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House Price Crash Forum

November Budget 2017


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Just now, Tempus said:

"The OBR says that First Time Buyers will be made worse off post Stamp Duty [cut] because it assumes that property prices will rise by twice the amount of this permanent cut." https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/933343799983706112

So it is nothing more than a cynical attempt to get first time buyers to inflate the market.

They know it won't help them. They expect it will put up prices. 

Of course. That was the idea all along.

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OBR: Economic and fiscal outlook – November 2017

p.128: "The effect of this reduction in future SDLT costs would be expected to feed through into house prices – to be ‘capitalised’ – relatively quickly. Since the relief frees up FTBs’ savings to put towards higher deposits, these higher prices can be paid.

We assume that a temporary relief would feed one-for-one into house prices, but a permanent one will have twice that effect. On this basis, post-SDLT prices paid by FTBs would actually be higher with the relief than without it. Thus the main gainers from the policy are people who already own property, not the FTBs themselves. For some potential FTBs with smaller deposits, who are constrained by loan-to-value lending criteria, the relief will enable them to borrow a multiple of their SDLT saving, allowing them to buy properties that they otherwise could not afford – but more expensively."

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It's a bit silly really.

The definition of FTB is not wildly fair. (sucks to be divorced!)

And is not going to help First Time Buyers or the Housing Market beyond a superficial level.

Not my call, but if it was, I'd cut Stamp Duty altogether, introduce a Land Value Tax plus higher taxes on borrowing a la S24 to try and reduce levels of debt, and nudge prices down - but I imagine this would be impractical for some reason.

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1 minute ago, Errol said:

How do they define ownership? 100% ownership? Or could you own 30% of a house and still be a first time buyer?

I expect its similar to the help to buy isa eligibility - it covers a full or part share of ownership which will also include inherited properties. You will presumably have to sign a similar declaration for your conveyancer for the stamp duty relief as you would to claim the FTB help to buy isa bonus.


'I do not own, and never have owned any interest in land, whether in the United Kingdom or elsewhere, which:

(A) is: (i) in England or Wales: (a) freehold;

(b) leasehold, where the lease was originally granted for a term certain exceeding 21 years; or

(c) commonhold; or

(ii) in Scotland, registered or recorded, or would be capable of being registered or recorded, as a right of absolute ownership in the Land Register of Scotland or General Register of Sasines in Scotland, as applicable; or

(iii) in Northern Ireland: (a) freehold; or (b) leasehold, where the lease was originally granted for a term certain exceeding 21 years; or

(iv) an equivalent interest in land to the interests in land listed in paragraphs (A)(i) to (iii) above under the laws of any jurisdiction outside the United Kingdom; and (B) comprises a building that is used or suitable for use as a dwelling, or is in the process of being constructed or adapted for such use; and (C) (i) which I acquired as a purchaser by way of sole or joint ownership; or (ii) which entitles me to possess or occupy that land.'

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8 minutes ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

Looks to be some pain if your car is a diesel in band C. That's a hike of x4 ?

Fortuantely miss out on that one by 1g !

Fairly certain he said on NEW cars. Reuters seems to back my hearing up however there are a bunch of red tops with articles saying it will be for all cars.

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4 minutes ago, Northern Welsh Midlander said:

Fairly certain he said on NEW cars.

It was, and only on cars. Not including vans etc.


But he did say it would not include new new Diesel engined cars. So there must be a plan to have some super low emitting of polutants Diesel engine in the works...

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