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Arpeggio

Vegas Shooter on Psyche meds

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57 minutes ago, Arpeggio said:

I suspect it was access to a shed full of assault rifles rather than a bottle of pills which might have been the problem here.

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9 hours ago, stormymonday_2011 said:

I suspect it was access to a shed full of assault rifles rather than a bottle of pills which might have been the problem here.

Illegal access to Illegal guns, I think you mean. Murder is also illegal. Legality didnt make much impression on this man.

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Errol, I don't know if you incline to the false-flag view, but one thing strikes me about Roberts' article.  He claims it astonishing that "a few minutes of shooting" resulted in nearly 600 casualties including fatalities.  I agree - but in exactly the opposite direction.  How could 10,000 bullets fired over 10 minutes into a crowd of 22,000 at a concert (with the density you can imagine) have resulted in a strike rate of less than 6%???

Look at pictures of concert goers at e.g. Wembley in the dark under those multicoloured lights, all jumping and waving arms like retards.  Do you see any floor space between the bodies, even from some elevation?  How could the body area presented to Paddock have been anything like as low as 6% of the total targeted area?

Especially when even a bullet that amazingly missed all bodies before hitting the ground could easily bounce off and injure somebody; and that any single bullet could easily pierce one person and go on to injure another.

Given the rapid fire and length of shooting (averaging some 15 bullets per second for 10 minutes), I'm astonished the bodycount wasn't much, much higher.  Pardon the pun, LV really dodged a bullet there.

Second serious question, leading on from this and other incidents:  how come there's still no scalable technology to track bullets almost as soon as they're fired, so as to identify their source and then aim fire/missiles/whatever at the source gun?  You'd think laser scanning and fast computing power could be the basis of a system like this.  Yes, would be expensive, but what price all those lives?

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4 hours ago, Errol said:

Paul Craig Roberts Asks "Was The Las Vegas Shooting A False Flag?"

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-05/paul-craig-roberts-asks-was-las-vegas-shooting-false-flag

 

:rolleyes:

Quote

Here are some of the reported facts to consider:

The victims killed and wounded total 573. That number is the size of a military battalion. It is very difficult to turn an entire battalion into casualties with small arms fire even in a fierce combat situation.

Even?

The victims weren't trained soldiers in a war zone. They were fish in a barrel. And AFAIK, PCR has never been near a war zone.

 

Quote

There are reports of multiple shooters.

From other conspiracy theorists? In the 'fog of war' people mistake sound reflections, especially percussive sounds from above. We have some helicopter traffic here. I can tell you from experience that a reflection of such sound from a building can entirely deceive one as to the nature of their origin.

Quote

There are reports of gun flashes from the 4th floor.

So where are the broken windows on the 4th floor that he insists must be present for gunfire? And what of the highly reflective surfaces on the Mandalay Bay hotel? Every time I see reports from in front the hotel I get confused about its geometry because of the reflective surfaces. Is it not possible this might explain such flashes? That or people taking pictures of the carnage?

 

Quote

The windows on the hotel do not open and would require the glass to be broken.

But they are broken on the 32nd floor, quite unlike on the 4th afaik.

Quote

Stephen Paddock doesn’t fit the profile of a psychopath. Reports are he was a multimillionaire with airplanes and his own pilot.

1 in 5 CEOs are psychopaths, study finds

I don't know what PCR's angle is here, but seeing as he has been close to power, he of all people simply must know that success and psychopathy are in no way strangers. Henry VIII, Saddam, Gaddafi, Kim Jong-un are a handful of examples we can ALL agree on.

"Why psychopaths are so good at getting ahead,"  makes the well recognised point that:

Quote

Psychopathy is an inherited mental disorder, an illness that is the result of a deformity in the brain. Those who are born with psychopathy can be dangerous. They are also often very successful in ascending to positions of power.

But just winding back to the start of that paragraph, note also that psychopathy is an inherited mental disorder. And it has been revealed that the Las Vegas Gunman’s Father was a Notorious ‘Psychopathic’ Bank Robber.

And then there is Paddock's gambling habit. Risk taking is a psychopathic trait:

Quote

Those brains with psychopathic tendencies showed heightened levels of activity in the dopamine reward area of the brain, the nucleus accumbens, as they anticipated receiving the award.

The nucleus accumbens is the part of the brain that is always referred to as the part that blinds traders to excessive risk-taking.

- Why Excessive Risk-Takers Are Borderline Psychopaths And Make Horrible Traders

 

So to suggest Paddock doesn't fit the profile of a psychopath is just plain wrong.

PCR goes on:

Quote

His brother is dumbfounded, said it makes no sense Stephen did the shooting.

Presumably he thought it a better response to media questions than saying "yeah, I saw this coming a mile off cos he was stock-piling guns and, like me, has inherited psychopathy.  Moving on to more PCR stuff:

 

Quote

The Mandalay Bay Hotel is reportedly a casino....How could maid service clean the room for three days and not see 23 firearms and their ammunition? Makes no sense.

Maybe the maid knew her place and thought it best not to go rooting through the private property of a high-roller?

More to come ..

 

 

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... continued.

Quote

Why 23 guns? The number is beyond superfluous.

So presumably PCR is saying they don't exist. Okay. And he says

Quote

The large number almost suggests that the entire event is concocted as a gun control incident.

Fine. So why are the guys who sold him the guns, presumably 2nd Amendment advocates, confirming his purchase of his arsenal? Moving on:

Quote

Skeptics are waiting to hear from the authorities how a person at such a distance managed to shoot so many people in such a short time and with what automatic rifle and caliber the deed was done. As this part of the story is especially difficult to believe, we will probably not get the explanation.

Amply covered above by Qetesuesi (6% strike rate).

And his last material point:

Quote

UPDATE: Paddock’s girlfriend describes him as a “kind, caring, quiet” man who she envisioned a “quiet future” with. A woman knows a man. Her description is not one of a psychopath.

UPDATE, UPDATE:

Las Vegas killer Stephen Paddock 'sent girlfriend away to the Philippines' days before massacre

Quote

Speaking for the first time on Tuesday night, Ms Danley's family said they believed Paddock had sent her away deliberately in the run up to the attacks. 

I know she don’t know anything as well like us. She was sent away. She was away so that she will be not there to interfere with what he’s planning,” her sisters said in an interview with Australia's Channel 7 News. 

"She didn't even know that she was going to the Philippines until Steve said 'Marilou, I found you a cheap ticket to the Philippines," they added.

So either this is true and he kept secrets from her, or she is lying about her knowledge. I which case, like his brother, she'd be at pains to deny all knowledge. PCR's willingness to accept Danley's vested-interest statement at face value is in stark contrast to his usual stance as a conspiracy theorist.

And before we go, let's just revisit that last assertion of PCR:

Quote

A woman knows a man. Her description is not one of a psychopath.

Well, there's another trait of deviants of the species:

Quote

They don't experience genuine emotions toward others. But they can mimic other people's emotions, and often they come across as very genuine. As a result, their loved ones often have no idea they're incapable of truly caring for other people.

Anyone care to guess what kind of deviant we are referring to here?

Yep: psychopaths. Gawd dammit he just gone ticked another one of the psycho- trait boxes.

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24 minutes ago, Qetesuesi said:

Errol, I don't know if you incline to the false-flag view, but one thing strikes me about Roberts' article.  He claims it astonishing that "a few minutes of shooting" resulted in nearly 600 casualties including fatalities.  I agree - but in exactly the opposite direction.  How could 10,000 bullets fired over 10 minutes into a crowd of 22,000 at a concert (with the density you can imagine) have resulted in a strike rate of less than 6%???

Look at pictures of concert goers at e.g. Wembley in the dark under those multicoloured lights, all jumping and waving arms like retards.  Do you see any floor space between the bodies, even from some elevation?  How could the body area presented to Paddock have been anything like as low as 6% of the total targeted area?

Especially when even a bullet that amazingly missed all bodies before hitting the ground could easily bounce off and injure somebody; and that any single bullet could easily pierce one person and go on to injure another.

Given the rapid fire and length of shooting (averaging some 15 bullets per second for 10 minutes), I'm astonished the bodycount wasn't much, much higher.  Pardon the pun, LV really dodged a bullet there.

Second serious question, leading on from this and other incidents:  how come there's still no scalable technology to track bullets almost as soon as they're fired, so as to identify their source and then aim fire/missiles/whatever at the source gun?  You'd think laser scanning and fast computing power could be the basis of a system like this.  Yes, would be expensive, but what price all those lives?

10,000 bullets fired over 10 minutes (1000 per min), impossible for one person.

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Yes, I don't agree with a lot of Roberts' article either. 

Still, there remain a lot of unanswered questions: i.e discrepancy in check-in dates, room service stating '2 guests', who else spoke/saw the killer in the 5 days before, what did the note pictured on the small table say, what is on his phone/computer etc etc.

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1 hour ago, Qetesuesi said:

how come there's still no scalable technology to track bullets almost as soon as they're fired, so as to identify their source 

There is. Been around for a while now and used in various cities around the world (specific high security places). Not discussed much for obvious reasons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunfire_locator

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6 minutes ago, Errol said:

There is. Been around for a while now and used in various cities around the world (specific high security places). Not discussed much for obvious reasons.

Also struck me that mobile phones could be used "hive-wise" to 'triangulate' the origin of gunfire. at least 2d-wise, to give those caught up a better steer on which direction they should flee. My understanding is networks are downed in such incidents to impede the perps, but presumably wifi is still active. dunno if any of this is correct.

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53 minutes ago, rollover said:

10,000 bullets fired over 10 minutes (1000 per min), impossible for one person.

good point.

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1 hour ago, Errol said:

Still, there remain a lot of unanswered questions: i.e discrepancy in check-in dates, room service stating '2 guests', who else spoke/saw the killer in the 5 days before, what did the note pictured on the small table say, what is on his phone/computer etc etc.

True.

Moreover, it's a sad fact that backside covering by tptb spring into action mega quick in such incidents, so it is almost impossible to get to the truth, other than maybe years later, mostly when nobody cares anymore. Nevertheless, the basics are usually there for all to see ... trouble is the politics are in the detail. Thinking of Jean Charles de Menezes. Yep, we soon knew he was indeed shot by firearms officers of the state. It just took a while for us to learn he was not only entirely blameless, but also not acting suspiciously.

I'd be surprised if this incident deviated substantially from that picture of general truth with lies in the detail. So maybe the hotel actually did know about the arsenal and have destroyed video footage to that effect, fearing a backlash. Something like that, rather than a bunch of gun control false-flaggers shooting concert goes at close range before murdering Paddock in his room and planting 'evidence'.

 

As for the illusory 'motive', besides the clear psychopathy link, returning to the OPs post:

Use of Some Prescription Drugs Linked to Violent Behavior

and

New Study Confirms What CCHR Has Said for Decades—Antidepressants Cause Violence

There's plenty of examples, as the OP points out.

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Paddock was, in all likelihood, genetically a psychopath. What more do we need to know?

Maybe three years ago we had a discussion here about psychopaths - maybe I started it, can't quite recall. Either way I nailed my colours to the mast. What was the thrust of my belief? Essentially that I thought psychopaths were not wanted here on earth. And taking this to its conclusion:

Forget the war on drugs.

Forget the war on terror.

Forget the war on extremism.

Forget the war on trafficking.

Forget the war on poverty.

There is only one war we should bother fighting. The war on psychopaths.

So let's suppose Paddock is some flavour of psychopath, rather than your plain vanilla sort. Neo-nazi, ISIS, whatever. Who cares which? Bet he didn't.

The only people who desperately prefer he be one flavour over another are the other flavours of psychopaths. They'd far prefer we tie ourselves in knots trying to work out the flavour and come up with the view that we need more of the other flavour - ie them.

But what we need is less of all of them. Then we could have a more peaceful world. Which of course would be completely boring for your average psychopath, but by then we wouldn't have to worry about what they think.

PS : anyone watch last night's episode of The Detectives? (BBC2). Fascinating seeing a genuine psychopath being questioned about his suspected involvement in a man's disappearance. So affable. So charming. So relaxed. So plausible. So helpful. And then the forensics came back from the lab. He'd throttled the guy to death with a power cord. They say strangulation is one of the most up-close and personal ways to kill someone. You can feel the death you are causing so expressly. And you simply can't throttle somebody 'by accident'. Hard to imagine how one could do such a thing and be so cool about it in a police station. But that's your psychopath, innit?

 

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I'm open to the False Flag theories for this one. Like Tonkin Bay, like WMDs in Iraq, like Operation Fast and Furious etc.

Often these terrorist attacks will target civilians. The real IRA on the other hand tended to go for politicians and enforcers (army & cops). If TPTB were to do false flags in order to try and influence public opinion then they would do the former (civilians) not the latter. The Paris shooters wore balaclavas....and....took their passports. A passport of one of the terrorists floated down to the floor on 9/11.....How convenient.

 

8 hours ago, Sledgehead said:

As for the illusory 'motive', besides the clear psychopathy link, returning to the OPs post:

Use of Some Prescription Drugs Linked to Violent Behavior

and

New Study Confirms What CCHR Has Said for Decades—Antidepressants Cause Violence

There's plenty of examples, as the OP points out.

Indeed there are. Thanks for commenting.

https://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/PostmarketDrugSafetyInformationforPatientsandProviders/DrugSafetyInformationforHeathcareProfessionals/ucm169986.htm

Quote from above link: "These symptoms include changes in behavior, hostility, agitation, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts and behavior, and attempted suicide. "

What happened here was that when Buproprion was packaged for smoking cessation (as Zyban) the lawyers couldn't as easily say "They were already depressed" in the same way they would have argued when it was used as an antidepressant (WellButrin) and someone had just killed themselves or became psychotic etc.

It might also be worth noting that in the UK the regulatory body that approves all drugs is 100% funded by the pharmaceutical industry. Relevant part of Paragraph 98. quoted below link https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200405/cmselect/cmhealth/42/4208.htm#a15

"The MHRA is unusual in being one of few European agencies where the operation of the medicines regulatory system is funded entirely by fees derived from services to industry (drug regulatory agencies in other countries are more often only partly funded by licence fees). The MHRA's activities are 60% funded through licensing fees paid by those seeking marketing approvals and 40% through an annual service fee, also paid by the industry. "

Paxil study 329 etc etc.

21 hours ago, stormymonday_2011 said:

I suspect it was access to a shed full of assault rifles rather than a bottle of pills which might have been the problem here.

https://www.deseretnews.com/top/2519/13/Finland-15-nations-with-the-highest-gun-ownership.html

Switzerland Firearms per 100 people: 45.7
Firearm homicides per 100,000: 0.77

US Firearms per 100 people: 88.8
Firearm homicides per 100,000: 3.21

So in the US compared to Switzerland there are about twice as many firearms per person and 417% more homicides per 100,000. You find similar comparison if you do the maths for the other countries too.

The US is the most medicated country in the world. Also the US has the most medicated army in the world and more US soldiers commit suicide than die in combat.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/nation/2014/10/31/suicide-deaths-us-military-war-study/18261185/

At best you could conclude that the antidepressants they are giving them might not be working.

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20 hours ago, rollover said:

10,000 bullets fired over 10 minutes (1000 per min), impossible for one person.

Really?  He had 22 guns.  How many were rapid automatic?  He could have them all primed for use before beginning to fire, then when he'd exhausted one round simply moved onto the next gun, accounting for the brief pauses noted.

19 hours ago, Errol said:

There is. Been around for a while now and used in various cities around the world (specific high security places). Not discussed much for obvious reasons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunfire_locator

That's nothing like as advanced as what I'm contemplating.  I mean a laser scanning system that automatically detects any supersonic motion within a given radius, then when it does, identifies the size of the object, and if it's anything like bullet size (obviously these parameters would be tweakable) it simply calculates what's happening and tracks its line of motion backward until it spots the gun that fired it (using image recognition technology of course) and then fires something big at it.  Meanwhile, in the optimal case, it's able to fire a mini-cloud of smaller bullets at the bullet(s) already in flight so as to divert it from a harmful trajectory and possibly rip it up.  The point being, all the detection being done at speed of light, should be able to latch onto the gun while the bullet was only a short way along its path.

Meanwhile, back to my first question:  how could Paddock firing 10,000 bullets into a fairly dense crowd typical of concerts, have achieved such a low strike rate?  I'd have thought 50% much more believable.

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Paddock possibly psychotic but not ‘psychopath,’ experts say - 5th Oct

Lots of opinions there, but baffling lack of reference to an article posted the previous day in the same publication,

Drug given to Paddock calms some, provokes others, experts say - 4th

.... raising the issues brought to the forum's attention by this (Arpeggio's) thread,  referencing another article the day before that, again in the same publication:

Las Vegas Strip shooter prescribed anti-anxiety drug in June - 3rd Oct

 

The second article (4th), besides raising the possible catalysis of psychosis issue , reveals another aspect:

Quote

‘Marksmen regularly use it’

Patterson said when he learned that Paddock had been prescribed diazepam — a sedative-hypnotic drug in a class of drugs known as benzodiazepines — he immediately thought about two things:

“I wondered what psychosocial distress he might have been in and then I also wondered if he made up symptoms for a doctor so he could use the drug to make him more relaxed in the moment for better shooting,” he said, adding that “marksmen regularly use it.”

 

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12 hours ago, Qetesuesi said:

Meanwhile, back to my first question:  how could Paddock firing 10,000 bullets into a fairly dense crowd typical of concerts, have achieved such a low strike rate?  I'd have thought 50% much more believable.

From what I understand, he was shooting .223 at a range of 300 yards or more, with some hacked-up fully-automatic mod on his rifle, and a red-dot sight. That would be inaccurate as hell.

We're lucky he used guns. He could have done far more damage by crashing one of his planes into the crowd with an IED on board (and having ammonium nitrate in his car tends to imply he'd thought of building one).

And he could have killed more with a scoped, bolt-action hunting rifle with decent long-range ammo. Heck, even an old WW2 Lee-Enfield would probably do.

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On 2017/10/05 at 5:07 PM, stormymonday_2011 said:

I suspect it was access to a shed full of assault rifles rather than a bottle of pills which might have been the problem here.

He was apparently a multimillionaire. Do you really think he couldn't have acquired those guns illegally if he wanted to?

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