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Catalonia Evento de Black Swan


TheCountOfNowhere
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45 minutes ago, copydude said:

Sadly, that is the truth. Juncker has spoken. 'The EU doesn't need any more cracks or splits'.  One fully expects to see everything meted out to Catalonians that was done to separatists in Donbas . . . the region will be asset stripped, state pensions stopped, banking services withdrawn (worked a charm in Greece too) and other forms of collective punishment. Actually a war crime under the Geneva Convention but who cares. Maybe water and electricity cut off. 

Complete fantasy. How do you guys get through the day?

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3 hours ago, dugsbody said:

Complete fantasy. How do you guys get through the day?

Asset stripping and withdrawal of banking services has already started. Political opponents thrown into jail, check, separatism declared a crime, check . . . and it's only Saturday . . .

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17 hours ago, thehowler said:

Always ready with a positive comment on the ineluctable evolution of the EU through frightening but essential change.

I called it a couple of weeks back and it looks like it's happening

If catalonia does achieve recognised independence they're out of the Euro

Would you keep your money in a Catalan registered and incorporated caixa or move it all PDQ into a 'mainland' spanish bank -  it'll be interesting to see the catalan's risk their money where their mouth is - and if I know Catalonians the money will floor out

All that's happened is that some ultra-nationalist ruling elites have seized on some populism for a grubby powergrab with no thought of the practical implications nor long term effects on the population at large - sound familiar?

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Yes, perhaps...or maybe these people should be respected for expressing their EU-enshrined rights to self-determination. The EU must aspire to protect and further the rights of its citizens, rather than the machinery of state. If not, it's worthless, and you would be arguing for an ideologically worthless, totalitarian entity.

If the referendum had been allowed to go ahead peacefully and without interruption then we would at least have a clearer understanding of the democratic wishes of the region's populace. An open referendum might be the sensible aim of the politicians who have declared independence.

Stark choices have to be made as to whether you respect the outcome of such democratic outbursts - or choose to contest the results with legalistic diversions while grumbling and attempting to undermine ensuing efforts with alarmist, absolutist and specious claims about people not understanding the damage they've done and the looming economic catastrophes they face.

 

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15 hours ago, knock out johnny said:

I called it a couple of weeks back and it looks like it's happening

If catalonia does achieve recognised independence they're out of the Euro

Would you keep your money in a Catalan registered and incorporated caixa or move it all PDQ into a 'mainland' spanish bank -  it'll be interesting to see the catalan's risk their money where their mouth is - and if I know Catalonians the money will floor out

All that's happened is that some ultra-nationalist ruling elites have seized on some populism for a grubby powergrab with no thought of the practical implications nor long term effects on the population at large - sound familiar?

They can still use the Euro.

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10 hours ago, thehowler said:

...or maybe these people should be respected for expressing their EU-enshrined rights to self-determination

Some big conclusions based on a fundamental lie.

The people of Catalonia, nevermind the people of Spain, determined that they do not want to separate from Spain..

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7 minutes ago, Peter Hun said:

Market research.

I love it. "Do you want to have your economy smashed and your state treated as a pariah by the EU, or do you want to remain part of Spain. Yes or no?"

Following your argument, perhaps the UK can claim the Declaration of Independence of 1776 should be nul and void?

Should we have recognized Kosovan independence?

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My argument/ you are putting exactly the same argument forward and you don't realise it.

Over 60% of Catalan's voted against independence in that market research exercise.. A vocal minority isn't going to be allowed to declared independence, regardless of your opinions on 1776 or whatever.

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17 hours ago, knock out johnny said:

All that's happened is that some ultra-nationalist ruling elites have seized on some populism for a grubby powergrab with no thought of the practical implications nor long term effects on the population at large - sound familiar?

Perfectly. It is no wonder the brexiters on this forum are flocking like sheep to this.

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12 hours ago, thehowler said:

Yes, perhaps...or maybe these people should be respected for expressing their EU-enshrined rights to self-determination. The EU must aspire to protect and further the rights of its citizens, rather than the machinery of state. If not, it's worthless, and you would be arguing for an ideologically worthless, totalitarian entity.

If the referendum had been allowed to go ahead peacefully and without interruption then we would at least have a clearer understanding of the democratic wishes of the region's populace. An open referendum might be the sensible aim of the politicians who have declared independence.

Stark choices have to be made as to whether you respect the outcome of such democratic outbursts - or choose to contest the results with legalistic diversions while grumbling and attempting to undermine ensuing efforts with alarmist, absolutist and specious claims about people not understanding the damage they've done and the looming economic catastrophes they face.

 

I agree with you about a proper referendum to ascertain the size of the population of catalonia who want to remain part of spain - Rajoy has handled  this terribly

 I do find it hilarious how eu haters want the eu to stick their nose in domestic affairs - I'm waiting for someone to want the mythical euro-army to be sent in

They don't know what damage the're doing, but they will - watch the capital flight - Catalonia is not viable as a nation state without proper planning (look at the  mess we're heading for). Puigdemont is going to be run out of town when they realise this

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57 minutes ago, Peter Hun said:

My argument/ you are putting exactly the same argument forward and you don't realise it.

Over 60% of Catalan's voted against independence in that market research exercise.. A vocal minority isn't going to be allowed to declared independence, regardless of your opinions on 1776 or whatever.

Er, market research had the Remain campaign as sure fire winners, but the Referendum result showed the research was very inaccurate. Biased even, in a very biased campaign of misinformation.

I think the Catalans deserve better.

But you have not answered my question about Kosovo, to which I would add Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia as well.

 

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5 minutes ago, onlooker said:

Er, market research had the Remain campaign as sure fire winners, but the Referendum result showed the research was very inaccurate. Biased even, in a very biased campaign of misinformation.

Remain? You mean the Catalan vote? its was boycotted and illegal plus subject to major irregularities (vote anywhere and as often as you want..). 

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18 hours ago, knock out johnny said:

 

All that's happened is that some ultra-nationalist ruling elites have seized on some populism for a grubby powergrab 

Even for you that's a shockingly ignorant thing to say about a country with a separate language, culture and over 1000 years of history - much of it characterised by Spanish repression. Poland was completely wiped off the map for 150 years, but even armies, mass arrests and occupation can't make countries disappear.

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Just now, copydude said:

Even for you that's a shockingly ignorant thing to say about a country with a separate language, culture and over 1000 years of history - much of it characterised by Spanish repression. Poland was completely wiped off the map for 150 years, but even armies, mass arrests and occupation can't make countries disappear.

Even for me - LOL. I like the way you've edited out the rest of my post - but I stand by what I wrote. 

Spanish repression - when the referendum on the new spanish constitution was held Catalonia had the 2nd biggest yes vote at over 95% in favour - but you knew that didn't you?

As for  repression look at their plans for a greater Catalonia

And what about the sizeable percentage of the catalonian population that wants to remain part of spain (i've heard it's in fact in the majority), but of course, much like Brexit, it's proponents want it done as quickly as possible before people realise what a con-job it is (much like the self-selecting and self-serving catalan independence vote)

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