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anonlymouse

Hans, are we the baddies?

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9 minutes ago, anonlymouse said:

A rare glimmer of self awareness over at Povertytribes:

Are we responsible for HPI?

This quote from there is very interesting:

"I think there was a period when BTL exploded in the South East and all parties involved were way too relaxed about it.  That was when the damage was done.  I remember having a semi that was a bit of a pain around 2005 ish so when the tenants left I gave the keys to an agent and put it on the market at £320k.  I quickly got an offer of £320k but the buyers wanted to meet me before they would go ahead.  I agreed thinking that a family would have a few questions for me, perhaps be nervous and want reassuring etc. In reality, I basically met a team of 3 "gangsters", for want of a better term.  2 men and a woman, smart suits and a very flashy Mercedes, but somehow underlying the respectable image, a hint of menace.  They proceeded to spend an hour telling me how the house purchase would work:

We would all agree that the price was actually £380k, not £320k.  They would then get a mortgage for £320k (close to the 85%).  On the day of exchange I would tell my solicitor that they had paid me £60k directly into my account (or cash, I can't remember) and he could go ahead.  Obviously they wouldn't really pay me this amount but that way they got the house for no money down and I would still get my £320k.

I went throught the obvious flaws:-

Agent:  Ans.  It's alright, they always do this for us, they just change the details.

Mortgage Valuation.  Ans: It's alright, the agent knows us and we know the valuer.  That won't be a problem, don't worry.

Solicitor.  I am on good terms with my solicitor and he will think this isn't right.  Ans:  Don't worry, our solicitor will reassure him.  They always get nervous but us paying you directly isn't illegal.

My CGT.  I don't fancy being taxed on an extra £60k profit. Ans:  I recall they even had this sussed in that I would be technically giving them some sort of incentive as a cashback etc etc.

It went on.  As a chartered accountant I said that this struck me as mortgage fraud and I didn't need to sell that badly.  I then had a row with the estate agent about this who was completely on their side. I still have the house.  Anyway they told me that it was me who was missing out as they were buying 2 or 3 houses a week like that!"

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18 minutes ago, Option5 said:

This quote from there is very interesting:

"I think there was a period when BTL exploded in the South East and all parties involved were way too relaxed about it.  That was when the damage was done.  I remember having a semi that was a bit of a pain around 2005 ish so when the tenants left I gave the keys to an agent and put it on the market at £320k.  I quickly got an offer of £320k but the buyers wanted to meet me before they would go ahead.  I agreed thinking that a family would have a few questions for me, perhaps be nervous and want reassuring etc. In reality, I basically met a team of 3 "gangsters", for want of a better term.  2 men and a woman, smart suits and a very flashy Mercedes, but somehow underlying the respectable image, a hint of menace.  They proceeded to spend an hour telling me how the house purchase would work:

We would all agree that the price was actually £380k, not £320k.  They would then get a mortgage for £320k (close to the 85%).  On the day of exchange I would tell my solicitor that they had paid me £60k directly into my account (or cash, I can't remember) and he could go ahead.  Obviously they wouldn't really pay me this amount but that way they got the house for no money down and I would still get my £320k.

I went throught the obvious flaws:-

Agent:  Ans.  It's alright, they always do this for us, they just change the details.

Mortgage Valuation.  Ans: It's alright, the agent knows us and we know the valuer.  That won't be a problem, don't worry.

Solicitor.  I am on good terms with my solicitor and he will think this isn't right.  Ans:  Don't worry, our solicitor will reassure him.  They always get nervous but us paying you directly isn't illegal.

My CGT.  I don't fancy being taxed on an extra £60k profit. Ans:  I recall they even had this sussed in that I would be technically giving them some sort of incentive as a cashback etc etc.

It went on.  As a chartered accountant I said that this struck me as mortgage fraud and I didn't need to sell that badly.  I then had a row with the estate agent about this who was completely on their side. I still have the house.  Anyway they told me that it was me who was missing out as they were buying 2 or 3 houses a week like that!"

who would do that ??   buying houses with no capital they are the ones who should go bust. 

 

 

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No chance of self awareness. Case in point BBC question time with the entire panel giving lectures on the evil 1%. Amusingly all members of the panel probably belong to the global 1% and most especially BTLer Emily Thornberry.  But hey not me mate it's the Corporations and the one percent ( politicians in the 0.1% excluded naturally).

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18 minutes ago, longgone said:

who would do that ??   buying houses with no capital they are the ones who should go bust. 

 

 

I saw this in my work  hotels and commercials properties bought with shady offshore companies and off balance sheet vehicles.

What do the public think we bailed out young couples and nice old ladies?

We paid and are still paying for this type of shit

Edited by Fromage Frais

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3 minutes ago, Fromage Frais said:

I saw this in my work  hotels and commercials properties bought with shady offshore companies and off balance sheet vehicles.

What do the public think we bailed out young couples and nice old ladies?

We paid and are still paying for this type of shit

i assumed it was BTL why i have lost 100k + interest last 8 years 

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43 minutes ago, Option5 said:

This quote from there is very interesting:

"I think there was a period when BTL exploded in the South East and all parties involved were way too relaxed about it.  That was when the damage was done.  I remember having a semi that was a bit of a pain around 2005 ish so when the tenants left I gave the keys to an agent and put it on the market at £320k.  I quickly got an offer of £320k but the buyers wanted to meet me before they would go ahead.  I agreed thinking that a family would have a few questions for me, perhaps be nervous and want reassuring etc. In reality, I basically met a team of 3 "gangsters", for want of a better term.  2 men and a woman, smart suits and a very flashy Mercedes, but somehow underlying the respectable image, a hint of menace.  They proceeded to spend an hour telling me how the house purchase would work:

We would all agree that the price was actually £380k, not £320k.  They would then get a mortgage for £320k (close to the 85%).  On the day of exchange I would tell my solicitor that they had paid me £60k directly into my account (or cash, I can't remember) and he could go ahead.  Obviously they wouldn't really pay me this amount but that way they got the house for no money down and I would still get my £320k.

I went throught the obvious flaws:-

Agent:  Ans.  It's alright, they always do this for us, they just change the details.

Mortgage Valuation.  Ans: It's alright, the agent knows us and we know the valuer.  That won't be a problem, don't worry.

Solicitor.  I am on good terms with my solicitor and he will think this isn't right.  Ans:  Don't worry, our solicitor will reassure him.  They always get nervous but us paying you directly isn't illegal.

My CGT.  I don't fancy being taxed on an extra £60k profit. Ans:  I recall they even had this sussed in that I would be technically giving them some sort of incentive as a cashback etc etc.

It went on.  As a chartered accountant I said that this struck me as mortgage fraud and I didn't need to sell that badly.  I then had a row with the estate agent about this who was completely on their side. I still have the house.  Anyway they told me that it was me who was missing out as they were buying 2 or 3 houses a week like that!"

Bet the place is worth a mint now ain't it. Flog it before the **** drops out the market.

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24 minutes ago, longgone said:

who would do that ??   buying houses with no capital they are the ones who should go bust. 

 

 

People with money they want to launder?

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If that story is true, they must have been battered by the GFC. Loading so much on liar loans in 2005, I can't really see how they would have gone unscathed. 

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5 minutes ago, Option5 said:

People with money they want to launder?

Its just mortgage fraud, its a victimless crime if your an MP/Banker the cheeky scamps.

You simply buy as much as you can with nothing down.

if this was 2005 they either went bust in 2007 or have made millions.

Honestly some people have played a blinder imagine doing this from 1996 > 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Freki said:

If that story is true, they must have been battered by the GFC. Loading so much on liar loans in 2005, I can't really see how they would have gone unscathed. 

well if they had a few properties their problem.

If they had 100+ properties......its our problem now :-)

2-3 a week x 52  = 100-150 a year

Dont think this is not exactly the same thing as the Chinese have been doing also via Singapore loans.

 

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4 hours ago, Option5 said:

This quote from there is very interesting:

"I think there was a period when BTL exploded in the South East and all parties involved were way too relaxed about it.  That was when the damage was done.  I remember having a semi that was a bit of a pain around 2005 ish so when the tenants left I gave the keys to an agent and put it on the market at £320k.  I quickly got an offer of £320k but the buyers wanted to meet me before they would go ahead.  I agreed thinking that a family would have a few questions for me, perhaps be nervous and want reassuring etc. In reality, I basically met a team of 3 "gangsters", for want of a better term.  2 men and a woman, smart suits and a very flashy Mercedes, but somehow underlying the respectable image, a hint of menace.  They proceeded to spend an hour telling me how the house purchase would work:

We would all agree that the price was actually £380k, not £320k.  They would then get a mortgage for £320k (close to the 85%).  On the day of exchange I would tell my solicitor that they had paid me £60k directly into my account (or cash, I can't remember) and he could go ahead.  Obviously they wouldn't really pay me this amount but that way they got the house for no money down and I would still get my £320k.

I went throught the obvious flaws:-

Agent:  Ans.  It's alright, they always do this for us, they just change the details.

Mortgage Valuation.  Ans: It's alright, the agent knows us and we know the valuer.  That won't be a problem, don't worry.

Solicitor.  I am on good terms with my solicitor and he will think this isn't right.  Ans:  Don't worry, our solicitor will reassure him.  They always get nervous but us paying you directly isn't illegal.

My CGT.  I don't fancy being taxed on an extra £60k profit. Ans:  I recall they even had this sussed in that I would be technically giving them some sort of incentive as a cashback etc etc.

It went on.  As a chartered accountant I said that this struck me as mortgage fraud and I didn't need to sell that badly.  I then had a row with the estate agent about this who was completely on their side. I still have the house.  Anyway they told me that it was me who was missing out as they were buying 2 or 3 houses a week like that!"

That's small time compared to Blair Brown Osborne Cameron and the expenses scandal.

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4 hours ago, Fromage Frais said:

Its just mortgage fraud, its a victimless crime if your an MP/Banker the cheeky scamps.

You simply buy as much as you can with nothing down.

if this was 2005 they either went bust in 2007 or have made millions.

Honestly some people have played a blinder imagine doing this from 1996 > 

 

 

THis is just a DIY version of the "deposit paid" scam that the house builders used to push. Win-win for all of them - higher registered sold price, no deposit requirement for the buyer, potentially lower CGT etc. How this was (is?) allowed I don't know - the price is what someone is willing to part with for it, surely? I suppose a potential downside would be the stamp duty increasing.

Edited by mattyboy1973

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4 hours ago, Option5 said:

People with money they want to launder?

No

They were putting no money into the purchase. They were increasing the value of the house to get 100% mortgage give or take a few thousand. 

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6 hours ago, Option5 said:

People with money they want to launder?

by registering a higher sale price on the LR when they come to resell it again the price seems more palatable to the buyer and of course no money needed to buy it in the first place. 

Nothing surprises me anymore. 

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13 hours ago, Insane said:

No

They were putting no money into the purchase. They were increasing the value of the house to get 100% mortgage give or take a few thousand. 

This.

Very common back 2003-2006 then esp. in the SE. Know tons of respectable people involved in this. The state of the market then.

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12 hours ago, Insane said:

No

They were putting no money into the purchase. They were increasing the value of the house to get 100% mortgage give or take a few thousand. 

They can't put dirty money into the property purchase but they can take clean money out as rental income and HPI, the inflated "purchase price" even helps with CGT. These people think long term, unlike our politicians. It's also a clean asset to justify their lifestyle to the authorities. Another trick was to inflate the rental income figures with dirty top-ups and take the "profit" as clean money, just to set them up as short term serviced lets at <£3000/week that always seem to be booked up.

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  • 407 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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