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ARENAPUA

The Bank of Mum and Dad 'Its such a huge money. And guilt,

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Best article articulating how home ownership is now down to the 'lottery of life' and not hard work.

What's really heartening to be reported though is the stories of resentment that are starting to appear within social circles driven by those who are able to access help and those that aren't.  This never would have been reported a couple or even one year ago.

Get this article out there - share on Facebook, or whatever other channel that might help the cause to get the message out.

The tide really is turning..

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/nov/11/generation-rent-property-borrowing-from-mum-and-dad-guilt

 

 

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2 hours ago, ARENAPUA said:

Best article articulating how home ownership is now down to the 'lottery of life' and not hard work.

What's really heartening to be reported though is the stories of resentment that are starting to appear within social circles driven by those who are able to access help and those that aren't.  This never would have been reported a couple or even one year ago.

Get this article out there - share on Facebook, or whatever other channel that might help the cause to get the message out.

The tide really is turning..

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/nov/11/generation-rent-property-borrowing-from-mum-and-dad-guilt

 

 

Wow. You're right it's incredible to see this in print on the MSM.

It really feels like Modern Britain has been engineered to now be Boomers and their Babies versus everybody else- we are all their slaves via our rent and taxes.

 

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Ps in the article- "she prefers renting" is a euphemism in the MSM for "Please ignore your future likely destitution."

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31 minutes ago, LittlePig said:

Read the comments. Arrange by recommended

Hadn't read them. Right enough there are a lot of anti-HPI comments there.

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... They also own a cottage, which they rent out 95% of the time as a holiday let, and an apartment in a converted school, which has a long-term tenant. “These rentals, money left to us by our parents, and Tony’s job have enabled us to help the girls financially,” Valerie says.  Property, she says, is a good investment; she is keen to emphasise that none of her properties is left empty.

“We didn’t want Katie to be renting, which we saw as a waste of money,” Valerie says. “Basically, if you are renting, you are paying someone else’s mortgage.”

 She and Tony can’t do as much for their other daughter in London, though. “All those prices are beyond anything we could help her with.”

S'okay to do it as landlord though, and trying to make other people the rental-batteries.  A 'good-investment' now that one/two (?) of your own children priced out, by others also laying claim via BTL and seeing property-as-investment.

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Sharmila (50) was able to buy her council house, but has an interest-only mortgage.  Right to buy is, of course, one of the reasons that there is such a shortage of affordable housing. Many of the flats that first-time buyers are able to afford are former local authority properties that have been sold off. Sharmila is conflicted about this: “I can see both sides. I don’t think it should be sold off, but it was the only way that I would be able to buy my own house. It means a lot.”

Maybe she's just feeling bit of guilt against wider situation, for bought it likely at a very good price, and she recognises the fortunate situation it has put her in.   Homeowner at good price.

They were sold for homeownership - nothing bad in itself.

How many former Right-To-Buy homes have been bought (either owners tempted out by the mad-gains of offer.. understandable when they may have seen little money in their own lives - or after death/moving) by BTL investors into a mad-mad-HPI 15+ year frenzy.  So so many of them.

It's BTL/HPI-ism that has been to blame, not RTB by itself.  RTB without much HPI/BTL-finance, wouldn't have been an issue.  Just more homeownership and more people with a stake in society.  Instead BTL/HPI-ism seen the BTLers lay claim, and turn in back into far less insecure tenancies/rentierism.  When Sharmilla ends up selling her 3-bed... well the BTLism needs to be nuked so they're not all over it. (Section24 a good start).

Quote

 

Forty per cent of ex-council flats sold through right to buy are being rented out more expensively by private landlords, the Commons communities and local government select committee has found.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/buytolet/article-3197529/Two-five-Right-Buy-flats-sold-1980-hands-private-landlords-FOI-request-shows.html


 

 

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3 hours ago, Venger said:

Maybe she's just feeling bit of guilt against wider situation, for bought it likely at a very good price, and she recognises the fortunate situation it has put her in.   Homeowner at good price.

They were sold for homeownership - nothing bad in itself.

How many former Right-To-Buy homes have been bought (either owners tempted out by the mad-gains of offer.. understandable when they may have seen little money in their own lives - or after death/moving) by BTL investors into a mad-mad-HPI 15+ year frenzy.  So so many of them.

It's BTL/HPI-ism that has been to blame, not RTB by itself.  RTB without much HPI/BTL-finance, wouldn't have been an issue.  Just more homeownership and more people with a stake in society.  Instead BTL/HPI-ism seen the BTLers lay claim, and turn in back into far less insecure tenancies/rentierism.  When Sharmilla ends up selling her 3-bed... well the BTLism needs to be nuked so they're not all over it. (Section24 a good start).

 

Link to source of your Sharmila quote. Otherwise more Gender agenda. 

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She and Tony can’t do as much for their other daughter in London, though. “All those prices are beyond anything we could help her with.”

This is a great example of how prices rises hurt even those people who think they have benefitted.

How many family homes are these scumbags hoarding?  And yet still they can't protect all their children from the other hoarders.

Other people's homes might be a great 'investment', but your kids would be far better off if it wasn't.

 

Edited by DrBuyToLeech

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Don't see why anyone would feel guilty.

Life isn't fair. Some are born rich, some not. Some are born with a massive IQ, some aren't.

How people dispose of their money is entirely up to them. And if that means they want to give their children all of it, that's fine with me.

Edited by Errol

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12 hours ago, Venger said:

Maybe she's just feeling bit of guilt against wider situation, for bought it likely at a very good price, and she recognises the fortunate situation it has put her in.   Homeowner at good price.

They were sold for homeownership - nothing bad in itself.

How many former Right-To-Buy homes have been bought (either owners tempted out by the mad-gains of offer.. understandable when they may have seen little money in their own lives - or after death/moving) by BTL investors into a mad-mad-HPI 15+ year frenzy.  So so many of them.

It's BTL/HPI-ism that has been to blame, not RTB by itself.  RTB without much HPI/BTL-finance, wouldn't have been an issue.  Just more homeownership and more people with a stake in society.  Instead BTL/HPI-ism seen the BTLers lay claim, and turn in back into far less insecure tenancies/rentierism.  When Sharmilla ends up selling her 3-bed... well the BTLism needs to be nuked so they're not all over it. (Section24 a good start).

 

I am tired of the statement right to buy is the cause of the lack of affordable housing.

No it isn't - those homes are still being lived in of course in many cases by people getting state funding to pay their rent.

The shortage of affordable housing is due to a population growth of up to 10 million in the last 20 years with another 10 million to come by 2035, a lack of building to meet that pressure (well who could!), planning policy, cheap money and government policy. Right to buy didn't create a housing shortage of a crisis - all those properties are still there housing people!

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39 minutes ago, MARTINX9 said:

I am tired of the statement right to buy is the cause of the lack of affordable housing.

No it isn't - those homes are still being lived in of course in many cases by people getting state funding to pay their rent.

The shortage of affordable housing is due to a population growth of up to 10 million in the last 20 years with another 10 million to come by 2035, a lack of building to meet that pressure (well who could!), planning policy, cheap money and government policy. Right to buy didn't create a housing shortage of a crisis - all those properties are still there housing people!

Lack of housing & lack of affordable housing are not the same thing. The primary housing demand driver is money (available credit) not people. The ratio of dwelling stock to households is higher now than 20 years ago.

I don't know how you'd conclude that relative housing tenure availability doesn't affect affordability. The obvious retort is private rent vs buy/social rent (landlords hoovering up stock). However it's certainly reasonable to acknowledge changes to geographic preferences, and to question 'households' wrt changes in the distribution of new and existing population.

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45 minutes ago, MARTINX9 said:

I am tired of the statement right to buy is the cause of the lack of affordable housing.

No it isn't - those homes are still being lived in of course in many cases by people getting state funding to pay their rent.

The shortage of affordable housing is due to a population growth of up to 10 million in the last 20 years with another 10 million to come by 2035, a lack of building to meet that pressure (well who could!), planning policy, cheap money and government policy. Right to buy didn't create a housing shortage of a crisis - all those properties are still there housing people!

It's a combination of the two imo, but first and foremost population growth and secondly boomers recycling their wealth into their children's houses and BTL. When none of these three factors played a part in HPI back in the ''bad old days of Tory government'' when the indigenous population had to wait tables and only the elite went to University (and we didn't import a replacement work force of millions) house prices , of course, were the cheapest in the history of mankind (not joking they bloody were in 1996).  Houses were expensive from the Victorian era compared to wages.

Sadly we got Tony Blair and now the politics of education, immigration and debt is the truth and the holy trinity. No good the heathens from Mansfield and the Peak district trying to proffer a return to how things were. We haven't got a f%%king clue...because the values of Islington, Cambridge, the BBC, Theresa May, Jeremy Corbyn, Emily Thornberry, Sir Bob Geldolf, Polly Toynbee and Tony Blair is the Way the truth and the light.

Edited by crashmonitor

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Valarie 

Quote

“We didn’t want Katie to be renting, which we saw as a waste of money,” Valerie says. “Basically, if you are renting, you are paying someone else’s mortgage.

However taking other peoples money for her own mortgage is just fine 

Quote

After selling her house and living in Tony’s, they bought their current five-bedroom home – which Valerie says is now too big for them. They plan to downsize next year. They also own a cottage, which they rent out 95% of the time as a holiday let, and an apartment in a converted school, which has a long-term tenant. “These rentals, money left to us by our parents, and Tony’s job have enabled us to help the girls financially,” Valerie says. Property, she says, is a good investment; she is keen to emphasise that none of her properties is left empty.

I can identify alot with this article - no Bank of Mum and day for me hence I'm renting all my friends have houses not a single one saved themselves for or ever paid rent .I also agree that it causes tension , I find myself avoiding invites as sitting hearing them talk about how much there house is worth now is pretty depressing .

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12 minutes ago, crashmonitor said:

It's a combination of the two imo, but first and foremost population growth and secondly boomers recycling their wealth into their children's houses and BTL...

What evidence (not correlation or opinion) do you have that population growth is the main determinant of house prices?

Serious question. 7+ years on/off this forum and I've never seen any.

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1 minute ago, guest_northshore said:

What evidence (not correlation or opinion) do you have that population growth is the main determinant of house prices?

Serious question. 7+ years on/off this forum and I've never seen any.

+1. If population is a key driver, why are prices now falling in London? And what about the fact that there are now more dwellings per head than since records began? Here are the data:

https://medium.com/@ian.mulheirn/2-1-billion-square-metres-to-swing-a-cat-in-b1f13ee7ad6b

Population and the related "physical shortage" narrative are just too convenient because the "solution" that then obtains (Build More Houses) appeals to all the vested interests: landowners, developers, builders, estate agents, banks, mortgage brokers, politicians.

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1 hour ago, DrBuyToLeech said:

 

This is a great example of how prices rises hurt even those people who think they have benefitted.

How many family homes are these scumbags hoarding?  And yet still they can't protect all their children from the other hoarders.

Other people's homes might be a great 'investment', but your kids would be far better off if it wasn't.

 

Very true, you really only gain from HPI if you have more homes than grandchildren or if you don't care about your children/grandchildren or even worse like them being poorer than you.

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4 minutes ago, nickb1 said:

+1. If population is a key driver, why are prices now falling in London? And what about the fact that there are now more dwellings per head than since records began? Here are the data:

https://medium.com/@ian.mulheirn/2-1-billion-square-metres-to-swing-a-cat-in-b1f13ee7ad6b

 

Population and the related "physical shortage" narrative are just too convenient because the "solution" that then obtains (Build More Houses) appeals to all the vested interests: landowners, developers, builders, estate agents, banks, mortgage brokers, politicians.

Prices are still much higher in real terms than there were in the 90s.  A flat that would cost £60k in 97 is now about £300k.  Lots of land owners don't want more homes - they don't want their views damaged.

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Agree, but I think you are talking about the little NIMBY landowners, not the landed gentry that benefit from inflated land values as planning permission is granted for new development! Far from their own scenic views, of course ...

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10 minutes ago, guest_northshore said:

What evidence (not correlation or opinion) do you have that population growth is the main determinant of house prices?

Serious question. 7+ years on/off this forum and I've never seen any.

A clue might be where prices have gone in London and surrounding areas and the direction of prices in the provinces.  Indeed in areas of falling population...Burnley, outer Liverpool, Hartlepool etc. you can't give property away.

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Just now, crashmonitor said:

A clue might be where prices have gone in London and surrounding areas and the direction of prices in the provinces.  Indeed in areas of falling population...Burnley, outer Liverpool, Hartlepool etc. you can't give property away.

+1 despite Prescott trying to reduce the number of houses in Liverpool.  Of course we could offer the long term unemployed in London houses in these areas.

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2 minutes ago, crashmonitor said:

A clue might be where prices have gone in London and surrounding areas and the direction of prices in the provinces.  Indeed in areas of falling population...Burnley, outer Liverpool, Hartlepool etc. you can't give property away.

The Chinese have built entire cities that are almost empty. The land and property values are inflated! In london prices are falling desipte it being a population hotspot. In Ireland they have demolished empty developments they built when land values were inflated by credit. In Tokyo prices fell by 90% from peak and are still rock bottom compared to mid-1990s and population has nothing to do with it. ...

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There is the bank of Granny and Grandpa, too.  Not to mention widely differing  amounts of family help.  

An ex  colleague's two children had hefty trust funds from a grandfather who'd abandoned his own family early on -  their dad had hardly known him.  He left nothing to his own son, who was not well off and lived in a very modest  house. 

The granddaughter, on the other hand, was able in her mid 20s to walk into an estate agent in an expensive part of SW London, and enjoy telling the patronising EA,  who had evidently assumed that she wouldn't be able to afford anything on their books, that she was a cash buyer and looking to spend around £800k.  (I've been later informed that her house is now valued at something like £1.2m) 

I could tell myself that it's not fair that we were not able to help our two to anything like that extent.  I know we were very fortunate to be able to help at all, and that they were equally fortunate to receive that help.  I don't begrudge the money in the slightest, but at the same time, for the sake of everybody's children, I wish they had not needed help to buy their nothing-remotely-special houses. 

 

Edited by Mrs Bear

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10 minutes ago, nickb1 said:

The Chinese have built entire cities that are almost empty. The land and property values are inflated! In london prices are falling desipte it being a population hotspot. In Ireland they have demolished empty developments they built when land values were inflated by credit. In Tokyo prices fell by 90% from peak and are still rock bottom compared to mid-1990s and population has nothing to do with it. ...

Prices in Japan and China are still relatively high in migrant hubs. In Japan they just started from a crazy base but are still higher than this country.Sure if we built a new city in northern Scotland it too would stay empty. Migration has been the key force in driving global house prices....a slum in Beirut is worth more than a villa in Florida because its about competition for dwellings and land.

It's ludicrous to think that house prices are unaffected by an extra 10 million people mainly competing for resourses in the South East.

Edited by crashmonitor

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The point under discussion is whether you can explain much of variation in land values with reference to population. I think one can't. What about the data (for the UK) that record more dwellings and dwelling space per capita than ever before? if we built a city in N Scotland that remained empty and the land values were high, this would contradict that population is the driver of the land price.

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