Arpeggio Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said: UK people must be very very very very stupid. Sorry, do you mean UK people who buy in the UK? I think a lot of people don't look over the fence at the grass on the other side if only to realise how bad it is where they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, Dorkins said: Sounds good to me. This ends when asset prices and wages start to bear some resemblance to each other again. Nominal asset price drops, nominal wage hikes, all the same to me. Lots of existing asset owners are going to lose, I don't really care which ones. Inflation will kill one set, deflation will kill the others. Happy for them to fight it out among themselves for who gets to hold on to the claims on future income. Wrong....Inflation will kill the people who earnt their money....Deflation will kill the people who didnt. Still happy ? If the establishment will make money worthless, they'll also be happy to send you out to die and/or just take everything from you in the name of queen and country. There are no winners bar the crooks running the scam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Just now, Arpeggio said: Sorry, do you mean UK people who buy in the UK? I think a lot of people don't look over the fence at the grass on the other side if only to realise how bad it is where they are. Mostly, you must have seen the UK buyer who paid a fortune for an illegal build in Spain or a half built flat in Bulgaria ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 21 minutes ago, Dorkins said: You can only inflate a debt away through inflation if the income stream you use to service the debt is inflating faster than the debt itself. The government's debt is serviced through tax revenues. most taxes are paid out of wages and wage growth is nonexistent. No wage growth = nothing is getting inflated away, not government debt and not mortgage debt either Thats the bit everyone keeps forgetting. House prices have just about kept up with inflation since 2007 ( what the bankers want ). Unfortunately, no one's wages have so no one cannot afford to buy one ( unless on the pyramid already ). No wage growth = collapse. Last role of the dice for the BoE is raise IRs and hope wages rise. Good luck with that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said: Wrong....Inflation will kill the people who earnt their money....Deflation will kill the people who didnt. Still happy ? If the establishment will make money worthless, they'll also be happy to send you out to die and/or just take everything from you in the name of queen and country. There are no winners bar the crooks running the scam. Of course I would prefer people who invested in productive assets to win, but speaking from a purely selfish perspective it's not a game I have much skin in. If the 2010s and 2020s are to be badly run decades in which politicians pick productive investors to be losers so that rentier speculators can win, that's just the spirit of the age. As a wage-earner my main interest is to stop politicians from taxing my wages so that both groups can be made whole, which is what we have at the moment. Eventually wage-earners are going to win their corner of this just because there are so many of them and we live in a democracy with universal suffrage. I'm not sure what will determine whether holders of productive capital or rentier speculators will win out of those two groups. I suspect it will come down to how corrupt our political class is and how effective the UK's constitution is at ejecting corrupt political classes. Maybe it will take a constitutional crisis to eject the politicians who think their main function is to hand blank cheques to the financial sector every time their irresponsible lending comes back to bite them. Edited October 16, 2017 by Dorkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpeggio Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said: Mostly, you must have seen the UK buyer who paid a fortune for an illegal build in Spain or a half built flat in Bulgaria ? Can't lose on pwopertee innit! speculators I'm guessing. Bet the locals love them not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 7 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said: No wage growth = collapse. Last role of the dice for the BoE is raise IRs and hope wages rise. Good luck with that one. Yes. No wage growth = nominal HPC. Wage growth = real terms HPC relative to wages. Win-win for priced-out workers. The politicians need to decide which path they want to go down. Possibly it's too late and market forces will decide for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Dorkins said: Yes. No wage growth = nominal HPC. Wage growth = real terms HPC relative to wages. Win-win for priced-out workers. The politicians need to decide which path they want to go down. Possibly it's too late and market forces will decide for them. And your, what should be a, 10% deposit that becomes a 1% deposit so no one will lend to you? Pensions becoming worthless? Push up wages and the banker owned EAs will just demand the BoE print more cash and they'll push up prices even more. Its not as simple as...inflation will help you. Hyper inflation might destroy you. The bankers have played a dangerous game. It might still end in disaster as they just don't want to stop. Win win...don't think so some how. Inflation is the friend of the debt establishment not the workers. Ww2 inflation was zero...odd don't you think? We are being played by the powers that be. They just won't let u win even if it feels like u are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, TheCountOfNowhere said: Totally agree Venger. Sil, cheer the f**k up. Collapse of house prices can't be far off. Shame you'll be going to war with N. Korea tho. Below; HPC style forum in California (although with many more owners who brag about mad-gainz involved - they are not stupid... they just see the market differently). When someone else was saying it's all bankers and slaves, "and all is hopeless, vs the bad bankers who control everything". Millions of owners are intelligent. They have a view of the market. Not innocents. It's a market. Trouble is many owners want to be thought of as the innocents, as soon as prices appear to be falling, or fear that they might. Then there's those who cast them as 'stupid' as if they need a bailout. With everything blamed on bankers... when they're living in homes worth $1 million dollars owned outright? I make my own market choices, and other people make theirs. Those taking on longer mortgages make their own choice. Not slaves. Own choice. BTLers make/made their choice. And I'm not a slave either, just limited options because of what I see as extreme housing financialistaion. And millions of houses owned outright. Just recently, a lady I know (late 60s/early 70s) was telling us her EA neighbour told her he thought her house worth £500,000 in this market. She's owned it for 25+ years. Nowt that special a house. She was happy. EA smiley. Both feel like rich homeowners, and all focus on themselves, with no fear of HPC. They enjoy their homes. They like high values. It's not all 'we're all slaves to bankers' whatsoever. And just the other day a professor wrote about how we need those owners (of even higher value housing) to not 'suffer' any price falls, because such owners 'feel rich' and their spending is essential to the economy (ie if values fall then claiming it would ruin economy). It's nonsense. You/them, so many people from all angles, seeking to protect the HPI and just blame bankers; even for the super rich in housing. Innocents/slaves/power economy and blame on all bankers (there's an article of 4 young bankers renting/house sharing - they have it difficult as well). Quote ..with all due respect, what do you expect this forum’s users to do? Just stop talking about it and go cry in their soup? I get that your conclusion, and a reasonable one, is that the system is quite rigged against all but the deep pocketed and those connected to the central planning/government types will win while the rest lost. But it is in the discussion of it that people become educated about the exact levers (legislation, tax code, demographic change, whatever) that are directly related to the distortion in prices and markets. If those that are outraged just all turn into a one-tune chorus of “it’s all rigged and we’ve lost” then they risk being taken as conspiracy theorists and sore losers. Credibility is lost. One has to choose a theme to battle upon…and have some ******ing faith that ultimately we still live in a democracy. Talk, educate, know the issues–a little feeling sorry for yourself is natural, but taking it to the point where you consider all action, including talking, futile, is, well, just pathetic, isn’t it? Edited October 17, 2017 by Venger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Roady Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 more cheeriness?? Check out the headline story on BBC Breakfast today....house prices in the most of England and Wales have dropped by 10% since 2007 against inflation. Perhaps the Beeb are paving the way for Govt action...softening opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Roman Roady said: more cheeriness?? Check out the headline story on BBC Breakfast today....house prices in the most of England and Wales have dropped by 10% since 2007 against inflation. Perhaps the Beeb are paving the way for Govt action...softening opinions. I've been saying that for a long time and everyone ( some people ) tell me to shut up, there has been no crash, the graph on the front page does not lie. In 2012 large parts of the UK were down 30/40/50/60% in real terms but still people couldnt afford to buy them. The big problem is wages havent kept up and in the SE pit's much worse. Nominal collapse again needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) Comment in the ft online today - even if Carney does raise rates in November the market won't believe it will last as he's cried wolf so many times before,. So the BoE won't have much market ir leverage on the upside. The implication is it's too late stop inflation. Edited October 17, 2017 by Si1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, Si1 said: Comment in the ft online today - even if Carney does raise rates in November the market won't believe it will last as he's cried wolf so many times before,. So the BoE won't have much market ir leverage on the upside. The implication is it's too late stop inflation. Not seeing much inflation now. Oil price jumped, Sainsburys put their food prices up, so went to Lidl. Net result...lower costs. Holidays, all cancelled for fear of travel companies going bust. Net result...lower costs. Petrol costs up, driving speed down, 70 mpg. Net result...lower costs. Barber put up cost of hair cuts, now have long hair. Net result...lower costs. Garden fuirniture pushed up in price, net results, waited till the end of the summer. Net result...lower costs. Cost of utilities went up....move provider and fixed for 2 years. Net result...lower costs Costs of house prices shot throught he roof, packed it in and moving to france Net result...lower costs. They can shove their inflation up their rear ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 17 minutes ago, Si1 said: Comment in the ft online today - even if Carney does raise rates in November the market won't believe it will last as he's cried wolf so many times before,. So the BoE won't have much market ir leverage on the upside. The implication is it's too late stop inflation. From rolling live news feed: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-41612607 Wage inflation is the only kind of inflation that boosts house prices. (Absent easy-lending/borrowing - global inflows money - politics which breaks markets... as on Twitter in someone's response to a Housing Minister claiming that May is going to take personal charge of the broken housing market: "Markets don't break by themselves / Only politicians break markets.") Inflation in everything else (food, energy, medical) just takes away from the money people have to spend on housing. Although landlords not going to ease back on rents if they can help it, and I don't want hardships on the poorest. Yet as forum has said, food is cheaper than it was many years ago. It's high cost of housing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 20 minutes ago, Venger said: as on Twitter in someone's response to a Housing Minister claiming that May is going to take personal charge of the broken housing market: "Markets don't break by themselves / Only politicians break markets.") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) 59 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said: Not seeing much inflation now. ....Barber put up cost of hair cuts, now have long hair. They can shove their inflation up their rear ends. It's true we can take actions to limit inflation on us, but I would prefer not to have to give up some things. Vs Mad-Gainz/BTLers in position. We already have professors claiming that "everything has to be thrown up to maintain the mad-gainz, for wealthy homeowners are the spenders in the economy, for wealthy homeowners are the ones who feel comfortable to spend." I read a passage about inflation in a book which suggested that 80s inflation in South America caused people to stop going to barbers, and let it grow. And how then it became a wider style, including with the far wealthier footballing elite. I read on our forum, from one HPCer, how the new hipster beards (if that's right name for them?) could be a response by younger-adults without housing to try show 'extra manliness maturity' to try and attract a lady, to mask their rent-forever-loser priced-out and poverty positions. (Poverty vs house prices). Made me laugh. Those beards have also had big takeup from celebs. Updated: Quote LC1; April 23, 2015 I thought we had reached peak beard in the middle of last year?! A fashion journalist told me so, so it must be true. Love the idea that the hipster beard is a HPI phenomenon - young men stuck in an eternal childhood living at home with their parents and with no hope of owning their own home, of course they are going to try to enhance their sense of masculinity through superficial appearance, it's obvious when you think about it. http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/204251-a-top-tip-for-the-politicians-if-they-want-to-win-the-election-grow-a-beard/ Edited October 17, 2017 by Venger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) Si1, are you smiling yet ? Edited October 17, 2017 by TheCountOfNowhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sPinwheel Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 16 hours ago, TheCountOfNowhere said: Mostly, you must have seen the UK buyer who paid a fortune for an illegal build in Spain or a half built flat in Bulgaria ? Or that muppet that bought in France. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Doesn’t Seb Kurz look like Patrick Bateman (Christian Bale) in American Psycho? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 1 hour ago, sPinwheel said: Or that muppet that bought in France. In 2007 yes....in 2017....they're giving them away. The brits want to come home and are willing to pay to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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