jonb2 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 17 hours ago, iamnumerate said: A house in my road costs per month about £1000 pcm more than it would have done if prices had risen with inflation since 1997 and interest rates had stayed the same. I don't understand how people could be quite happy about staying in the UK, when there is such a massive increase in the cost of living, but Brexit makes them leave. It is interesting that people who remember life before the EU are more likely to vote leave, it is almost like somethings were better then and those that have got better (electronics etc) were not caused by the EU. I am a remainer as you know. I also grew up in the 70s and remember it well. It was mainly crap - the music was the thing that made it tolerable. There was probably more social cohesion then. Things were much more affordable than now, of that there is no doubt. Social cohesion now is badly splintered by successive government policies - Brexit being the final nail. I am not sure we will ever get it back. Nostalgia is a weird thing though, people always think the past was better - it's a human thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetcat Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 1 hour ago, jonb2 said: Social cohesion now is badly splintered by successive government policies - Brexit being the final nail. I am not sure we will ever get it back. Nostalgia is a weird thing though, people always think the past was better - it's a human thing. Not for me; things were pretty rubbish where I grew up. But again maybe bad memories stick. The demise of social cohesion is a feature of any country with heavy immigration from ancient empires until now. Probably also has reverse correlation with wealth and size of the unit in question, from what I see. People stick together in small poor places with low immigration, far from central controlling authority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 1 hour ago, jonb2 said: I am a remainer as you know. I also grew up in the 70s and remember it well. It was mainly crap - the music was the thing that made it tolerable. There was probably more social cohesion then. Things were much more affordable than now, of that there is no doubt. I am a bit younger than you and I am not quite sure that you are right about things better cheaper in the past, even in the 1980s I knew someone whose mum did not have a phone. Electronics are a lot cheaper, phoning abroad so much cheaper it is hard to believe. 1 hour ago, jonb2 said: Social cohesion now is badly splintered by successive government policies - Brexit being the final nail. I am not sure we will ever get it back. Nostalgia is a weird thing though, people always think the past was better - it's a human thing. I would say Brexit was caused by lack of social cohesion, if pro EU politicians had cared about people harmed by the EU like fishermen we might not have left. 1 hour ago, jonb2 said: Nostalgia is a weird thing though, people always think the past was better - it's a human thing. It was and was not better. Housing a lot better, my purchasing power is worse than it was in 2007 - and that was hardly a golden age. Electronics a lot better. University fees a lot worse (thank Labour for starting this and commissioning the review the Tories used as an excuse to push them up). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, iamnumerate said: I am a bit younger than you and I am not quite sure that you are right about things better cheaper in the past, even in the 1980s I knew someone whose mum did not have a phone. Electronics are a lot cheaper, phoning abroad so much cheaper it is hard to believe. I would say Brexit was caused by lack of social cohesion, if pro EU politicians had cared about people harmed by the EU like fishermen we might not have left. It was and was not better. Housing a lot better, my purchasing power is worse than it was in 2007 - and that was hardly a golden age. Electronics a lot better. University fees a lot worse (thank Labour for starting this and commissioning the review the Tories used as an excuse to push them up). I'll post this again IAM - it illustrates the problem - albeit US, it's a similar curve for most things here. The essentials vs consumerist crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 1 hour ago, jonb2 said: I'll post this again IAM - it illustrates the problem - albeit US, it's a similar curve for most things here. The essentials vs consumerist crap. That is interesting, although for London not true if comparing buying a house. It is more than 120% more expensive where I live than it was in 1997 and it is an area where prices have not gone up as much as others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, iamnumerate said: That is interesting, although for London not true if comparing buying a house. It is more than 120% more expensive where I live than it was in 1997 and it is an area where prices have not gone up as much as others. Yeah, USA data - but it shows the problem in general. Things like utilities, council tax, commuting and fuel are missing - all on a steep upward curve here. Edited November 27, 2017 by jonb2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fence Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 On 27/11/2017 at 2:35 PM, jonb2 said: Yeah, USA data - but it shows the problem in general. Things like utilities, council tax, commuting and fuel are missing - all on a steep upward curve here. Good point. It's key given the government spin trying to tell us we are better off. Overall, the necessary items have go up while the discretionary items have gone down. Hard to cut back on the necessary items. Apples and oranges. Then there's the manipulation of the inflation figures........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 On 24/11/2017 at 9:45 AM, winkie said: ......be interested is seeing a graph of LTD new companies set up over last 20 years......how many people they actually employ not including directors......and a graph of all new start up businesses that no longer trade. Not easy to start a small business and make it work not a level playing field..... most fail in the first three years, not supported ..... Put the kitchen radio (Roberts, Black Friday 2014, £89 from John Lewis as it happens, reduced from £140) away from BBC and onto some music stations... Llloyds Bank radio commercials for business lending are bugging me at the moment. There's two that keep repeating. 1st version. Some young sounding 'boss' of 'Cafe Annabel' (named after his daughter he says), grateful to Lloyds Bank for loan to get new coffee machine, to replace his busted one - and claiming his coffee is better than competition. 2nd. Some 'my father was a mechanic and now I'm mechanic' gruffy older sounding salty guy regretting missing out on buying an E-Type Jaguar which would have 'made great project' (for restoration/selling) - but now won't miss out if there's another on market, for has loan available. Later I searched on E-Type Jaguar prices (zoomy high very expensive prices - who buys them? HPI+++ mad-gainz owners??? Coffee for the feckless millennials as a business. E-Type Jags for HPI+++ mad-gainzers, with money to pursue glory motoring wayback days. #Mehconomy. Although there are younger people trying to innovate and avoid large bank debt - but it's far more difficult to advance oneself (and family) vs HPI+++ extremes in many areas / BTLers - and has been for years. (Although I accept some parts of country... as per durhamborn - can get a better housing balance). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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