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The Death of London

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5 hours ago, winkie said:

Why you can still work in London without actually being in London......you can work in the UK from all over the world.......could the brexit elephant in the room be deregulation, anything goes when the whistle blows who knows....safety not sorry.;)

The uptake of remote working is ridiculous in this country, i remoted into the work pc with dial up 20 years ago FFS.  

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4 hours ago, iamnumerate said:

Although London is I think probably the best place for men to meet women (of course for the reverse it is probably the worst)  This is from personal experience and looking at my female and male single friends.

Exotic selection then yes and no doubt you can order a escort from every corner of the earth if so inclined a la deliveroo.

Maybe tinder has changed things by from my experience in the early 2000's London is just not in the same league for pulling as places like Liverpool/Newcastle where the locals are more friendly.

Coming from Norfolk and uni in London the wonderful surprise of strangers striking up conversations was a revelation at the time.  

I found London to be a very cold and strangely lonely place maybe there are some nice village type areas that I never discovered within it as opposed to hitting the west end.
 

Edited by Fromage Frais

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  I started a threat in Sept on this subject - "End of the urban revival"...(I don't know how to link another thread?)

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/01/opinion/cities-suburbs-housing-crime.html?mcubz=1

From stateside but relevant to London...flagging enthusiasm for the city...tide turning?  Falling prices in London support this position.  In summary...

"The end of the urban re vival  Writing in the New York Times, eminent urbanist Richard Florida points to the end of the ur ban revival upon which he based his 2002 work ‘The Rise of the Creative Class’, and which dominates most lazy, mod ern think ing about Mill ennials and what they want.   Florida cites rising house prices, rising crime and a widen ing wealth gap between established occupants and new comers as driving the reversal of migration into city centres. However, funda mentally, Florida also acknowledges that most people in fact want to live in ‘detached suburban homes’ and these simply don’t exist (either in fact, or at sensible prices) in the world’s major city centres. The facts are undeniable, but there are no easy sol utions. With lengthy and un reliable commutes also becoming un palatable, does this present opp ortunities for mid-sized towns and emerging suburban centres to re capture young talent? "

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22 hours ago, iamnumerate said:

As a commuter, I find it hard to believe that there are less passengers.

The fall is miminal but real (I work in the rail industry). In reality this probably means the person behind you on the Tube has their **** wedged in your **** crack with a little more space to spare.

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13 hours ago, dances with sheeple said:

The main people you were meeting back then were Aussie piss-heads, but probably cheaper than a flat share as you say.

I don't think much has changed to be honest. Probably a few less Aussies after Teresa May's crackdown on immigrants, which made it a lot harder for them to renew their visa's past the initial two years.

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3 hours ago, Fromage Frais said:

I found London to be a very cold and strangely lonely place maybe there are some nice village type areas that I never discovered within it as opposed to hitting the west end.
 

Yes it can be and yes there are.  I live in a 'village type area' with a common, woodland & wildlife all 5-10mins walk away. Farmland 4 miles away.  35 mins from front door to my desk near London Bridge.  I can always park outside the flat and the road is only busy at rush hour.  What noise there is is kept at bay by traditional construction & good quality double glazing.

It has been a stressful, expensive 3 year process to get to this point, but things are good now.  I have a few London friends and a few friends who like to come in.

The West End will tell you nothing useful about London Life.

It is still possible to get established in London, but feckin' hard work.  I totally understand why a lot give up.  Rents are easing and hopefully we will see a major correction in 2018 which will help the right kind of incomers who work for a living, don't look for handouts and take London as it is.

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6 hours ago, spyguy said:

Ah but bear in mind that the people in London have changed a lot of the last 20 years.

Youve gone from mainly Brits moving their to work, to, lets be honest, 3rd worlders going their to live on benefits.

The increase in London's population has come at great expense to the UK tax payer. I expect this to reverse, rapidly.

"3rd worlders going their to live on benefits" or should it be "3rd worlders going there to live on benefits" ?

Where did you get these figures from?

Anyhow, the large majority of immigrants surely know the difference between "their" and "there" or otherwise they would not have been able to find their way to the UK

from "over there"... somewhere in the 3rd world.

About benefits...

Let's start with banksters who have been given licence to invent the new money and guaranteed bailouts (Quantitative Easing,Special Liquidity scheme,Funding for lending,..) by the corrupt Governments and parties,

Then all corrupt /incompetent Councils, Governments and all other public service officials/managers and their managers/chief executives,

Then building firms (Government advertises their new builds, finds them the house buyer, guarantees that the  house buyer's liar loan will be repaid, and other numerous illegal schemes

to prop up vested interests in the building and banking industry),

BTLeters whose liar loans on ridiculously low interest rates (.and ridiculously small down payments were approved and guaranteed by the UK taxpayer (regardless of their immigration status)

(Even an idiotic bankster or a politician would not lend their own money under such ridiculous terms, but they would gladly give out our monies)

Big companies and rich people not paying UK taxes,..

All the above are benefits and they are HUGE benefits.

(Not to mention that all the above corrupt officials have an absolute immunity from prosecution. That is the great benefit.)

Surely, the UK's dire economic (and other) problems and the financial crisis did not happen because  benefits were paid to the UK unemployed or "3rd worlders" or Europeans.

Also, the UK's above problems cannot be blamed on Europe (even though they are also governed by corrupt officials and banksters).

Daily mail is the great read.

Every day you will find at least 2 instances that confirm the above facts about the UK system.

Bearing in mind that the Tories are in power and if the Daily Mail says that we live in the system full of corruption, idiocracy and fraud, then I rest my case.

"Positive money" have an excellent website. 

"3rd worlders" have nothing to do with all the above and neither the Europeans.

Please stop blaming immigrants for the terrible mess created by the natives.

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People from the 2nd and 3rd world nations are not the root cause, but are a double edged sword, with millions of people moving into the country, working on tax credits, used as blunt tool to downgrade the job market and overcrowding the infrastructure being an awfully unstable structure.

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43 minutes ago, Debbiebegood said:

"3rd worlders going their to live on benefits" or should it be "3rd worlders going there to live on benefits" ?

Where did you get these figures from?

Anyhow, the large majority of immigrants surely know the difference between "their" and "there" or otherwise they would not have been able to find their way to the UK

from "over there"... somewhere in the 3rd world.

About benefits...

Let's start with banksters who have been given licence to invent the new money and guaranteed bailouts (Quantitative Easing,Special Liquidity scheme,Funding for lending,..) by the corrupt Governments and parties,

Then all corrupt /incompetent Councils, Governments and all other public service officials/managers and their managers/chief executives,

Then building firms (Government advertises their new builds, finds them the house buyer, guarantees that the  house buyer's liar loan will be repaid, and other numerous illegal schemes

to prop up vested interests in the building and banking industry),

BTLeters whose liar loans on ridiculously low interest rates (.and ridiculously small down payments were approved and guaranteed by the UK taxpayer (regardless of their immigration status)

(Even an idiotic bankster or a politician would not lend their own money under such ridiculous terms, but they would gladly give out our monies)

Big companies and rich people not paying UK taxes,..

All the above are benefits and they are HUGE benefits.

(Not to mention that all the above corrupt officials have an absolute immunity from prosecution. That is the great benefit.)

Surely, the UK's dire economic (and other) problems and the financial crisis did not happen because  benefits were paid to the UK unemployed or "3rd worlders" or Europeans.

Also, the UK's above problems cannot be blamed on Europe (even though they are also governed by corrupt officials and banksters).

Daily mail is the great read.

Every day you will find at least 2 instances that confirm the above facts about the UK system.

Bearing in mind that the Tories are in power and if the Daily Mail says that we live in the system full of corruption, idiocracy and fraud, then I rest my case.

"Positive money" have an excellent website. 

"3rd worlders" have nothing to do with all the above and neither the Europeans.

Please stop blaming immigrants for the terrible mess created by the natives.

Lets use a recent example - Greenfell house.

How many uk nationals were recorded living there?

Why did it have so many people from all tound the eorld living in social housing in one of the worlds most expensive boroughs?

Its benefit sinks - banks, roma, bangladeshi.

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48 minutes ago, Debbiebegood said:

Where did you get these figures from?

 

He has no idea what he's talking about, lives in the countryside a hundred miles away.

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1 hour ago, Debbiebegood said:

Please stop blaming immigrants for the terrible mess created by the natives.

Do you think this website would exist if net immigration had been zero over last ten or fifteen years...? I think not.

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18 minutes ago, Wayward said:

Do you think this website would exist if net immigration had been zero over last ten or fifteen years...? I think not.

Ten years ago, 2007. House prices were silly expensive even back then....

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2 hours ago, Debbiebegood said:

"3rd worlders going their to live on benefits" or should it be "3rd worlders going there to live on benefits" ?

Where did you get these figures from?

Anyhow, the large majority of immigrants surely know the difference between "their" and "there" or otherwise they would not have been able to find their way to the UK

from "over there"... somewhere in the 3rd world.

About benefits...

Let's start with banksters who have been given licence to invent the new money and guaranteed bailouts (Quantitative Easing,Special Liquidity scheme,Funding for lending,..) by the corrupt Governments and parties,

Then all corrupt /incompetent Councils, Governments and all other public service officials/managers and their managers/chief executives,

Then building firms (Government advertises their new builds, finds them the house buyer, guarantees that the  house buyer's liar loan will be repaid, and other numerous illegal schemes

to prop up vested interests in the building and banking industry),

BTLeters whose liar loans on ridiculously low interest rates (.and ridiculously small down payments were approved and guaranteed by the UK taxpayer (regardless of their immigration status)

(Even an idiotic bankster or a politician would not lend their own money under such ridiculous terms, but they would gladly give out our monies)

Big companies and rich people not paying UK taxes,..

All the above are benefits and they are HUGE benefits.

(Not to mention that all the above corrupt officials have an absolute immunity from prosecution. That is the great benefit.)

Surely, the UK's dire economic (and other) problems and the financial crisis did not happen because  benefits were paid to the UK unemployed or "3rd worlders" or Europeans.

Also, the UK's above problems cannot be blamed on Europe (even though they are also governed by corrupt officials and banksters).

Daily mail is the great read.

Every day you will find at least 2 instances that confirm the above facts about the UK system.

Bearing in mind that the Tories are in power and if the Daily Mail says that we live in the system full of corruption, idiocracy and fraud, then I rest my case.

"Positive money" have an excellent website. 

"3rd worlders" have nothing to do with all the above and neither the Europeans.

Please stop blaming immigrants for the terrible mess created by the natives.

FFS Newbie I am 50% Eastern European, My mates are Turks/Greeks/Cypriots all North Londoners. Our part of London has changed beyond recognition. A race to the bottom with the dregs of our societies coming here in their hundreds of thousands, unambitious, uneducated, scum and in the case of Eastern Europeans damm right violent we  Lits are 6th in the league table pretty good for a little country our neighbours ten times the size Poland are 1st, Romania in with a shot at 4.

Our forefathers left their countries to escape these people and now despite our warnings, native born ,middle class intellectuals, country dwelling cretins have built this multi cultural hell for the the people they consider scum - their own fellow citizens

I don't blame the uneducated underclass from Central Europe - why wouldn't you come ? but to say they aren't part of the problem is just plain stupid

 

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2 hours ago, spyguy said:

Lets use a recent example - Greenfell house.

How many uk nationals were recorded living there?

Why did it have so many people from all tound the eorld living in social housing in one of the worlds most expensive boroughs?

Its benefit sinks - banks, roma, bangladeshi.

Greenfell Tower is a perfect symbol of how thoroughly unsound and combustible the socio-economic model that's developed in UK since the Blair years.

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2 hours ago, Wayward said:

Do you think this website would exist if net immigration had been zero over last ten or fifteen years...? I think not.

System always creates the problem and then offers you the solution.

The system knows that different groups will not speak with the same voice.

Hence, the system dilutes the native population with immigration thus creating the friction in order to control everyone more easily.

Hence Brexit, etc.

Then again, the system and its mates got (for peanuts) everything what was good (natural resources, etc.)  from those countries.

Whatever they could not get, they conspired to destroy and destabilise.

As the consequence of all the above, there is friction and animosity between natives and immigrants.

(That scenario is happening also in Europe and other countries.)

It is super rich against middle classes (if any was left) and poor people.

Instead of squabbling, we should unite against super rich who got rich by destroying all of us (from employment rights to wages, etc.)

 

With or without immigration, the vested interests (around the world including the UK) have decided to inflate the house prices (and invent on daily basis other excuses to suck out wealth from the population)  in order for population to become obedient debt slaves together with their children and grandchildren regardless of their country of origin. 

As we all know, the insane house prices are caused by cheap credit available on liar loan applications.

House prices been inflated by various governments and banksters who proclaimed that it is in the national interest to inflate house prices.

System plays divide and rule all the time in order to control their debt slaves.

Please do not fall for it.

 

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1 hour ago, Greg Bowman said:

FFS Newbie I am 50% Eastern European, My mates are Turks/Greeks/Cypriots all North Londoners. Our part of London has changed beyond recognition. A race to the bottom with the dregs of our societies coming here in their hundreds of thousands, unambitious, uneducated, scum and in the case of Eastern Europeans damm right violent we  Lits are 6th in the league table pretty good for a little country our neighbours ten times the size Poland are 1st, Romania in with a shot at 4.

Our forefathers left their countries to escape these people and now despite our warnings, native born ,middle class intellectuals, country dwelling cretins have built this multi cultural hell for the the people they consider scum - their own fellow citizens

I don't blame the uneducated underclass from Central Europe - why wouldn't you come ? but to say they aren't part of the problem is just plain stupid

 

My anecdotal evidence is quite the opposite to your anecdotal evidence. Professionally I have worked with people from all over eastern Europe and they are all great people. I also know them as parents from school, builders, cafe workers, waiters and all other types and have never had problems or would consider them "scum". 

The population that is in your area may be very different to the ones that I come into contact with, and some of the beggar / pickpocket gangs are pretty unpleasant, but they are hardly representative. 

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3 hours ago, spyguy said:

Lets use a recent example - Greenfell house.

How many uk nationals were recorded living there?

Why did it have so many people from all tound the eorld living in social housing in one of the worlds most expensive boroughs?

Its benefit sinks - banks, roma, bangladeshi.

Maybe they fulfilled the conditions better than natives.

Maybe natives did not apply because they did not want to get stigmatised.

(Natives mostly look down on Council tenants. Immigrants do not.)

Maybe there is the system's policy to dilute the population. (I do believe that that is the case.)

Maybe it is the combination of all above 3.

 

Regardless, many people in Greenfell tower were working and studying. (If we can trust the media at least in that detail).

Anyhow, huge majority of those "banks, roma, bangladeshi" were surely not spending their money on drugs, alcohol and drunken fights in clubs and pubs.

They were not peeing on war memorials as the natives often do.

They do not create the nuisance of themselves on stag nights (and on stag flights) as natives do.

If someone is nice, pleasant and useful to the society I do not care about their nationality/country of origin.

 

Anyway, how many natives are on benefits ?

What skills do those unemployed natives have ?

It is often peddled that immigrants dilute salaries and take jobs from unemployed natives.

Partly might be true, but then again from my own experience it is only natives who accept to go to teach English in Dubai as qualified teachers for measly £1,500 per month just in order to pretend/boast to their mates that they are in - Dubai enjoying high level international lifestyle.

It is UK Parliament who voted a few years ago to reduce the employment rights to the minimum (actually they are non-existent).

It was NOT Europe or immigrants who voted for that and "other measures to ensure that the workforce is flexible".

It was NOT Europe or immigrants who voted for "Green belt" and for criminal/insane housing density in London ( they build on roundabouts and next to train platforms) and other places.

 

Also, the UK system blacklists people (both natives and immigrants) who make even the slightest complaint against the school (where their child is the pupil) , or their employer, or any other public body.

Considering that they created a huge number of blacklisted workforce, the system has to import immigration.

That way, they get fresh new debt slaves + they also create friction and division within the society hence no united voice against the system's corruption.

Kill 2 flies with one hit.

Please do not fog your vision (of the hell we are in) with animosity against immigrants.

 

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Debbiebegood said:

(Natives mostly look down on Council tenants. Immigrants do not.)

I don't think that is the case at all. Granted in days gone by when people had the choice of buying or renting from the council there was some snobbery from those who had bought and reverse snobbery from those that were council tenants. But I know the relatives in my family who bought did not look down on other relatives who did not buy. 

Today a Council flat especially in an area where Greenfell is located (a fixed secure tenancy and reasonable rent) compared to massive debt if you can afford to buy or high rent in the private sector, a council tenant is looked on by many as someone who has found gold dust. If people did not want council tenancies why would they put their names on waiting lists that in some London boroughs are twenty and thirty years long. 

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5 hours ago, Ah-so said:

My anecdotal evidence is quite the opposite to your anecdotal evidence. Professionally I have worked with people from all over eastern Europe and they are all great people. I also know them as parents from school, builders, cafe workers, waiters and all other types and have never had problems or would consider them "scum". 

Yes, but you work in banking right?

My experience in banking is very much of meeting wonderful and interesting immigrants - my Indian drinking buddy with an MBA, my Italian colleague with a penchant for classic motorcycles, my Chinese friend with a first from the LSE who loves ballet, the young Polish accountant I worked with who I suspect had an IQ that would shame most competitive chess players, the Nigerian project manager with a radiant smile a wicked sense of humour and great management skills etc... etc... I would happily live amongst all of them as most of them are in fact far more interesting and likeable than a lot of our English peers. All earning lots of money and paying lots of taxes, those magic GDP++ immigrants the BBC tell us about.

Then you have the immigrants staffing the shops and bars we frequent. Bright, sunny, articulate people you sense might be going somewhere in life.  

Living and working solely amongst these admirable people, it would be very hard not to be a fully paid up member of the "bright multicultural future" club. I certainly used to be.

I'm not remotely racist. If we have a million jobs that need doing and nobody to do them then the last thing I care about is what colour the people we invite here to do them are - what I do care about is how well they fit in, how alligned their values and expectations are to mine, how hard they are going to work. 

But if that time truly comes in future, the immigrants we will need are high skill educated ones - and for every one of those, there are 5 more that are not. They are everywhere in London - quite literally everywhere. I've been the only Englishman on a full bus in zone 2/3 several times after 8pm.

The only way we will ever be able to respond to automation and low-skill redundancy effectively is by managing our population carefully and stop using immigration to drive GDP whilst productivity stalls. We need to completely halt low skill migration. At the moment the right wing tabloids would be able to kill something like universal citizens income stone dead with a few Machiavellian articles on the joy felt at the prospect by a Cameroonian student or a Pakistani uber driver with 6 kids each, and they wouldn't have to look at all hard to find them in London.

These aren't 'bad people' - they are doing the best for their families, they are no better or worse than the natives in the main.

The problem is, automation is going to further decimate low and semi skilled work. Delivering stuff, driving trains and buses and lorries, even a lot more jobs pushing paper around ultimately have a limited shelf life. Unless we intend to allow the 1% to get away with what appears to be their dystopian Victorianesque nightmare vision of a rentier/servant future for 90% of us, we need to wake up, toughen up, and look after our own best interests as a society.

Edited by disenfranchised

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8 hours ago, Ah-so said:

My anecdotal evidence is quite the opposite to your anecdotal evidence. Professionally I have worked with people from all over eastern Europe and they are all great people. I also know them as parents from school, builders, cafe workers, waiters and all other types and have never had problems or would consider them "scum". 

The population that is in your area may be very different to the ones that I come into contact with, and some of the beggar / pickpocket gangs are pretty unpleasant, but they are hardly representative. 

Depends what you do and where you live. If you are socialising with people who work then your experience will differ from dealing with people who dont work.

My partners school 4-7 now has ~30% of migrants in the  classes - 40 kids. When she started, 4 yeas ago, there was 1.

None work - all are on pupil premium. 60% of the parents cannot speak English, which is causing massive problems. These people should not be in the UK.

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I should add that a one her coworkers hubby is the copper who doe he crime stats. EE are the significant factor in the massive rise in violent crime. Real nuts stuff.

Police have gone from dealing with the usual pint and fight stuff to dealing with attempted murder, murder suicide, huge icnrease in knife crime and dealign with dead bodies that get dumped around he county.

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1 hour ago, spyguy said:

Depends what you do and where you live. If you are socialising with people who work then your experience will differ from dealing with people who dont work.

My partners school 4-7 now has ~30% of migrants in the  classes - 40 kids. When she started, 4 yeas ago, there was 1.

None work - all are on pupil premium. 60% of the parents cannot speak English, which is causing massive problems. These people should not be in the UK.

I do not live in a very smart area and the local school are filled with children from all over the world - the 2-form primary school near my house that doubles as a polling booth, has children from over 50 nations. Pupil premium is very high and a very small number are from a "white British" background. Typical London!

But I am aware of what the school's issues are - language is one in particular - but the under-performing pupils are actually from the white British group, including in...wait for it...English language. "White British" in this context would sometimes less politely be referred to as "chavs".

However, you point out in your subsequent post that crime data shows a lot of East European involvement, and if that is what it shows, then it is hard to argue with. However, is the data being skewed by small criminal gangs? Romanian gypsies may run pick-pocket and begging gangs for example, but the only stuff I could find on this is in the Express and Mail, so more sensational than data-led.

So I did my own research.

This link shows that at the end of 2016, there were 917 Poles in British prisons, out of a population of 86,000, so approximately 1%. There were 911,000 Poles in the UK, so per head of population are less likely to be in prison than the wider population. There were 654 Romanians in prison, out of a recorded population of 101,000, so about 6 times more likely to be in prison than a Pole.

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8 minutes ago, Ah-so said:

I do not live in a very smart area and the local school are filled with children from all over the world - the 2-form primary school near my house that doubles as a polling booth, has children from over 50 nations. Pupil premium is very high and a very small number are from a "white British" background. Typical London!

But I am aware of what the school's issues are - language is one in particular - but the under-performing pupils are actually from the white British group, including in...wait for it...English language. "White British" in this context would sometimes less politely be referred to as "chavs".

However, you point out in your subsequent post that crime data shows a lot of East European involvement, and if that is what it shows, then it is hard to argue with. However, is the data being skewed by small criminal gangs? Romanian gypsies may run pick-pocket and begging gangs for example, but the only stuff I could find on this is in the Express and Mail, so more sensational than data-led.

So I did my own research.

This link shows that at the end of 2016, there were 917 Poles in British prisons, out of a population of 86,000, so approximately 1%. There were 911,000 Poles in the UK, so per head of population are less likely to be in prison than the wider population. There were 654 Romanians in prison, out of a recorded population of 101,000, so about 6 times more likely to be in prison than a Pole.

Again, depends where you live. Partner's school, the ~30% non Brits (~70% EE, 30% other) are the under performing, by a significant degree too. Mix that with language issues and that 30% suck in all the extra resources - TAS, social workers, general behaviour issues.

Id put the Roma aside from the rest of the EE. The current lot we have are a scamming .robbing disaster.

An army mate sent me this a few weeks ago:

http://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/15658446._Disgusting__and__shocking__theft_of_Poppy_Appeal_tins_on_Remembrance_Sunday/

Thats a whole team of Roma, robbing poppy tins.

Back to the rest of EEer crime.

Prison stats are not a good indication of the level of crime - they have to be caught and the crime has to be reported. A lot of the violence is EE on EE.

The crimes the copper does hear about tends to fall into 2 groups:

EE blokes fighting and stabbing each other in the caravan/houses they share. This is very very common but you hardly hear about it.

Domestic violence. British domestic violence is, thankfully, rare and not too serious - mainly slaps and fists.

EE domestic crime is seems to border on attempted murder. And use weapons.

 

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  • 399 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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