London House prices are being battered !!!

[Pop321]

3 hours ago, Insane said:

I agree with your narrative on the last crash . I was there and saw  the misery unfold but the above I do not quite understand. 

People who owned outright were unaffected apart from seeing the paper gains evaporate. They just carried on living in their homes with no rent or mortgage to pay. In most cases it was those who had bought a place years prior and had paid off a mortgage so were free of debt.  For those who bought outright at the top the money would have come from the sale of a previous home or inheritance. The value of their homes crashed but even if the values had remained the same or doubled it would have made no difference to them. I don't see why they needed to work 10 years to make up the difference. Unlike the forced sellers of the time who lost the home and the chance to see the value return , those outright owners saw their paper equity return as the crashed market turned in the late 90's and went back up. There was no need for them to work 10 years to make up any difference. 

Take your point. 

I think because those who bought at the 'right time' could downsize and retired at 55. Those who didn't couldn't. Reality is it may have not impacted some of them as much as they believed nor may they have actually sold....but again it was sentiment about their options and wealth if they own a house now worth £800k rather than £300k (because they bought for the same price in 91 rather than 89) enabling someone to give up work. 

The 'paper gains' were also fed by large amounts of real earned money being used into each purchase. If your house is £30k and your salary is £10k then your wealth is derived from income and HPI....however nowadays if your income is £30k and the house worth £400k....then the salary is to feed the family and the house is 'the wealth creator'. So the loses were real earnings and savings. 

Crash 2019?

Edited November 11, 2017 by Pop321
Typos

[Castlevania]

7 minutes ago, Insane said:

No I never kept them , it is just a distant memory. 

I did come across an advert in my (keep for ever paper work recently) showing a block in Docklands being sold off in 1993 at about a third of the 1988 prices. I took it in to work and showed people they were shocked !! To say the least. I then bought it home and put it in a safe place to keep , I want to scan it in and post on here but cannot find it right now , I will carry on searching and post it if I find it. 

Reading old newspapers can be eye opening. One of the people on one of my whatsap groups found some old copies of the Evening Standard dating from the early to mid 80's in his loft, photed them and posted them. Elizabeth Duke at Argos were offering salaries of £8k per year in London back then. You could probably live comfortably off that back then.

I also remember back in my auditing days when I had to audit the circulation numbers for the Metro and having access to a filing cabinet of old Evening Standards. So I spent a good couple of hours looking at the Wednesday property pages from 5 to 10 years previously and thinking that's so cheap. Prices are about 3 times higher now (from back then, not the values in the old newspapers)  

[Odin]

52 minutes ago, Castlevania said:

The thing is, 10 years ago the first time buyers were invariably borrowing 100% of the value of the house on an interest only basis. They've then had 10 years of near zero nominal wage growth - if they got a couple promotions they may have tracked inflation. They only just managed to buy and now can't afford to move.

There was no wage growth in the 10 year BEFORE 10 year ago.

I see people on a lower starting wage today for the same kind of job as I took in my youth.

[Venger]

2 minutes ago, Castlevania said:

Reading old newspapers can be eye opening. One of the people on one of my whatsap groups found some old copies of the Evening Standard dating from the early to mid 80's in his loft, photed them and posted them. Elizabeth Duke at Argos were offering salaries of £8k per year in London back then. You could probably live comfortably off that back then.

I also remember back in my auditing days when I had to audit the circulation numbers for the Metro and having access to a filing cabinet of old Evening Standards. So I spent a good couple of hours looking at the Wednesday property pages from 5 to 10 years previously and thinking that's so cheap. Prices are about 3 times higher now (from back then, not the values in the old newspapers)  

Yes; really enjoy seeing old articles about the economy and house prices.  Good reading btw.

Just about everyone has seen my 1992 Telegraph article about developers disappearing from the market into the HPC.

And loads of derelict housing stock in Kensington coming to market when price was at a low - owner had sat on it, but all that supply came out to be sold into market low.

Picked this up on Twitter just the other day (wish I knew the year).  Things change !!!  And change and change and change again - on occasion, dramatically.

 

Someone posted a quote from GOT yesterday... I think of Tyrion to 'The Masters' who presumed they were victors and were there to accept surrender and continue ruling from their supreme positions, but then a turnaround and suddenly they saw how vulnerable they were.

"It always seems a bit abstract doesn't it, other people dying."  - vs the HPIers, many who believe their gains are all locked in / vs the BTLers who thought they had captured Generation Rent Forever.

[Insane]

8 minutes ago, Castlevania said:

Reading old newspapers can be eye opening. One of the people on one of my whatsap groups found some old copies of the Evening Standard dating from the early to mid 80's in his loft, photed them and posted them. Elizabeth Duke at Argos were offering salaries of £8k per year in London back then. You could probably live comfortably off that back then.

I also remember back in my auditing days when I had to audit the circulation numbers for the Metro and having access to a filing cabinet of old Evening Standards. So I spent a good couple of hours looking at the Wednesday property pages from 5 to 10 years previously and thinking that's so cheap. Prices are about 3 times higher now (from back then, not the values in the old newspapers)

Yes it is very interesting. 

I know that my Dad (he is 84) has cuttings from our local paper the Ilford Recorder from back in 1966 when England won the world cup and players like Bobby More lived around the corner In Gants Hill and played for West Ham , so the Ilford Recorder was full of features on the win and the players. 

I don't remember any  adverts for property in the classified section when I last looked but know my parents paid £3,750 for a 3 bed semi just outside Ilford in 1962. Now priced about £500k. What I do remember is companies in the local light industrial park at Hainault advertising for workers and stating that you could work for them and earn £10 a week. 

I worked in Selfridges for a short time in 1983 and was paid £100 a week and was shocked when reading an article in the Evening Standard at the end of the 80's which stated that Selfridges were then paying their staff £200 a week. 

 

 

[LuckyOne]

18 hours ago, Jazzman said:

I agree with most of this. I’d be interested in knowing how Florida and BC are panning out for you. 

It is a bit of a tricky question to answer.

I describe BC and FL as having a high quantity of life while the UK has a high quality of life.  There are things that I really miss about the UK, especially socially.  We have lived all over the place and I know that there is no such thing as perfection and that the best that we can do is look for the "least worst".

The housing markets are not homogeneous across either BC or FL.  We are not in (or within commuting distance of) Vancouver or Miami with their attendant issues.  In the parts where we live, our son could afford a modest, single family first home on his salary alone but wants a larger deposit before he buys.  HIs job also requires some mobility early in his career and he is aware of transaction costs.  Our naturalised British, Oxbridge educated daughter and her English Oxbridge educated partner would have to pay 9x their household income to buy their 2 bed lower ground floor flat with a very modest garden south of the river in Zone 3 that they currently rent at a sub 3% gross yield.

My take on it is that there is a 25% downside risk where we live and at least a 50% downside risk where our daughter lives.  Both of our home markets have peaked.

The absolute amount of money at risk is another factor.  Both of our homes together cost less than 50% of the single home that we rented in the Home Counties.

We are happy where we are for now.  If and when grandkids come along and if our daughter stays in the UK, we might rethink where and how we live.

I know that I have been very lucky in the way that my life has turned out hence my user name.  I am willing to attribute a lot to luck rather than to skill.

[LuckyOne]

2 hours ago, maverick73 said:

I’m hegding on the next rate rise in March.. by then the current oil prices will have filtered into the system.. causing inflation to rise.. hence forcing BoE’s hands once more... it feels like a fundamental global economic shift, as this bubble kick started in 2003... the era of cheap credit, created a spending boom.

I think that they key indicator to watch is the velocity of money.  https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2V

Monetary authorities have tried to counteract the collapsing velocity (flow) by pumping up the supply (stock) to maintain overall activity.   https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/money-supply-m2

At some point, the velocity of money will pick up and all hell will break loose.  It feels like we are reaching an inflection point but I have been wrong about the timing for a while now.

I think that history will look back at the last decade very unkindly.  Monetary authorities have forced people further and further out the risk curve to generate yield.  It is the ultimate mis selling in my book.

 

[maverick73]

A couple of negative percentage points is no battering.... but the illusion of it creates the plausability of running towards the fire escape ?

[Venger]

21 hours ago, disenfranchised said:

What I don't feel is a sentiment some seem to - a desire to turn to those who FTB'd since 2013 and smirk. 

.....All I am saying is, if somebody recognises the moral as well as market  rationale for a HPC, doesn't support HPI props and happens to have bought a house anyway because the ignomy of the AST and the seemingly indefinite wait for a correction made them crack, then I will feel some empathy for them if the coming storm is so brutal it wipes them out.

 

20 hours ago, Venger said:

You're projecting.  I don't know anyone who will/would smirk in such circumstances to an FTB 2013+ in trouble (although here they would be 30%+ up in equity due to HPI), if HPC were to ever happen.  It's never happened (HPC) in my area, even in 2008-2010.   

Maybe that's reflective of something inside you, and you think it exists in other hpcers such as myself?   That we're here to have fun at others in a HPC. 

....If it comes. Heard that position for years for buyers. 

...Digsby bought recently, and I've not posted about it, but I also feel same way as you do re Digsby - but he's an adult and I don't think he would want me worrying about him - to do so almost seems disrespectful to his own market choice, vs my expectation for HPC.   And I don't know what type of house he bought, savings put in etc.  It may be a balanced position.  He's smart so I expect it will be.

He made his own choice.  He went through rationale of why he bought.  I've had moments of .... what about Digsby in a HPC... but I have to think of millions of renter-savers, future generations, and trust Digsby didn't overstretch, and bought a small house with manageable position overall.  He knew just as much about market as I do, but bought.   

And in some areas, from time-to-time, I do see value.  I nearly bought 14 months ago, and almost ever day have pangs of regret at not buying that house....

And that's if any HPC (re Digsby) - many expect more props/more HPI/Gov won't let it happen.   We have to take positions.  No one is smirking when it comes to those without bomad on renting side, or those who buy at high prices (some don't think high thoug).  It's an awful situation overall for GenRent - but within it we have two choices.   Rent against the HPI, or buy.   (That can be buying in a very different area, as we were considering some 14+ months ago).   

 

[Venger]

@disenfranchised  - also note Digsby's reasoned positioning (and why I have him in mind) -vs- you getting right on your pedestal for a troll who has just upsized, 2017 account, hates HPC forum, and bought because he expects/expected more HPI... claiming "it's so easy to get caught up in the madness"... and all his hoping for mad-gainz in past (his guru Wallayat vs HPC)

We all have to take a position.

On 09/11/2017 at 7:43 PM, houseface2000 said:

The crazy thing is it's easy to get caught up in all the madness. Despite been a lurker on hpc since 2005 and aware of bubbles,  debt deflation etc I bought in the summer of 2016 Oxford peak. I genuinely thought it had much further to run and money would be made worthless whiles assets went to the moon negative rates etc it appears I wa wrong the momentum has gone a stuff just not shifting some stuff already back to early 2015 prices. I did sell a flat so was spending some btl twats money in some respects. That alone made me more reckless with my purchase!

 

On 10/11/2017 at 1:37 AM, disenfranchised said:

Whilst Venger will probably tell me what a willing adult market participant you were, if it goes south hard and soon, I will feel for the HPC brothers who couldn't quite hold out long enough. 

It seems grossly unfair some of you who genuinely just want to own 1 modest home will get burned, whilst people who went balls deep with borrowed cash 2003-6, MEWd and boasted about it since, dabbled in BTL etc... might come out in one piece.

It has to be case specific.  Nearly 10 years I've read posts as yours (and your own posts) dissy, about 'pity the innocent buyers'.  It's ridiculous.  We have to take positions in the market.   10 years almost... against "the buyers who can't know what they are doing"

This couple are adults.  They have bomad/inheritance and own market view.  Let me know if they need sympathy - until then, please stop getting gulled by trolls to step onto the pedestal with sympathy on behalf of buyers (imo) - they have their own minds. 

There may be no HPC - hasn't been in my area during 10 years of people stepping onto the pedestals with 'sympathy for buyers - "I'm such such a good-good person because I care - I know these buyers are overpaying imo - and I can see all they can't see"  - (they matter more than renters - don't want HPC if bankruptices of some owners no matter if they are HPI++++ HPC-hating owners like houseface2000 who gulls me left-right and upside down)... (let's just forget HPI++++ up another 40%+ over 10 years in many areas)

Human shields used by HPIers/BTLers to protect the HPI - and lapped up by many superior HPCers, also singing the same thing.

Quote

 

 

....

Top tips 
● Buy as large a first home as you can, to avoid moving again when you start a family.

 

 

[winkie]

Top tips 
● Buy as large a first home as you can, to avoid moving again when you start a family.

 

This I agree with......as large a home that can, plan to stay in for a fair amount of time to bring up family....not a home with a high price tag will always require two full time wages and forever low interest rates for that fair amount of time.

[disenfranchised]

22 hours ago, Venger said:

No one is smirking when it comes to those without bomad on renting side

Really? Don't you read BTL sites?

You are still missing the point about my feelings on the matter of FTBs. I am not virtue signalling. I do not care in the slightest whether anybody on HPC thinks I'm nice. The entire situation we find ourselves in is not the fault of the vast majority of generation rent. We have been screwed either way - I've paid over £100k in rent in my life and never truly had a "home" that didn't belong to my parents. If the market goes into a death spiral and I "win" financially out of that, I have still paid a significant human cost to hold my position on the market. Others have pledged the future of their joint endeavours for the majority of their working lives for a slave box barely large enough to swing a cat. Others have obtained a nice home with ZIRP, enjoyed it, and if/when HPC arrives will either lose it or carry a vast millstone of debt.

Whatever happens now, we have ALL to a greater or lesser extent been denied the opportunity to have a reasonable sized and priced, permanent, secure dwelling by the extreme financialisation of a basic human need. We have ALL been screwed. We are ALL the losers.

Whatever position people adopt on buying vs renting is not even that relevant to me - the entire situation is a shit show for the majority of people under 40. It makes me extremely angry.

Perhaps Houseface is a HPI troll, perhaps not. I don't really care. He is one poster, not an emmisary for a generation.

 

Edited November 13, 2017 by disenfranchised

[BorrowToLeech]

2 hours ago, disenfranchised said:

Whatever position people adopt on buying vs renting is not even that relevant to me - the entire situation is a shit show for the majority of people under 40.

+1

[iamnumerate]

On 11/11/2017 at 1:31 PM, disenfranchised said:

I've only got 10% of the way through that and thought "Jesus H Christ - put the bloody bold highlighter away and read the post again slowly Venger"

 

"You want HPC but without any spikes in bankruptcy / repossession....?"

 

Not what I said at all. Those are the inevitable side effects of true HPC and I accept them completely. 

I just don't feel any schadenfreude towards single property owner-occupiers caught up in it.

For the BTL scumlordz - bring on the burn baby!

 

 

+1

[iamnumerate]

On 11/11/2017 at 1:40 PM, thewig said:

Exactly my thought, you made the mistake of typing a trigger word or two and because the vengerbot isn't yet programmed subtly enough to read it like a human does, it was triggered to spew the cut and paste response 

 

Bad programming.

 

 

Very funny.

[JustAnotherProle]

On 11/11/2017 at 6:12 PM, Castlevania said:

@Insanedo you still have the newspaper cuttings? Would be great to read the stories.

It's not exactly what you want but this is always worth looking at:

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/wiki/Read_what_the_Newspapers_were_saying_last_time_around

[Barnsey]

47 minutes ago, JustAnotherProle said:

It's not exactly what you want but this is always worth looking at:

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/wiki/Read_what_the_Newspapers_were_saying_last_time_around

Those 1988 articles are uncannily similar to what we're seeing now 

[tomandlu]

On 11/10/2017 at 5:03 PM, winkie said:

A room with a view.

But is it art?

[winkie]

2 hours ago, tomandlu said:

But is it art?

Very nice, could be anywhere.

[Venger]

On 13/11/2017 at 6:54 AM, disenfranchised said:

Really? Don't you read BTL sites?

Eh...?   

BTLers are full on about themselves most of the time, although a few now deeply concerned about S24.  I don't read them fretting about FTBs/upsize owners of this year, last year, or any other year in the past.   They are all about capturing Generation Rent.

On 11/11/2017 at 1:11 PM, Venger said:

Although for houseface2000, houses are clearly just what 'you make money on' telling us of how wallayat knew so much more, and how if he'd followed wallayat he could have made a life changing £180,000 mad-gainz.

You're projecting.  I don't know anyone who will/would smirk in such circumstances to an FTB 2013+ in trouble (although here they would be 30%+ up in equity due to HPI), if HPC were to ever happen.  It's never happened (HPC) in my area, even in 2008-2010.   

Maybe that's reflective of something inside you, and you think it exists in other hpcers such as myself?   That we're here to have fun at others in a HPC. 

..anyone smirking on HPC side at prospect of it - if any HPC were to ever happen.

houseface2000 gave you all his views for why he bought.  The belief in forever HPI (to the moon from here) and renter-savers being wiped out.

houseface2000 also all about the HPI anyway, telling on his emails to Wallayat - and how houseface2000 now regrets missing out on £180,000+ mad-gainz if he'd followed Wallayat.

If it's loss for him ahead (price go down) , doesn't need violins.  All about HPI chasing.  His market view.  

Just as the couple briefly mentioned in Sunday Times (with pic above) - their market view.  "It seems unlikely the market will get any better for first-time-buyers"  

And they have an inheritance behind them in buying recently...... 

You know what... he's taken his market-view (if he's actually bought) - the main thrust of his positioning was to draw out "the greatest sympathy of people who know less than me" types.  ("Begin the bail-out / Can't have HPC / misery/bankruptcies - Protect the HPI ")

On 13/11/2017 at 6:54 AM, disenfranchised said:

Really? Don't you read BTL sites?

You are still missing the point about my feelings on the matter of FTBs. I am not virtue signalling. I do not care in the slightest whether anybody on HPC thinks I'm nice. The entire situation we find ourselves in is not the fault of the vast majority of generation rent. We have been screwed either way - I've paid over £100k in rent in my life and never truly had a "home" that didn't belong to my parents. If the market goes into a death spiral and I "win" financially out of that, I have still paid a significant human cost to hold my position on the market.

I really get all that.  Fully get it.  We already lost, in a big way - well I feel it - vs the HPI/BTL madness to extremes.  (Others won't feel that way).  

Yet we have no certainty of HPC.  We have to take position.  I can't do anything for those who choose to buy.  They see it as the better option than renting.

I've been reading about sympathy for buyers for 10 years, with many years of it on HPC forum, from HPCers who believe they know more.... vs prices some 40% above 2007 prices in my area.... and my family still renting.

It's their adult market choice.  No one has been dragging them into Estate Agents, to viewings (50 viewings for one recent couple in article of earlier this week) before buying. 

However this....

On 13/11/2017 at 6:54 AM, disenfranchised said:

Others have pledged the future of their joint endeavours for the majority of their working lives for a slave box barely large enough to swing a cat. Others have obtained a nice home with ZIRP, enjoyed it, and if/when HPC arrives will either lose it or carry a vast millstone of debt.

And it's their adult market choice.

If they'd listened (or were controlled by) some 'superiors' then many would be as priced out as I am - when in fact their sat on mad-gainz / low rate smaller mortgage paid down.

I just don't know how you can take that position.  It's not your choice.  It's someone else's choice.  Other adult(s) - and many with millions of different reasons for why buying has made sense... .2004-2017.   Where are the sellers fearing your big HPC?   Millions of owners but inventory on market in my area scraping historic lows.

I really don't know who you think you are when it comes to other people's adult market choices - millions of different minds.   No one forced them to buy a small home (and it will be bigger than that).  It's their choice.   And it's their debt.   

And it's all IF IF IF IF IF HPC happens.  It's not for GenRent to always worry/carry the owner side.   7 out of 10 owners with no mortgage (or thereabouts).  I know someone who bought in 2008, upsized in 2013, and upsized again in 2016.  It's their market choice.   They have super rich parents if worse came to worse.  They think renters are idiots.  They have their own adult market view.  They also believe in more HPI++++.    Who are you to position buyers/owners 

Quote

Neverwhere:  

The person saying "don't do it" should be the individual considering it, who should be aware that they are fallible and don't always make perfect decisions, and that the amount of money involved is non-trivial and high risk. The only way people can learn these things is by being allowed to wear the consequences of their poor decisions when they make them.

The idea of people as objects with no ability to make choices of their own, of adults who can't be allowed to make their own decisions or take responsibility for their own actions, is dystopian in the extreme. How could a society which regarded people in this manner do anything other than move towards a system of rigorous and all-pervading control over the the populace at large in order to counteract our apparent inability to think for ourselves?

That includes me/us on renting side.

Can't you see the glaring conflict in your position.   You've spent so many many years renting - and seen runaway HPI+++++ - even from 2012 in London prices.

And all the while others tipping into me how 'buyers are innocent/don't know enough' - it's ridiculous.   I put such a worldview as worse than BTLer and worse than HPIers....  adults have their own market views, and they don't need to be bossed-around by a would-be control squad.

People have their own minds.  They chose buying above renting - and it's got nothing to do with you.  You can't guilt trip me about their owner position.   

If enough people said no/refused to view / buy small apartments, they wouldn't be built.   (Although BTLers bought many).

It's all on the buyer - I'm on the Resistance side of long-term renter vs HPI+++++++++++++++++ /BTL ++++++++++++++++++

Quote

Neverwhere

Weak as hell.

More people are already suffering, because of the current dislocation between house prices and wages, than will possibly suffer in a HPC.

People who own their homes outright won't suffer.

People who have borrowed sensibly in relation to their household incomes and savings buffers won't suffer.

The only people who might possibly suffer are those who have acted speculatively, whether by holding multiple properties or by borrowing unsustainably for their main residences in order to maximise their stake in the housing market.

This relatively small cohort who might possibly suffer are also the ones who are most likely to have been driving the bubble and causing the suffering of those who are, as a result, priced out and unable to own homes of their own without borrowing in a similarly reckless manner.

In so doing this relatively small cohort who might possibly suffer have ultimately caused this possibility themselves. Not only in choosing their own personal exposure to the housing market, but also in the aggregate effect of their actions on house prices. It is the build up over the course of the boom that causes the bust.

The boom is the bad times. The bust is just the bad times coming to an end.

This relatively small cohort who might possibly suffer are also, currently, not suffering. In fact they are enjoying the fruits of their speculation as we speak, and many of them have been doing so for quite some time now, and may well continue to do so even in the event of a HPC, if they play their cards right.

(Venger) The fact that you are more concerned about people who are actually suffering right now as a consequences of the actions of others than you are about people who are currently very well off in relative terms but might possibly suffer at some point in the future as a consequence of their own actions, makes you a poster to admire in my opinion.

Not only moral, and honourable, but with the intelligence to understand the wider social consequences of the housing market and not have them obscured by individuals who would be put - or put themselves - before the quality of life of those who are already less well off than them.

If any HPC ever comes to market.   Maybe you should picket the Estate Agents dissy.   Protect adults from going to viewings.   It's their market choice, not yours... you don't know anything about how other buyers think (everyone is entirely different) or their financial positions and market expectations.   Only this view of if HPC hits (these owner victims) - but I've read that for 10+ years from so many 'I care' superiors, who ended up worse off financially than if they'd bought at same time they were sneering at the buyers then thought didn't know what they were doing.   We have to take market positions.  No one has been dragging adult buyers into buying at any point.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Venger

[stormymonday_2011]

On 11/11/2017 at 6:56 PM, Insane said:

Yes it is very interesting. 

I know that my Dad (he is 84) has cuttings from our local paper the Ilford Recorder from back in 1966 when England won the world cup and players like Bobby More lived around the corner In Gants Hill and played for West Ham , so the Ilford Recorder was full of features on the win and the players. 

I don't remember any  adverts for property in the classified section when I last looked but know my parents paid £3,750 for a 3 bed semi just outside Ilford in 1962. Now priced about £500k. What I do remember is companies in the local light industrial park at Hainault advertising for workers and stating that you could work for them and earn £10 a week. 

I worked in Selfridges for a short time in 1983 and was paid £100 a week and was shocked when reading an article in the Evening Standard at the end of the 80's which stated that Selfridges were then paying their staff £200 a week. 

 

 

Working shifts for the NHS in 1975 as an ancillary worker the pay was £35 a week in Surrey. That was a low paid job . Average earnings were nearer £45 a week. Average house prices in the UK in that year were about £10,000. (more like £14,000 in Surrey).

http://www.ukhousingreview.org.uk/ukhr1011/updates/pdf/11-047ab.pdf

BTW 1975 was not a great year to be 21 and working  in terms of life time earnings potential

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/what-you-need-know-uk-wages-over-past-40-years-1455148

 

Edited November 15, 2017 by stormymonday_2011

[Insane]

4 minutes ago, stormymonday_2011 said:

BTW 1975 was not a great year to be 21 and working  in terms of earnings potential

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/what-you-need-know-uk-wages-over-past-40-years-1455148

 

When I look at House Prices to wages I take a look at the street I grew up in  (Dad still lives there ) comparing what kind of people lived there when  I grew up and who has moved in since .

It was full of Teachers, Factor workers , Salesman , skilled manual , not people at the bottom but not far up the scale.

Today the street is filled with the retired from the above. The people who now buy the houses  are either business owners, city types, dentists much higher up the wage scale . 

[MARTINX9]

1 minute ago, Insane said:

 

When I look at House Prices to wages I take a look at the street I grew up in  (Dad still lives there ) comparing what kind of people lived there when  I grew up and who has moved in since .

It was full of Teachers, Factor workers , Salesman , skilled manual , not people at the bottom but not far up the scale.

Today the street is filled with the retired from the above. The people who now buy the houses  are either business owners, city types, dentists much higher up the wage scale . 

My dad bought his 3 bed house in outer London in the early 1970s on a 1.5 times salary mortgage with a £1,500 deposit  - he worked for the Post office. My mother gave up work when they moved in. His mortgage was never more than £50 a month. 

His house is now worth 20 times what his final salary was when he retired.

It wasn't easy for them - but now it would be totally impossible. 

[winkie]

Just now, Insane said:

 

When I look at House Prices to wages I take a look at the street I grew up in  (Dad still lives there ) comparing what kind of people lived there when  I grew up and who has moved in since .

It was full of Teachers, Factor workers , Salesman , skilled manual , not people at the bottom but not far up the scale.

Today the street is filled with the retired from the above. The people who now buy the houses  are either business owners, city types, dentists much higher up the wage scale . 

Good point......two roads I know of, both I would say were once mainly owner occupied.....first road made up of maisonettes in a slightly rundown area are now all rented out BTLs and/or let out to councils to home various people who could never afford to buy one......the other road that used to house the type of people that now live in the rented road, such as bus drivers, shop workers, low paid but important valued workers....are now owned by two full time well paid/professional commuters.....once that road was full of children that played in the road that had the one full time worker.....now nobody knows their neighbours because they are never there, both out working to pay for it.

[Insane]

6 minutes ago, MARTINX9 said:

My dad bought his 3 bed house in outer London in the early 1970s on a 1.5 times salary mortgage with a £1,500 deposit  - he worked for the Post office. My mother gave up work when they moved in. His mortgage was never more than £50 a month. 

His house is now worth 20 times what his final salary was when he retired.

It wasn't easy for them - but now it would be totally impossible.

Exactly 

My Dad bought in 1962 there were 2 children and my Mum did not work both still in their 20's they went on to have another 2 children by the end of the 60's. It was not easy but obtainable.

I have been told that my Dad took home £80 a month back then and the mortgage was £20. He worked as an insurance clerk. 

The house cost £3,750 and now worth about £500k that is 133 times its 1962 price. I do not know any insurance clerks who take home £10,640 a month which would be the same rise in wages.