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Catalonia Evento de Black Swan


TheCountOfNowhere
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2 hours ago, dugsbody said:

I don't think you know what the right to self-determination is, actually.

Then you clearly think I'm an idiot and there's no useful purpose in any further debate between us.

That said, if you or those who share your views remain curious on the idea of self-determination as set out in UN and thereafter EU law, you could start with the 1948 declaration articles...

15 - right to a nationality and the freedom to change it

21 - right to participate in government and in free elections

30 - freedom from state or personal interference in the above rights

...all of which pertain to peoples and individuals.

 

 

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5 hours ago, thehowler said:

Then you clearly think I'm an idiot and there's no useful purpose in any further debate between us.

That said, if you or those who share your views remain curious on the idea of self-determination as set out in UN and thereafter EU law, you could start with the 1948 declaration articles...

15 - right to a nationality and the freedom to change it

21 - right to participate in government and in free elections

30 - freedom from state or personal interference in the above rights

...all of which pertain to peoples and individuals.

I don't know you so I don't think you're an idiot. I just think that like others on here you're latching onto a false narrative because it's another way to put the boot into the EU. 

This is how the UN defines the right to self-determination:

"Continue to reaffirm the right of self-determination of all peoples, taking into account the particular situation of peoples under colonial or other forms of alien domination or foreign occupation, and recognize the right of peoples to take legitimate action in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations to realize their inalienable right of self-determination. This shall not be construed as authorizing or encouraging any action that would dismember or impair, totally or in part, the territorial integrity or political unity of sovereign and independent States conducting themselves in compliance with the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples and thus possessed of a Government representing the whole people belonging to the territory without distinction of any kind"

 

Anyone who has been to Catalonia is going to find it very difficult to argue that the people are repressed and don't have equal rights. In fact, they lead probably amongst the best lives in Spain. Therefore, I just don't think that self-determination gives Catalonia the moral right to perform what amounts to an asset strip from the rest of Spain. 

 

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Chicken shits ran away to Belgium rather that fighting to the death to defend their 'country'.

Meanwhile the Iraqi's deal with the Kurds.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/10/31/for-kurds-in-baghdad-the-failed-kurdish-independence-bid-provokes-an-identity-crisis/?utm_term=.f498dfc23919

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Surely it's just pragmatic? After all, they can make their points to press, the EU and anyone else who will listen more easily while at liberty.

If they return to Spain they will presumably be thrown into cells and effectively gagged for good.

 

 

Spain to Issue Arrest Warrant for Puigdemont if He Doesn't Appear in Court

https://sputniknews.com/europe/201711021058748183-spain-arrest-warrant-puigdemont-court/

 

 

Edited by Errol
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And more sinister Bolloxs from the Gruniad tonight...fake news frightening people who don't read books or understand that life is a work of imagination...

The ousted Catalan leader, Carles Puigdemont, has called for separatist parties across the political spectrum in Catalonia to form a united front in December’s regional elections, effectively turning the polls into a de facto referendum on his drive for independence.

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13 hours ago, Peter Hun said:

The Man Who Would be King gets his comeuppance

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41877858

But surely he was just following the will of the people? They had a referendum and he promised to enact the result (either way).

Anyway, I think he will appeal extradition (if it is granted) and then apply for asylum. Austria has already indicated that it is happy to discuss giving him safe harbour.

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He's out now and I guess he'll agitate from Belgium or another sympathetic state up to the December elections. If the independence parties win a majority it's another step down the road to a binding free vote - though a good chance they won't have the majority for a republic. Either way, locking people up and sending goons to harass them doesn't strike me as the best solution to the crisis.

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4 hours ago, thehowler said:

He's out now and I guess he'll agitate from Belgium or another sympathetic state up to the December elections. If the independence parties win a majority it's another step down the road to a binding free vote - though a good chance they won't have the majority for a republic. Either way, locking people up and sending goons to harass them doesn't strike me as the best solution to the crisis.

I think asylum in somewhere like Austria is probable.

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The Beeb are quoting Spanish Foreign Minister saying govt considering steps towards allowing separatist referenda...compromise looming, or maybe to bolster their national mandate.

We've created a committee in parliament to explore the possibility of amending the constitution to be able to accommodate better the aspirations of some of the Catalan people," Mr Dastis said.

"[But] a decision will have to be taken by all Spaniards."

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  • 1 month later...

Those Free And Fair Elections Are Today!

Will Catalonians get it right this time?

The newly purged police will be there to offer some friendly persuasion and Rajoy has told EU observers to stay away.

The people you really shouldn't vote for are either exiled or jailed.

Has Rajoy done enough?

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