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The Death of London

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London is already minority white. Some areas have 85% + ethnic/immigrant populations. Unless there is an adult discussion about this I just see things getting worse.

Most white people will eventually leave, of course, apart from a few ultra-rich ghettoised areas.

Edited by Errol

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Imo this is nothing to do with an individuals place of birth......there are dysfunctional and desperate people from all places, born to all types of parents, lack of education and life opportunities, including those born and bred...the world is full of people who do what they must to survive and improve on their lot, they will travel where they can to get what they can, if they can...... Britain is a very tolerant place to be and has in the past been very generous to all people.....human nature is that people will congregate amoungst people they see as similar to themselves, some will integrate well others will not....when inequality is growing, growing numbers from all places are in competition for the same resources......when our leaders keep saying there is no money left in the pot, more people will feel they will have to fight harder for the same needs, less social mobility, opportunities to improve on life chances......who do they blame? the people or the system that orchestrated it?;)

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53 minutes ago, Ah-so said:

I do not live in a very smart area and the local school are filled with children from all over the world - the 2-form primary school near my house that doubles as a polling booth, has children from over 50 nations. Pupil premium is very high and a very small number are from a "white British" background. Typical London!

But I am aware of what the school's issues are - language is one in particular - but the under-performing pupils are actually from the white British group, including in...wait for it...English language. "White British" in this context would sometimes less politely be referred to as "chavs".

However, you point out in your subsequent post that crime data shows a lot of East European involvement, and if that is what it shows, then it is hard to argue with. However, is the data being skewed by small criminal gangs? Romanian gypsies may run pick-pocket and begging gangs for example, but the only stuff I could find on this is in the Express and Mail, so more sensational than data-led.

So I did my own research.

This link shows that at the end of 2016, there were 917 Poles in British prisons, out of a population of 86,000, so approximately 1%. There were 911,000 Poles in the UK, so per head of population are less likely to be in prison than the wider population. There were 654 Romanians in prison, out of a recorded population of 101,000, so about 6 times more likely to be in prison than a Pole.

Interesting link, it is noticeable that there are about the same number of Indians and Somalians in prison - despite there being a lot more Indians in the UK.

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8 minutes ago, Errol said:

London is already minority white. Some areas have 85% + ethnic/immigrant populations. Unless there is an adult discussion about this I just see things getting worse.

Most white people will eventually leave, of course, apart from a few ultra-rich ghettoised areas.

Not sure about that. If anything, the latest trend has been for more white immigration from Eastern Europe. The big non-white immigration waves happened in the post-war years. This whole discussion seems to be focusing on race and ignoring class. The latter is a far more important factor that determines outcomes such as educational attainment and levels of integration, and it cuts across racial lines.

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7 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

Interesting link, it is noticeable that there are about the same number of Indians and Somalians in prison - despite there being a lot more Indians in the UK.

That doesn't surprise me at all. Will often say a lot about the education levels of those who have entered and the age range, given that younger people tend to commit more crime. 

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7 minutes ago, TheGreatestFool said:

Not sure about that. If anything, the latest trend has been for more white immigration from Eastern Europe. The big non-white immigration waves happened in the post-war years. This whole discussion seems to be focusing on race and ignoring class. The latter is a far more important factor that determines outcomes such as educational attainment and levels of integration, and it cuts across racial lines.

Yes, possibly there's been a change recently but as far back as 2011, London was only 44% white according to the census. Worryingly, in 2001 London was 58% white so the change is happening very rapidly.

This article from 2016 - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2950401/How-one-three-Londoners-born-abroad-areas-live-in.html - confirms the percentage and goes into more detail about the different nationalities in London.

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20 minutes ago, winkie said:

Imo this is nothing to do with an individuals place of birth......there are dysfunctional and desperate people from all places, born to all types of parents, lack of education and life opportunities, including those born and bred...the world is full of people who do what they must to survive and improve on their lot, they will travel where they can to get what they can, if they can...... Britain is a very tolerant place to be and has in the past been very generous to all people.....human nature is that people will congregate amoungst people they see as similar to themselves, some will integrate well others will not....when inequality is growing, growing numbers from all places are in competition for the same resources......when our leaders keep saying there is no money left in the pot, more people will feel they will have to fight harder for the same needs, less social mobility, opportunities to improve on life chances......who do they blame? the people or the system that orchestrated it?;)

+1

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1 hour ago, Ah-so said:

I do not live in a very smart area and the local school are filled with children from all over the world - the 2-form primary school near my house that doubles as a polling booth, has children from over 50 nations. Pupil premium is very high and a very small number are from a "white British" background. Typical London!

But I am aware of what the school's issues are - language is one in particular - but the under-performing pupils are actually from the white British group, including in...wait for it...English language. "White British" in this context would sometimes less politely be referred to as "chavs".

However, you point out in your subsequent post that crime data shows a lot of East European involvement, and if that is what it shows, then it is hard to argue with. However, is the data being skewed by small criminal gangs? Romanian gypsies may run pick-pocket and begging gangs for example, but the only stuff I could find on this is in the Express and Mail, so more sensational than data-led.

So I did my own research.

This link shows that at the end of 2016, there were 917 Poles in British prisons, out of a population of 86,000, so approximately 1%. There were 911,000 Poles in the UK, so per head of population are less likely to be in prison than the wider population. There were 654 Romanians in prison, out of a recorded population of 101,000, so about 6 times more likely to be in prison than a Pole.

12 minutes ago, TheGreatestFool said:

Not sure about that. If anything, the latest trend has been for more white immigration from Eastern Europe. The big non-white immigration waves happened in the post-war years. This whole discussion seems to be focusing on race and ignoring class. The latter is a far more important factor that determines outcomes such as educational attainment and levels of integration, and it cuts across racial lines.

+1

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17 minutes ago, TheGreatestFool said:

Not sure about that. If anything, the latest trend has been for more white immigration from Eastern Europe. The big non-white immigration waves happened in the post-war years. This whole discussion seems to be focusing on race and ignoring class. The latter is a far more important factor that determines outcomes such as educational attainment and levels of integration, and it cuts across racial lines.

 

In London that is not really the case. Yes, there was the post-war immigration in the 60s and 70s, but I think that had been overtaken by subsequent immigration from the Indian sub-continent. For example,  until recently the ability to cook north Indian cuisine was a valid reason to get a work visa which meant that pretty much the entire population of Bangladesh was able to apply for one if they wanted. 

There are about half a million Bangladeshis in the UK, with half living in Tower Hamlets and many have arrived in the last 20 years a stroll around East London would show. 

There has also been a degree of immigration from all other nations from around the world, including sub -Saharan Africa.

But I recognise that immigration from within the EU had been massive since 2003 from a very low Base. 

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31 minutes ago, TheGreatestFool said:

The big non-white immigration waves happened in the post-war years.

Three quarters of mothers in Newham were born abroad. Vast majority from the Indian sub-continent and Nigeria and Somalia.

Massive influx of Bangladeshis, Pakistanis, Somalis, etc into the East End in recent years and still going on.

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3 minutes ago, Oliver Sutton said:

Massive influx of Bangladeshis, Pakistanis, Somalis, etc into the East End in recent years and still going on.

Indeed. And I find it very hard to believe that anything more than a small percentage of these add anything to the finances of the country. I would bet that the vast majority subtract more wealth from the nation than they ever add.

So the immigration policy really seems to be akin to suicide.

Edited by Errol

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12 hours ago, Debbiebegood said:

As we all know, the insane house prices are caused by cheap credit available on liar loan applications

Correct but another essential ingredient for HPI is scarcity and competitive bidding, without this no mechanism exists for inflation regardless of credit conditions and therefore the demand and scarcity created by mass immigration (coupled with deliberately restricted supply) is fundamental to our woes.

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On 27/11/2017 at 7:45 PM, longgone said:

slightly off topic but i have booked 2 nights in a central london travelodge christmas week for less than £30 a night ;). my calculations say that is 900pcm on average surely that is better value than renting considering it is W1 no council tax no bills no making your own bed and cleaning is included.  could be a new Airbnb.

anyone know of someone living longterm in hotels ?

 

Ooh, do you get brekkie?

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On 28/11/2017 at 12:36 AM, UnconventionalWisdom said:

This weekend I will attend a leaving do for a mate of mine who is a GP. He's lived in London for a few years and has given up as it's too expensive and there's no long-term prospects. He tried renting a flat on his own for a year but was skint because of the large rent. Shared for a few years but has made him depressed. It's an insane situation when people needed by society are shunted. I also knew a surgeon who had to live in a HMO. If things continue as they are we'll have problems employing teachers, doctors or police in the capital. 

Given how things are, I bet we are already having real problems hanging on to people we need, but it's best not looked into or explored because then they don't have to do anything about it. Even old-school shared ownership - by housing associations, for key workers, which has been going on at least as long as I've lived here, suggests housing has made keeping people here difficult. I think it used to be teachers and social-workers, though, GPs and surgeons? Definitely an escalation.

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22 hours ago, Debbiebegood said:

Please stop blaming immigrants for the terrible mess created by the natives.

Seconded, quite right, it's ridiculous, we mustn't scrabble around fighting amongst ourselves, we need to turn around and look up.

I don't respond to xenophobic posts on here any more but I love it when other people have the heart to do it, nice one.

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7 hours ago, winkie said:

Imo this is nothing to do with an individuals place of birth......there are dysfunctional and desperate people from all places, born to all types of parents, lack of education and life opportunities, including those born and bred...the world is full of people who do what they must to survive and improve on their lot, they will travel where they can to get what they can, if they can...... Britain is a very tolerant place to be and has in the past been very generous to all people.....human nature is that people will congregate amoungst people they see as similar to themselves, some will integrate well others will not....when inequality is growing, growing numbers from all places are in competition for the same resources......when our leaders keep saying there is no money left in the pot, more people will feel they will have to fight harder for the same needs, less social mobility, opportunities to improve on life chances......who do they blame? the people or the system that orchestrated it?;)

+1, go The Winkster.

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7 hours ago, Oliver Sutton said:

Three quarters of mothers in Newham were born abroad. Vast majority from the Indian sub-continent and Nigeria and Somalia.

Massive influx of Bangladeshis, Pakistanis, Somalis, etc into the East End in recent years and still going on.

NW london too. Harrow's becoming Burkatown. Completely alien culture, depressing. Cannot wait to leave, won't be long.

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1 hour ago, Maynardgravy said:

NW london too. Harrow's becoming Burkatown. Completely alien culture, depressing. Cannot wait to leave, won't be long.

Where are you going? Nairobi?

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9 hours ago, Errol said:

Indeed. And I find it very hard to believe that anything more than a small percentage of these add anything to the finances of the country. I would bet that the vast majority subtract more wealth from the nation than they ever add.

They used to become curry chefs according to the wonderful example of Peak Guardian 

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/22/curry-restaurants-crisis-immigration-rules-chefs

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14 hours ago, Ah-so said:

I do not live in a very smart area and the local school are filled with children from all over the world - the 2-form primary school near my house that doubles as a polling booth, has children from over 50 nations. Pupil premium is very high and a very small number are from a "white British" background. Typical London!

But I am aware of what the school's issues are - language is one in particular - but the under-performing pupils are actually from the white British group, including in...wait for it...English language. "White British" in this context would sometimes less politely be referred to as "chavs".

However, you point out in your subsequent post that crime data shows a lot of East European involvement, and if that is what it shows, then it is hard to argue with. However, is the data being skewed by small criminal gangs? Romanian gypsies may run pick-pocket and begging gangs for example, but the only stuff I could find on this is in the Express and Mail, so more sensational than data-led.

So I did my own research.

This link shows that at the end of 2016, there were 917 Poles in British prisons, out of a population of 86,000, so approximately 1%. There were 911,000 Poles in the UK, so per head of population are less likely to be in prison than the wider population. There were 654 Romanians in prison, out of a recorded population of 101,000, so about 6 times more likely to be in prison than a Pole.

Sorry but your comment about chavs simply shows you suffer from a different form of prejudice without even realising it like so many people of all creeds and colours in the UK who so readily, routinely and implicitly buy into the rotten British class system.

https://scholar.princeton.edu/smoullin/blog/movement

The social mobility survey suggests that London is not necessarily representative of the UK and that what you think is positive there is not reflected elsewhere. Given that London gets on average more than a £1000 per head money spent on the average pupil  than the rest of the UK one would be surprised if they did not achieve moreMoreover, one suspects the British class system will eventually absorb all immigrant communites and that many of them in a couple of generations may be as trapped as the lowliest member of the indigeneous white working class are now.

https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/nov/28/social-mobility-stark-postcode-lottery-too-many-britain-left-behind-alan-milburn-commission-report

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/small-towns-the-worst-places-in-britain-for-social-mobility-new-state-of-the-nation-report-finds-child-life-chances-milburn_uk_5a1c99d7e4b071403b288499

Sometime when I hear Londoners chuntering on about their city I feel like taking them to some of the more bombed out areas of the UK and echoing the comments of a Soviet soldier to a captured German in Stalingrad who pointed to the ruins of the city and said 'that is how your Capital is going to look in a couple of years'.

The high cost of housing is goingn to be London's nemesis

Edited by stormymonday_2011

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1 hour ago, sPinwheel said:

Where are you going? Nairobi?

?

Not decided yet - I have half a mil in my back pocket. one thing is for sure, I ain't buying a shitty semi in NW London, next to a family of 7 on HB.

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4 hours ago, North London Rent Girl said:

Given how things are, I bet we are already having real problems hanging on to people we need, but it's best not looked into or explored because then they don't have to do anything about it. Even old-school shared ownership - by housing associations, for key workers, which has been going on at least as long as I've lived here, suggests housing has made keeping people here difficult. I think it used to be teachers and social-workers, though, GPs and surgeons? Definitely an escalation.

My Cousin is a Senior Planner at one of the inner London Council high development areas and they can't get staff because people are hitting mid thirties, starting families and saying fook this and moving out to the sticks or up north. In her case she is fine as Daddy paid a substantial sum towards her two bedder in Enfield. Basically in London even earners on 50K plus are fooked unless they have a big trust fund or lottery win.

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51 minutes ago, Kurt Barlow said:

I think it used to be teachers and social-workers, though, GPs and surgeons? Definitely an escalation.

I was visiting a friend in hospital this week, Romford Essex, and got into a conversation with one of the nurses.

She is 41 and has been married to a lorry driver for many years, they have one son who is 21. She quoted that they were paying £1,400 a month rent in Essex.

Her husband has just inherited £90,000 , at a push they could use this as a deposit take a big mortgage and buy in Essex. However her husbands firm has a depot in the North. So next year he is getting a transfer she will have  no trouble getting a job nursing up there and they will go north.

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  • 395 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
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      • up 5%



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