for all it's worth. He and my sister live in a four bedroom house (you heard me - four!). All the kids (three) are grown up and left. They were told to downsize but they simply refused to leave and instead paid the token increase themselves. 

How? Well, apart from getting all the allowances including new car every three years (Jeez i hate that) they work for cash in hand cleaning cottages about 20 hours a week.

His mother died in the summer and left a small inheritance for him which coincided with his 'retirement' - went out a bought a motorbike and rides it around town shamelessly showing off his miraculous recovery.

What checks do the authorities do on these people so that the genuinely needy get what they need? It's almost as if it's deliberate in order to build up the contempt.

Before anyone asks, I had thought about complaining but they're family and I just couldn't bring myself to do that.

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14 minutes ago, Maynardgravy said:

What checks do the authorities do on these people so that the genuinely needy get what they need? It's almost as if it's deliberate in order to build up the contempt.

 

Actually I think it is because it is impossible to run the benefits system well on a national scale.

I think the solution is to look at doing at a local level - but for some reason Westminster politicians don't like that idea.

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3 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

Actually I think it is because it is impossible to run the benefits system well on a national scale.

I think the solution is to look at doing at a local level - but for some reason Westminster politicians don't like that idea.

Probably involves lobbying. Motability is one of the biggest scams going but rarely gets the attention it deserves. Chap at work drives a five series (pays extra on top for the privilege, but not a lot). He's suffers from a rare condition and to be fair to him, he still works, but his condition does not affect his ability to afford a car of his own and he doesn't need any modifications to drive. I asked him once how my car was doing. He didn't get it.

OT I think I'm near the end. :mellow:

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9 minutes ago, Maynardgravy said:

Probably involves lobbying. Motability is one of the biggest scams going but rarely gets the attention it deserves. Chap at work drives a five series (pays extra on top for the privilege, but not a lot). He's suffers from a rare condition and to be fair to him, he still works, but his condition does not affect his ability to afford a car of his own and he doesn't need any modifications to drive. I asked him once how my car was doing. He didn't get it.

OT I think I'm near the end. :mellow:

I think the problem is that no one is going to favour a solution that gives power to someone else.

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9 hours ago, Thorn said:

I think there’s been a culture of attacks on the disabled which has gone unchecked.

And it’s part of modern Britain/ just look back at Virginia Bottomley and Her Conservative Care in the Community.

Compound this withdrawal of care by society and adding the personal hells created by social media, there’s now constant BBC surprise that there’s a Mental Health issue out there? 

We need a Massive Reset.

Think the bar has been lowered so far as to whats classed as disabled. Hyper active kids fall into this bracket and their parents are financed for this. I say give them sweet FA and use the money on genuine cases.

My kids piano teacher has MS, works fulltime but for some reason the taxpayer reward her with a brand new VW, quite why a shiny new car is needed i don't know.

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9 hours ago, Thorn said:

I think there’s been a culture of attacks on the disabled which has gone unchecked.

And it’s part of modern Britain/ just look back at Virginia Bottomley and Her Conservative Care in the Community.

Compound this withdrawal of care by society and adding the personal hells created by social media, there’s now constant BBC surprise that there’s a Mental Health issue out there? 

We need a Massive Reset.

Yes,easier said than done.

Today it's all me, me ,me and the notion of care and compassion has been gradually squeezed out over the years. Unfortunately, in these circumstances, the only way you will get a "massive reset" is a follow on from some cataclysmic social or political, or even natural, event. 

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2 hours ago, iamnumerate said:

If she is a bad as you say how does she look after 4 children? I don't know what her condition is - that is the journalist's fault not mind.

 

Sorry but I am sick of a situation where I cannot afford to live in 70% of my home city - but people who I pay for can.  (Although if I were younger it would be 90%).

As you say, you don't know what her condition is yet you have opined that she should move.   This is how it works.  Mention disabled people in dire straits, and no one wants to know about them,  don't look at them.  Listen instead to the story of someone who says they know someone who is narking off the State, because that's the tale that will go around, the one that justifies cuts which affect hundreds of thousands of people who you don't see. And clearly millions in this country couldn't care less about.  I spend a lot of time in hospitals, and waiting rooms.  I have met so many people who are very disabled, very ill, dealing with the kind of problems which I certainly never knew existed before I had my child. And they are living with the additional stress of PIP assessments.  Around 2000-3000 people die each year while waiting for to appeal being declared Fit for Work.  The disabled are not the problem my friend. Do not allow your attention to be diverted.  Do not let the people who are really to blame for the mess this country make you look elsewhere.  The 1% are the problem.  They are the reason why your family cannot live in your home town.  

 

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8 minutes ago, maybe said:

The [disabled|immigrants|terrists|brexiters|remainers|left-wingers|right-wingers] are not the problem my friend. Do not allow your attention to be diverted.  Do not let the people who are really to blame for the mess this country make you look elsewhere.  The 1% are the problem.  They are the reason why your family cannot live in your home town.  

Couldn't agree more, although I have expanded the list of false blame targets for you.

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2 hours ago, Maynardgravy said:

While you are right and I sympathise for  your particular sad story. The contempt comes from cases where people know those that are taking the piss.

My much older brother in law has been on disability for twenty years - rheumatoid arthritis based and has taken great pleasure in letting me know that he pushes it for all it's worth. He and my sister live in a four bedroom house (you heard me - four!). All the kids (three) are grown up and left. They were told to downsize but they simply refused to leave and instead paid the token increase themselves. 

How? Well, apart from getting all the allowances including new car every three years (Jeez i hate that) they work for cash in hand cleaning cottages about 20 hours a week.

His mother died in the summer and left a small inheritance for him which coincided with his 'retirement' - went out a bought a motorbike and rides it around town shamelessly showing off his miraculous recovery.

What checks do the authorities do on these people so that the genuinely needy get what they need? It's almost as if it's deliberate in order to build up the contempt.

Before anyone asks, I had thought about complaining but they're family and I just couldn't bring myself to do that.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-42312490  Motability cars are sadly being taken away from those who need them.   There are checks alright on disabled people.  Our taxes are being paid to companies like G4S, Atos, Serco and Capita to run (down) our NHS, and welfare state.  They are a real problem.  Government awards them multi-million pound contracts even if they say, **** up the security of the Olympic Games (they had one job!)  or are found guilty of fraud, for example claiming money for prisoners in their "care" who have died, or escaped, or companies that don't pay their corporation tax (Like Atos, french firm no tax paid last year)   They get paid by results. Ie their job is to maximise profits, which is not the same as making savings for the public purse.  Interesting how many Conservative MPs directly benefit from involvement with these firms. 

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1 minute ago, maybe said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-42312490  Motability cars are sadly being taken away from those who need them.   There are checks alright on disabled people.  Our taxes are being paid to companies like G4S, Atos, Serco and Capita to run (down) our NHS, and welfare state.  They are a real problem.  Government awards them multi-million pound contracts even if they say, **** up the security of the Olympic Games (they had one job!)  or are found guilty of fraud, for example claiming money for prisoners in their "care" who have died, or escaped, or companies that don't pay their corporation tax (Like Atos, french firm no tax paid last year)   They get paid by results. Ie their job is to maximise profits, which is not the same as making savings for the public purse.  Interesting how many Conservative MPs directly benefit from involvement with these firms. 

That is sad - because IMHO it is impossible to run a system that helps only the needy and no one else on a national level.

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44 minutes ago, maybe said:

As you say, you don't know what her condition is yet you have opined that she should move.   This is how it works.  Mention disabled people in dire straits, and no one wants to know about them,  don't look at them.  Listen instead to the story of someone who says they know someone who is narking off the State, because that's the tale that will go around, the one that justifies cuts which affect hundreds of thousands of people who you don't see. And clearly millions in this country couldn't care less about.  I spend a lot of time in hospitals, and waiting rooms.  I have met so many people who are very disabled, very ill, dealing with the kind of problems which I certainly never knew existed before I had my child. And they are living with the additional stress of PIP assessments.  Around 2000-3000 people die each year while waiting for to appeal being declared Fit for Work.  The disabled are not the problem my friend. Do not allow your attention to be diverted.  Do not let the people who are really to blame for the mess this country make you look elsewhere.  The 1% are the problem.  They are the reason why your family cannot live in your home town.  

 

The problem is that as you point out from personal experience, there are many people in dire straits through the cards life has dealt them, they deserve decent help and care and a humane society would provide that (which in spite of some of your comments we do a lot better than many countries on the planet)

The issue for tax payers is there are millions on DB, Tax credits running all sorts of scams that if in the private sector would be criminal. However to deal with these is complex and you are always running  a fine line between a non deserving claimant and a genuine claimant having their lifeline cut off so the issue is avoided and fudged for fear of a Daily Mail headline.

@Maynardgravy highlights one of my favourites - How the heck do people on the motability scheme get a choice? Surely there should be three of four bands of adequate vehicles purchased in volume and distributed as required every year (also made in the UK FFS) Topping up ? Choice WTF ? The moral argument is clear I have the choice to drive a car of my choice because it is my money, your car is also provided with my money so surely I (the system) gets to choose ?

The problem of benefit abuse and a sense of entitlement is larger than you seem to realise. Total welfare spending is about 12% of GDP and a third of all government spending. I have no idea whether that is high or not, whatever it is I want it spent well and not stolen by criminal benefit abusers.

The other issue is that the left in general and a subset pressure groups for people on benefits paints everyone who claims benefit as some sort of noble person fallen on hard times - that is not the case and obviously can't be. Just like not every banker is an evil b**** or every nurse is Mother Theresa.

The effects of the 1% The majority of people could mitigate against this (life circumstances aren't always kind so not everyone can - hence genuine benefit claimants) but they choose not to PPI scandal, IO mortgages etc. Proper financial planning is alien to many people. At some point you have to take responsibility for your life.

Finally @Thorn this massive reset idea always makes me smile. Our system is imperfect yes but better than the majority of the world. Who would benefit form a massive reset ? Do you really think it would be people who don't have financial, emotional and physical strength now - let's face it unlikely isn't it ?

The system needs change no doubt but for everyone who thinks it is unfair now - there is a tax payer thoroughly P*** off with a third of his or her tax going in welfare - be careful what you wish for

 

 

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43 minutes ago, maybe said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-42312490  Motability cars are sadly being taken away from those who need them.   There are checks alright on disabled people.  Our taxes are being paid to companies like G4S, Atos, Serco and Capita to run (down) our NHS, and welfare state.  They are a real problem.  Government awards them multi-million pound contracts even if they say, **** up the security of the Olympic Games (they had one job!)  or are found guilty of fraud, for example claiming money for prisoners in their "care" who have died, or escaped, or companies that don't pay their corporation tax (Like Atos, french firm no tax paid last year)   They get paid by results. Ie their job is to maximise profits, which is not the same as making savings for the public purse.  Interesting how many Conservative MPs directly benefit from involvement with these firms. 

....worth more investigation, there is a lot of money to be made from the disadvantaged, just who is making it, how and why.;)

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1 hour ago, Greg Bowman said:

The problem is that as you point out from personal experience, there are many people in dire straits through the cards life has dealt them, they deserve decent help and care and a humane society would provide that (which in spite of some of your comments we do a lot better than many countries on the planet)

The issue for tax payers is there are millions on DB, Tax credits running all sorts of scams that if in the private sector would be criminal. However to deal with these is complex and you are always running  a fine line between a non deserving claimant and a genuine claimant having their lifeline cut off so the issue is avoided and fudged for fear of a Daily Mail headline.

@Maynardgravy highlights one of my favourites - How the heck do people on the motability scheme get a choice? Surely there should be three of four bands of adequate vehicles purchased in volume and distributed as required every year (also made in the UK FFS) Topping up ? Choice WTF ? The moral argument is clear I have the choice to drive a car of my choice because it is my money, your car is also provided with my money so surely I (the system) gets to choose ?

The problem of benefit abuse and a sense of entitlement is larger than you seem to realise. Total welfare spending is about 12% of GDP and a third of all government spending. I have no idea whether that is high or not, whatever it is I want it spent well and not stolen by criminal benefit abusers.

The other issue is that the left in general and a subset pressure groups for people on benefits paints everyone who claims benefit as some sort of noble person fallen on hard times - that is not the case and obviously can't be. Just like not every banker is an evil b**** or every nurse is Mother Theresa.

The effects of the 1% The majority of people could mitigate against this (life circumstances aren't always kind so not everyone can - hence genuine benefit claimants) but they choose not to PPI scandal, IO mortgages etc. Proper financial planning is alien to many people. At some point you have to take responsibility for your life.

Finally @Thorn this massive reset idea always makes me smile. Our system is imperfect yes but better than the majority of the world. Who would benefit form a massive reset ? Do you really think it would be people who don't have financial, emotional and physical strength now - let's face it unlikely isn't it ?

The system needs change no doubt but for everyone who thinks it is unfair now - there is a tax payer thoroughly P*** off with a third of his or her tax going in welfare - be careful what you wish for

 

 

Good point, particularly about the reset.  I still want to know why the 1% want higher prices.  How does it benefit James Dyson? (if we all lived in bigger homes surely we would need more vacuum cleaners which would be good for him?)

 

However it does benefit a pro single parent if they get a house and I cannot buy it because they get it paid for them with my taxes

Edited by iamnumerate
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3 hours ago, Greg Bowman said:

 

The issue for tax payers is there are millions on DB, Tax credits running all sorts of scams that if in the private sector would be criminal. However to deal with these is complex and you are always running  a fine line between a non deserving claimant and a genuine claimant having their lifeline cut off so the issue is avoided and fudged for fear of a Daily Mail headline.

The problem of benefit abuse and a sense of entitlement is larger than you seem to realise. Total welfare spending is about 12% of GDP and a third of all government spending. I have no idea whether that is high or not, whatever it is I want it spent well and not stolen by criminal benefit abusers.

The effects of the 1% The majority of people could mitigate against this (life circumstances aren't always kind so not everyone can - hence genuine benefit claimants) but they choose not to PPI scandal, IO mortgages etc. Proper financial planning is alien to many people. At some point you have to take responsibility for your life.

The system needs change no doubt but for everyone who thinks it is unfair now - there is a tax payer thoroughly P*** off with a third of his or her tax going in welfare - be careful what you wish for

 

 

There are so many confused arguments in your post I will try and deal with the few I have direct experience of.

I've been disabled for all of my adult life and also a taxpayer for most of it. You don't talk for all "tax payers". It's an issue for me that having paid taxes for all these decades that when I do need help I cannot get the benefits and financial and health care that I supposedly paid into.

Also as a taxpayer I resent landlords mortgage payments and expenses being taxed favorably. Although that is changing it's too little and too later

Also resent benefits being paid to rich older people who own property and what little care my council offers going once again to older people with property. I had to move home at the whim of a landlord recently and that complicated getting treatment for cancer.

Resent that there is a ceiling level on cash holdings for some benefits and not property meaning that my savings for a potential deposit for a home are taken into consideration but not the property-rich. 

Resent that the Government can change the criteria for being particular benefits leaving me at times unable to work and yet not considered "disabled" enough or suddenly not meeting criteria.

How exactly do we "mitigate" against life events around serious sickness and disability when it's out of the reach of many of us? My own group of people with neurological disease has people denied private benefits that they paid into or fights of up to 6 years to get access to these private benefits. How are they supposed to survive until then. They may not even be "lucky enough" to get a condition that is covered.

There was little in the way of private insurance when I was a teenager. I've lived off my savings from paid work but I was lucky enough to get well paid when I could. Not everyone gets this lucky. 

Yes, I have a "sense of entitlement". I started work in my teens, worked through uni, paid taxes and then worked for decades when I was physically able to. Lived off my savings instead of claiming a benefit. Yet when I applied I was treated with contempt and dishonesty. 

You claim that benefit abuse is part of your sentence on " ..... larger than you realise" yet you have no figures on actual fraud or considered on how much money the govt is spending on fraud detection, if it works and how to do this fairly.

You are lucky that you have an income and steady work and health.

 

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  • 433 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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