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Butthead

Employment law

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I've seen a few threads on here over the years where some posters have seemed to know quite a lot about employment law. Would appreciated any educated views on the following.

I've read here before that once you have been employed for more than 2 years you are much harder to sack i.e. their justification has to be much stronger. Is that right? Any source for that?

If a group of workmates go out socially after work on a work sponsored / work paid for meal or something, and one person says things that could normally be considered bullying/harrassment/gross misconduct, does it still count? Can you be sacked for saying something at 11pm in a restaurant in the way you could if you said it at 11am in the office?

Just curious. No specific events have occurred.... yet!

Thanks

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8 hours ago, Flopsy said:

This case was interesting to see what one could get away with when drunk

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/30/police-chief-exposed-breast-colleague-drunken-tirade-allowed/

 

 

 

Hmmmm....seems like nothing more than female equivalent of a dick measuring contest - and appears to display a level of insecurity and inadequacy by the boob flasher in question. In more Neanderthal days gone by IF it had been a male colleague yanking out his tackle and swinging it in front of a male colleague no one would have batted an eyelid - and certainly not complained? In todays PC (pun intended!) culture said dick waver would likely be fired?

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Up to 2 years they can terminante your contract without any real reason. Thisbused to be 1 year.

After 2 years it is quite hard to sack an employee but not impossible

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18 hours ago, Butthead said:

I've read here before that once you have been employed for more than 2 years you are much harder to sack

I know a bit. Just to be clear, by sack, you probably mean made redundant.

Under 2 years, an employer will just issue you your notice. Redundancy law is not applicable.

Or, your employment can be terminated immediately for gross misconduct any time e.g. stealing or violence.

There are some exceptions like if you have been forced out because you're a whistle blower or there is some racist motive.

Above 2 years, it gets more complicated. If you're employer wants to give you your notice they must follow some steps.

The most obvious technique is to have a restructure and in the new structure your role is made redundant. They can't fill a similar role for X months after you leave. They must pay you some extra redundancy pay, but it's pretty trivial unless you've been there a long time.

The employer must be seen to be at least trying to find you a position like offering you other roles in the new structure. People get offered roles and then an argument will start whether it's considered "suitable alternative employment". Pay can be less, seniority (being a line manager) can be lost etc. If it's a merger they can pit you against your equivalents and the criteria to decide must be fair and open.

If the company is sensible, they just need to follow a few simple steps and they'll easily get rid of you. Luckily for employment lawyers, companies do crazy things sometimes.

More respectful companies will just make a big enough cash offer above redundancy that it makes sense to walk away. It can get very messy.

Sometimes employers can just start making their employees bored or frustrated so they look for another job but this can open up a risk of being sued for constructive dismissal.

They can't just get rid of you for poor performance either. They would need to have a meeting with you and show you how they are measuring your performance and give you an opportunity to improve.

As for your scenario, tread carefully. There are some examples of case law found online which give you some clues. Best thing to do is be very cautious when socialising with colleagues especially when wasted!

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23 hours ago, Butthead said:

I've seen a few threads on here over the years where some posters have seemed to know quite a lot about employment law. Would appreciated any educated views on the following.

I've read here before that once you have been employed for more than 2 years you are much harder to sack i.e. their justification has to be much stronger. Is that right? Any source for that?

If a group of workmates go out socially after work on a work sponsored / work paid for meal or something, and one person says things that could normally be considered bullying/harrassment/gross misconduct, does it still count? Can you be sacked for saying something at 11pm in a restaurant in the way you could if you said it at 11am in the office?

Just curious. No specific events have occurred.... yet!

Thanks

difficult one.Very much depends on your job role......for an average shopfloor worker out with colleagues on a bit of a boozer/company do then unless it's something really serious like groping the manager then no grounds at all.

For other roles ie sales/customer facing, you are expected to maintain etiquette even when inebriated with prospective clients at 11 in the evening, so a f*** up there would not be at all taken kindly,

 

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1 minute ago, oracle said:

difficult one.Very much depends on your job role......for an average shopfloor worker out with colleagues on a bit of a boozer/company do then unless it's something really serious like groping the manager then no grounds at all.

For other roles ie sales/customer facing, you are expected to maintain etiquette even when inebriated with prospective clients at 11 in the evening, so a f*** up there would not be at all taken kindly,

 

RE cica's comments.

I totally agree. not a good look getting completely wasted at works parties.keep it professional.

a few beers +meal and a bit of a chinwag by all means, but do not go overboard on "official" do's. 

If you get together with a couple of colleagues outside work arrangements then it's no problem!

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On 10/4/2017 at 3:28 PM, cica said:

I know a bit. Just to be clear, by sack, you probably mean made redundant.

Under 2 years, an employer will just issue you your notice. Redundancy law is not applicable.

Or, your employment can be terminated immediately for gross misconduct any time e.g. stealing or violence.

There are some exceptions like if you have been forced out because you're a whistle blower or there is some racist motive.

Above 2 years, it gets more complicated. If you're employer wants to give you your notice they must follow some steps.

The most obvious technique is to have a restructure and in the new structure your role is made redundant. They can't fill a similar role for X months after you leave. They must pay you some extra redundancy pay, but it's pretty trivial unless you've been there a long time.

The employer must be seen to be at least trying to find you a position like offering you other roles in the new structure. People get offered roles and then an argument will start whether it's considered "suitable alternative employment". Pay can be less, seniority (being a line manager) can be lost etc. If it's a merger they can pit you against your equivalents and the criteria to decide must be fair and open.

If the company is sensible, they just need to follow a few simple steps and they'll easily get rid of you. Luckily for employment lawyers, companies do crazy things sometimes.

More respectful companies will just make a big enough cash offer above redundancy that it makes sense to walk away. It can get very messy.

Sometimes employers can just start making their employees bored or frustrated so they look for another job but this can open up a risk of being sued for constructive dismissal.

They can't just get rid of you for poor performance either. They would need to have a meeting with you and show you how they are measuring your performance and give you an opportunity to improve.

As for your scenario, tread carefully. There are some examples of case law found online which give you some clues. Best thing to do is be very cautious when socialising with colleagues especially when wasted!

This was really useful, thank you.

I don' t mean redundancy. I'm talking about an employee who is successfully fulfilling their role in a role that can't possibly be made redundant - it is the reason the company exists. However this employee asks awkward questions and challenges people in authority on things they don't like to be challenged on. As such, some in the company would prefer to find an excuse to get rid of this employee, and they have form for doing so with others.

It sounds like this is much harder to do after the employee has been employed for two years.

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