Current house prices

[2buyornot2buy]

4 minutes ago, BelfastVI said:

HTB here was extremely limited. the grantee you refer to was to be given by local government and they refused.

Co-ownership is extremely helpful housing families that would otherwise have to be supported by social housing or the PRS.

Rent to Buy is a pilot for 95 houses. I like the concept as the majority of the rent is returned to the renter for a deposit if they choose to buy.

The changes to the tax treatment of the BTL market has effectively removed them from the newhome purchasers. I guess that more than compensates for rent to buy or even Co-ownership but may have a more severe impact on the market in a few years time.

 

HTB supported 2660 transactions and circa 300 million of borrowing that wouldn't have happened. If you want to call that limited fine. 

Co wnership creates new market entrants that shouldn't be able to compete. The ultimate price of that is that genuine entrants pay an increased cost. The banks are the real winners. 

 

I wasn't aware rent to buy was a pilot. 

 

 

 

[rattusrattus]

29 minutes ago, BelfastVI said:

BMAP was declared unlawful after a JR taken out by one of the government departments. In planning terms it dosen't exist. Most of the land I think you are referring to in Lisburn were zoned in the earlier 2001 Lisburn Area Plan

Ah right. What was the argument of the judicial review anyway?

[whome_yesyou]

1 hour ago, 2buyornot2buy said:

 

The mortgage market is tighter than 2006 without a doubt. But that doesn't mean it's tight. 4.9 times household income is credit bubble territory not prudent lending. 

 

Co-ownership supports 1000 apprx transactions directly. Aroud 5% of the market. That's an impressive figure. No doubt about it. That 5% could be much higher where chains are involved. 

 

Up until recently we had HTB guarantee. There' another 600 transactions a year that wouldn't be in the market. 

 

We now have Co ownership rent to buy helping the developers. Effectivey HTB by another name. 

 

This is not a free market. 

Agree. On top of that... interest rates being suppressed to emergency levels for almost a decade. NAMA, and the corruption which surrounded those NI properties being sold off. MLA/MP landlords.

Banks are willing to lend an obscene amount of money @BelfastVI, if you are looking entertained then I'd encourage visiting one of their websites and you will see what kind of windfall you could end up receiving. I found it funny at first, being offered a ridiculous amount of money (as I wouldn't even think about touching half that when getting a mortgage), until I realised anyone bidding against me will be offered stupid levels of debt too. There is nothing whatsoever to stop them being financially illiterate lemmings that will only look at the monthly payments, and who could not care less about risk or whether the term is 30 years and beyond. I hate that it's the norm to be offered this, and I hate the fact I'm potentially having to compete against this level of craziness when interested in a house. Even know someone that took out a Tesco loan a couple of years ago, and used that as a deposit for successfully getting a mortgage.

I know it is tighter than 2006... you could pretty much get a mortgage from a box of cornflakes they were being thrown out that much, so it's safe to say anything would be tighter than back then. This, today, right now, is definitely not tight and should be regulated to sensible levels.

[BelfastVI]

16 hours ago, 2buyornot2buy said:

HTB supported 2660 transactions and circa 300 million of borrowing that wouldn't have happened. If you want to call that limited fine. 

Co wnership creates new market entrants that shouldn't be able to compete. The ultimate price of that is that genuine entrants pay an increased cost. The banks are the real winners. 

 

I wasn't aware rent to buy was a pilot. 

 

 

 

How many of the 2660 transactions and circa £300m (at £113k support for each transaction on average) took place in NI? 

I'm sorry you feel there are people that shouldn't be allowed to own homes especially when we, as taxpayers end up paying far more to house people in social rented housing. 

Yes Rent to buy, as run by Co-ownership in NI is currently only a pilot scheme with funding for 95 houses.

[BelfastVI]

15 hours ago, whome_yesyou said:

Agree. On top of that... interest rates being suppressed to emergency levels for almost a decade. NAMA, and the corruption which surrounded those NI properties being sold off. MLA/MP landlords.

Banks are willing to lend an obscene amount of money @BelfastVI, if you are looking entertained then I'd encourage visiting one of their websites and you will see what kind of windfall you could end up receiving. I found it funny at first, being offered a ridiculous amount of money (as I wouldn't even think about touching half that when getting a mortgage), until I realised anyone bidding against me will be offered stupid levels of debt too. There is nothing whatsoever to stop them being financially illiterate lemmings that will only look at the monthly payments, and who could not care less about risk or whether the term is 30 years and beyond. I hate that it's the norm to be offered this, and I hate the fact I'm potentially having to compete against this level of craziness when interested in a house. Even know someone that took out a Tesco loan a couple of years ago, and used that as a deposit for successfully getting a mortgage.

I know it is tighter than 2006... you could pretty much get a mortgage from a box of cornflakes they were being thrown out that much, so it's safe to say anything would be tighter than back then. This, today, right now, is definitely not tight and should be regulated to sensible levels.

Its always confusing to look at what is offered. What is important is what people are actually getting (borrowing). Going by the Q2 2017 report from UK Finance Link NI FTB'ers borrowed around 2.95 times household income. Movers in NI borrow around 3.4 times household income. This is something we will have to watch going forward.

"Affordability in Northern Ireland remains positive

First-time buyer affordability in Northern Ireland was higher in the second quarter than for the UK overall. First-time buyers typically borrowed £96,900 (£137,700 in the UK overall), up from £95,000 the previous quarter. The average household income was £32,200 (£40,800 in the UK overall), up from £32,000. The typical income multiple in Northern Ireland of 2.94 (compared to 2.92 the previous quarter) also compared favourably to the UK average of 3.58.

Home movers borrowed an average this quarter of £118,100 (£178,200 in the UK overall), up from £115,000 the previous quarter. The average household income of home movers was £45,500 (£55,100 in the UK overall), down from £46,000. This meant the typical home mover income multiple in Northern Ireland was 2.57, compared to 2.59 the previous quarter and the UK average of 3.37."

[JoeDavola]

A friend told me an interesting story - he lives in a city centre apartment block. Expensive apartments with a combined rates and maintenance fees bill of between 2 and 3 grand a year. And that's before you pay a penny off your mortgage...

...in the block, there's a janitor. He lives in a housing executive house within walking distance of the apartments; a 3 bed house that he got right-to-buy for half price off the council. His 3 bed house cost him £13k.

He's probably got a bigger house than the majority of the high-flyers that occupy his block, and his house cost him less than a tenth of what they're paying for their small flats with rip off maintenance charges. He's no mug!

 

[BelfastVI]

3 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

A friend told me an interesting story - he lives in a city centre apartment block. Expensive apartments with a combined rates and maintenance fees bill of between 2 and 3 grand a year. And that's before you pay a penny off your mortgage...

...in the block, there's a janitor. He lives in a housing executive house within walking distance of the apartments; a 3 bed house that he got right-to-buy for half price off the council. His 3 bed house cost him £13k.

He's probably got a bigger house than the majority of the high-flyers that occupy his block, and his house cost him less than a tenth of what they're paying for their small flats with rip off maintenance charges. He's no mug!

 

Agreed. Right to buy was brought in by Thacher. The Tax payer subsided up to 50% of the price of the house to allow social tenants the chance to own their house. It has fallen out of favour in recent years as evidence of large subsidies are given to people who perhaps never paid tax whilst the vast majority of tax payers struggle for years to own their home. When Thacher brought this in the average council house was £30k and tenants were getting discounts of perhaps £5k to £10k and this seamed acceptable to lift entire families out of poverty and affordable home ownership (the agreement at the time was the tax payer was going to be paying their rent anyway). Now with discounts of £200k, in London and even £50k in NI it may have to come to an end.

[2buyornot2buy]

28 minutes ago, BelfastVI said:

How many of the 2660 transactions and circa £300m (at £113k support for each transaction on average) took place in NI? 

I'm sorry you feel there are people that shouldn't be allowed to own homes especially when we, as taxpayers end up paying far more to house people in social rented housing. 

Yes Rent to buy, as run by Co-ownership in NI is currently only a pilot scheme with funding for 95 houses.

2660 were the total NI transactions. 300 million was just the NI lending. 

 

Ever free market has entrants and those who can't participate. That's the way it works. I' happy to pay for social rent. What I'm not happy to do is pay for a subsidy for people who otherwise couldn't compete. They drive the price up for me and everyone else. 

 

Build state housing wood for with taxes and owner by society = yes. 

 

Subsidise others to gain capital at my expense = no. 

 

 

[BelfastVI]

27 minutes ago, 2buyornot2buy said:

2660 were the total NI transactions. 300 million was just the NI lending. 

 

 

Can you send me a link showing that £300m of Help to Buy funding went to NI 

[2buyornot2buy]

7 minutes ago, BelfastVI said:

Can you send me a link showing that £300m of Help to Buy funding went to NI 

300 million is the total transactions times the average price. A rough approximation. 

[JoeDavola]

One bed city centre apartment; £172K:

https://www.propertynews.com/Property/Belfast/DRTDRT1179/61-Custom-House-Residence/434658579/Page1

I remember seeing a 1 bed in this block no more than 4 years ago for about £100K. Wonder how long it'll be before we see someone asking £200K for a 1 bed flat - I saw it in the last boom; followed by the same flat in the same block being on for £90K a couple of years later.

[nigooner]

5 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

One bed city centre apartment; £172K:

https://www.propertynews.com/Property/Belfast/DRTDRT1179/61-Custom-House-Residence/434658579/Page1

I remember seeing a 1 bed in this block no more than 4 years ago for about £100K. Wonder how long it'll be before we see someone asking £200K for a 1 bed flat - I saw it in the last boom; followed by the same flat in the same block being on for £90K a couple of years later.

Now this is something I can agree that is boom prices!

Albeit I doubt the agent valued it at that price. I’d say this is a case of the vendor listing it at what they need rather than what it’s worth.

£172k for a one bed city centre flat is madness. Especially given the dimensions of the rooms.

 

[2buyornot2buy]

3 hours ago, JoeDavola said:

One bed city centre apartment; £172K:

https://www.propertynews.com/Property/Belfast/DRTDRT1179/61-Custom-House-Residence/434658579/Page1

I remember seeing a 1 bed in this block no more than 4 years ago for about £100K. Wonder how long it'll be before we see someone asking £200K for a 1 bed flat - I saw it in the last boom; followed by the same flat in the same block being on for £90K a couple of years later.

It was 100k without parking. 125k with parking. This is without doubt the best finished block in Belfast. Few of the old BTW staff members even bought in the block. 172k is crazy. 

[whome_yesyou]

3 hours ago, JoeDavola said:

One bed city centre apartment; £172K:

https://www.propertynews.com/Property/Belfast/DRTDRT1179/61-Custom-House-Residence/434658579/Page1

I remember seeing a 1 bed in this block no more than 4 years ago for about £100K. Wonder how long it'll be before we see someone asking £200K for a 1 bed flat - I saw it in the last boom; followed by the same flat in the same block being on for £90K a couple of years later.

Ridiculous. The estate agent should really be pushing back on those requests (if the price it come from the vendor)... it’s kind of embarrassing to have their name against that.

[JoeDavola]

27 minutes ago, 2buyornot2buy said:

It was 100k without parking. 125k with parking. This is without doubt the best finished block in Belfast. Few of the old BTW staff members even bought in the block. 172k is crazy. 

Best finished block in terms of hallways ect....yes. But as someone who's lived in a flat for 8 years, you're only in the hallways for a few seconds every day; at the end of the day it's a small one bedroom apartment.

East Belfast seems to have some examples of boom pricing too; I remember before the crash when semi's were over £300K....well here ya go:

https://www.propertynews.com/Property/BELFAST/JMBJMB15160/10-Hawthornden-Lodge/

[rattusrattus]

And a single aspect flat at that, something which no one has accepted in a house for the last century.

[Thorn]

Linky  no worky Joe

[filibuster]

Joe the links have your webmail account in them. Might want to delete and readd.

[nigooner]

just google the house address for the listing and the title of the article 

[whome_yesyou]

Just use the readable link:

https://www.propertynews.com/Property/Belfast/MCX669349/2-Casaeldona-Rise/435415916/

https://www.thesun.ie/archives/irish-news/46511/barclays-paid-for-house-of-horrors/

 

 

[Thunderstruck]

On 1/6/2018 at 10:10 AM, JoeDavola said:

One bed city centre apartment; £172K:

https://www.propertynews.com/Property/Belfast/DRTDRT1179/61-Custom-House-Residence/434658579/Page1

I remember seeing a 1 bed in this block no more than 4 years ago for about £100K. Wonder how long it'll be before we see someone asking £200K for a 1 bed flat - I saw it in the last boom; followed by the same flat in the same block being on for £90K a couple of years later.

 

On 1/6/2018 at 10:18 AM, nigooner said:

Now this is something I can agree that is boom prices!

Albeit I doubt the agent valued it at that price. I’d say this is a case of the vendor listing it at what they need rather than what it’s worth.

£172k for a one bed city centre flat is madness. Especially given the dimensions of the rooms.

 

 

On 1/6/2018 at 1:31 PM, 2buyornot2buy said:

It was 100k without parking. 125k with parking. This is without doubt the best finished block in Belfast. Few of the old BTW staff members even bought in the block. 172k is crazy. 

 

On 1/6/2018 at 1:45 PM, whome_yesyou said:

Ridiculous. The estate agent should really be pushing back on those requests (if the price it come from the vendor)... it’s kind of embarrassing to have their name against that.

I'm pretty sure the 1 beds were over £200k when originally released, and the 2 beds were around £300k. 

They are very nicely finished indeed, though not very big. The communal areas are highly appointed too, however as has been pointed out how much time is actually spent there. Also, to maintain the appearance will require funds from the Management Charge. 

Worth noting as well, especially if a potential purchaser, is that quite a few Apts in this block are short-term rentals, eg on AirBnB, so there will be all the associated issues from that. It's not pleasant, having neighbours changing on a sometimes daily basis, hence increased noise etc., especially when 1 bed Apts are advertised for up to 4 guests and 2 bed Apts advertised for up to 6. I have had a short-term rental unit as a neighbour temporarily and can advise its far from ideal. If I was purchasing in any City Centre development I'd be both checking the lease terms and also requesting from the Managing Agent via my solicitor if any known Apts are short-term rentals. However, they may not be aware themselves.

[longgone]

On 1/16/2018 at 11:59 PM, whome_yesyou said:

Just use the readable link:

https://www.thesun.ie/archives/irish-news/46511/barclays-paid-for-house-of-horrors/

 

 

i bit of underpinning would sort that house 

i.e some concrete chucked in a hole

[JoeDavola]

12 hours ago, Thunderstruck said:

Worth noting as well, especially if a potential purchaser, is that quite a few Apts in this block are short-term rentals, eg on AirBnB, so there will be all the associated issues from that. It's not pleasant, having neighbours changing on a sometimes daily basis, hence increased noise etc., especially when 1 bed Apts are advertised for up to 4 guests and 2 bed Apts advertised for up to 6.

A friend of mine used to live in the arc apartments near Titanic and suffered terribly with this. Parties, noise ect...airbnb along with management charges of £1200+ are the two reasons why I'd consider most city center apartments too much of a risk to buy; especially at these prices.

[Thunderstruck]

27 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

A friend of mine used to live in the arc apartments near Titanic and suffered terribly with this. Parties, noise ect...airbnb along with management charges of £1200+ are the two reasons why I'd consider most city center apartments too much of a risk to buy; especially at these prices.

Yes, looking at the likes of AirBnB, there are quite a number of properties in TQ, Obel, CHS & St. Annes Sq listed on it. Its fine for the owners of them earning good money, but it can both be highly unpleasant for neighbours of the units, plus potentially detrimental to the smooth running of the Apt block. Values could be adversly affected. In the apartment blocks leases there are likely clauses designed or can be used to prevent short-term lettings, but it will take a proactive Managing Agent/Management Company to enforce it. I would likewise be very wary about buying where there are lots of short-term Apts. Many other cities have taken steps to curb them in residential blocks and Belfast City Council should do the same if they are serious about trying to encourage long-term owner occupiers to take up city living. Short-term rentals are fine in specifically designed 'Apart-Hotels' where there are Concierge services etc., but not in normal residential blocks.

[JoeDavola]

1 hour ago, Thunderstruck said:

Yes, looking at the likes of AirBnB, there are quite a number of properties in TQ, Obel, CHS & St. Annes Sq listed on it. Its fine for the owners of them earning good money, but it can both be highly unpleasant for neighbours of the units, plus potentially detrimental to the smooth running of the Apt block. Values could be adversly affected. In the apartment blocks leases there are likely clauses designed or can be used to prevent short-term lettings, but it will take a proactive Managing Agent/Management Company to enforce it. I would likewise be very wary about buying where there are lots of short-term Apts. Many other cities have taken steps to curb them in residential blocks and Belfast City Council should do the same if they are serious about trying to encourage long-term owner occupiers to take up city living. Short-term rentals are fine in specifically designed 'Apart-Hotels' where there are Concierge services etc., but not in normal residential blocks.

Yep with the Titanic apartments, the management company apparently sent round letters complaining about the amount of waste being generated by the apartments - makes sense that flats where there's new people moving in every 3 days will generate a lot more waste and the infrastructure isn't there to support it.