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Help to "Buy" (Sell) to be pumped up

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42 minutes ago, Nabby81 said:

You are correct I did the calculator on website gave me a decent mortgage total , went into branch gave them my childcare figures and halved what they were prepared to lend. 

http://www.cityam.com/273050/uk-must-get-off-help-buy-binge

Be interesting to here Labours response because they were keen to keep the policy in their election manifesto ...

For those buying I suspect they will end up trapped , once they use the HTB loan up on the new build people buying from them can not and have to stump up the full price and I suspect many won't .Shared Ownership is another shambles , article in Evening standard last week showing how great it is couple buy 25% share property has increased 75k since they brought so they have more equity ..they fail to mention the part where the 75% they don't own has gone up more than their 25% so yes they have gained some equity but that has been eaten up by the growth in the larger share .Basic maths if the property goes up 100k and you own 25% thats 25k for you but 75K on top of the price so actually your now 50K further from owning plus interest !!!!!!

So yesterday on Facebook the Shadow Chancellor came out against HTB.  

Screen Shot 2017-10-01 at 14.02.33.png

Corbyn's response spoke only of the tuition fees.

This is slightly confusing because as you say, HTB is included in their manifesto. 

http://www.labour.org.uk/index.php/manifesto2017/secure-homes-for-all

Quote

Labour will back first-time buyers to buy that special first home. The number of affordable homes to buy has plummeted by two-thirds under the Conservatives, so we will build thousands more low-cost homes reserved for first-time buyers. We will guarantee Help to Buy funding until 2027 to give long-term certainty to both first-time buyers and the housebuilding industry. We will also give local people buying their first home 'first dibs’ on new homes built in their area to give them confidence that new homes will be available to them and their families.

Importantly it was not a headline policy for them. It was not one of the policies that was mentioned in Corbyn's speech. I think that they are playing the government at their own game. HTB is seen as altruistic by the naive and it also helps to pacify the house builders.  I believe in general Labour's approach to housing policy is to play the game based on the narratives such as shortage of supply but they know very what the real underlying factors are.

We all know how toxic discussions of housing based on the true facts are when people generally believe the nonsense narratives. It would be dumb of them to fight on these terms. Better to do like everyone else, not upset anyone and then like all governments throw away the manifesto and do as they please.

Edited by Sawitcoming

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The government more than happy to continue supporting insane levels of debt just for a roof over your head. Genuinely disgusting. Unless you have very strong ties to the UK you'd be a fool to not have a Plan B that involves leaving the country.

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This cynical scheme creates a twin track market...new build prices being inflated due to the inelasticity of new build supply.  It isn't difficult to work out a fundamental flaw with the scheme...when those that have used the scheme come to sell the prospective buyers can't take advantage of the scheme and so the sale will fall into the lower priced second hand stock market and sell at a loss.

I have no idea why the current Conservative government have come out with more support for this insane scheme, I had hoped it would be binned.  I have no doubt that this is going to come back to haunt them for years to come...it is a disaster in the making, any fool can see that.  I am no socialist but the Conservatives can forget about my vote...no way would I vote for them on account of this scheme alone.

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Just now, sPinwheel said:

For the yoof vote innit.

are they really so stupid...?  Can't they see this scheme for what it is...?

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On 10/1/2017 at 12:12 PM, GreenDevil said:

Correct me if im wrong. HTB is still active and people can still get support buying at 25% inflated prices. House prices are starting to fall because they are too high, inflation is roaring away and household budgets are squeezed. What difference will HTB extension make to this? Nothing. 

As for next election. The only way to be sure of a monumental crash is to vote corbyn at the next election. He has my vote.

Not sure about that - there will probably be a run on the pound with capital flight if Corbyn wins but he will increase debt and spend more, it might be enough to avoid a crash (as per Steve Keen's argument).

Tory "austerity" will definitely usher in a crash by reducing debt. 

Either way, HPCers are sitting pretty!

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48 minutes ago, Wayward said:

This cynical scheme creates a twin track market...new build prices being inflated due to the inelasticity of new build supply.  It isn't difficult to work out a fundamental flaw with the scheme...when those that have used the scheme come to sell the prospective buyers can't take advantage of the scheme and so the sale will fall into the lower priced second hand stock market and sell at a loss.

I have no idea why the current Conservative government have come out with more support for this insane scheme, I had hoped it would be binned.  I have no doubt that this is going to come back to haunt them for years to come...it is a disaster in the making, any fool can see that.  I am no socialist but the Conservatives can forget about my vote...no way would I vote for them on account of this scheme alone.

I cant speak for the south but in the north HTB estates are really just glorified council estates.HAs buy so much at the start,the "affordable housing" bit,10%/20% whatever.Then over time the same HA keeps buying ones that come on the market.Sold at £130k,HA pays £130k,often renting back to the same people.Over time these estates end up being 50% social housing.

When i was a councillor it was always pushed to slip in some benefit families onto new build estates because the idea was seeing all the other people work they would change their ways,rather than put them all together in sink estates.There was some merit in that,but not for the people taking the risk of paying out for new builds only to find the family from hell move in next door.My daughters mum and her partner bought on a new estate a few years ago.The HA moved in a terrible family who ended up threatening everyone in the close.One family were so scared they ended up moving before they sold the house and ended up almost bankrupt.He threatened my 8 year old daughter.The ironic thing was he didnt know it was my daughter (i knew them) and when i went down to see the ex about it my tyre touched his grass and he came out the house shouting and screaming.It was the last time he threatened them put it that way.

HTB is council houses dressed up so people vote Tory.I would go anywhere near buying on an estate that uses it.

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56 minutes ago, Wayward said:

are they really so stupid...?  Can't they see this scheme for what it is...?

Of course they are. It seems obvious support for builders to us but seems like altruism to them. Do they want affordability? No. They want their turn on the HPI gravy train. 

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58 minutes ago, Wayward said:

are they really so stupid...?  Can't they see this scheme for what it is...?

No they can't. They honestly think Help to Buy is a good thing going by my facebook/twitter. People are asking me why I'm against it when I've complained about not being to buy a house for years and cannot see even when I explain to them. How can something called, "Help to buy" that helps you buy a house be a bad thing? They don't look at the cost, they just want to buy a house, you must buy a house, their parents bought a house, why would you not buy a house if someone gives you some "free" money?

I'm not longer the nutter who complained houses were too high I'm now the nutter that complained and now the government have done something has complained about it. The government are winning :(

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People really are that stupid. If you know someone using the scheme, ask them what they'll do when they sell it. Specifically, who will they sell it to? Because at the moment they can't afford it without government help. So unless HTB runs indefinitely, they'll have to sell to someone quite a bit richer than them - and likely in a period of higher interest rates. So good luck with that. Add on the fact it'll be "used" so can't command a premium for being all new and shiny.

It'll end in tears for a significant number of people that use HTB.

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24 minutes ago, BeyondAJoke said:

People really are that stupid. If you know someone using the scheme, ask them what they'll do when they sell it. Specifically, who will they sell it to? Because at the moment they can't afford it without government help. So unless HTB runs indefinitely, they'll have to sell to someone quite a bit richer than them - and likely in a period of higher interest rates. So good luck with that. Add on the fact it'll be "used" so can't command a premium for being all new and shiny.

It'll end in tears for a significant number of people that use HTB.

Work colleague, Engineer, has just committed himself (single) to a new build 3 bed flat next to Sudbury & Harrow Road station (Parkside Place), £540,000 including the parking space, that's a max mortgage of £300k (by fiddling overtime through a mortgage broker charging a £500 fee), deposit of 30k, and HTB loan for the rest.

He believes prices will accelerate astronomically over the next 5 years, and if he doesn't jump in now he never will due to his age. Yup...:rolleyes:

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5 minutes ago, Barnsey said:

Work colleague, Engineer, has just committed himself (single) to a new build 3 bed flat next to Sudbury & Harrow Road station (Parkside Place), £540,000 including the parking space, that's a max mortgage of £300k (by fiddling overtime through a mortgage broker charging a £500 fee), deposit of 30k, and HTB loan for the rest.

He believes prices will accelerate astronomically over the next 5 years, and if he doesn't jump in now he never will due to his age. Yup...:rolleyes:

Ouch, that's painful to read. It's almost forgivable for those buying something modest (yet over-priced) because they're having kids or whatever. But massively over-buying using government support in the hopes of making a profit. I imagine in 5 years he'll be in the exact opposite position to what he anticipates.

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40 minutes ago, BeyondAJoke said:

People really are that stupid. If you know someone using the scheme, ask them what they'll do when they sell it. Specifically, who will they sell it to? Because at the moment they can't afford it without government help. So unless HTB runs indefinitely, they'll have to sell to someone quite a bit richer than them - and likely in a period of higher interest rates. So good luck with that. Add on the fact it'll be "used" so can't command a premium for being all new and shiny.

It'll end in tears for a significant number of people that use HTB.

The next mis-selling scandal? Maybe they'll all get compensated/bailed out by yet another round of money printing?

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Desperate for the loan borrow the ppi........ desperate for the home borrow the help to get you into more debt....add it on to the 6% student debt.;)

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11 minutes ago, BeyondAJoke said:

Ouch, that's painful to read. It's almost forgivable for those buying something modest (yet over-priced) because they're having kids or whatever. But massively over-buying using government support in the hopes of making a profit. I imagine in 5 years he'll be in the exact opposite position to what he anticipates.

Very much the SE England mentality, even other slightly more sensible friends/colleagues have jumped in and you can see the joy in their faces when they see how much their "estimated" property price has gone up, despite mainly buying because of a kid on the way etc. Easy money making clouds the herd mentality mind. They used to be with me regarding prices taking a hit, now it's "prices might just go up with inflation now so you'll be ok, have you heard about HTB/shared ownership?".

I'm just the saddo moaning about high prices and still renting all these years later, very much in the minority now at work but proud to be.

Edited by Barnsey

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13 minutes ago, RentingForever said:

The next mis-selling scandal? Maybe they'll all get compensated/bailed out by yet another round of money printing?

There'll definitely be "victims" from this. People like the chap in Barnsey's example crying to the Daily Mail that instead of making the 10% per year he expected, he's actually in negative equity! I really want to say they'll get what they deserve, but recent history suggests they'll be largely insulated from their mistakes.

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58 minutes ago, BeyondAJoke said:

There'll definitely be "victims" from this. People like the chap in Barnsey's example crying to the Daily Mail that instead of making the 10% per year he expected, he's actually in negative equity! I really want to say they'll get what they deserve, but recent history suggests they'll be largely insulated from their mistakes.

The banks have been insulated from their mistakes, the British government will nto be insulating the people, guaranteed.

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5 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

The banks have been insulated from their mistakes, the British government will nto be insulating the people, guaranteed.

Pretending to insulate people is really insulating the banks. SMI etc. prevents forced sales and props up the value of assets that banks hold.

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London bubble is beyond insane.

Leasehold is the greatest scam this country has ever invented.

Its leftover practice form colonial era on how to successfully loot people while making them feel they are gaining something.

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3 hours ago, Wayward said:

This cynical scheme creates a twin track market...new build prices being inflated due to the inelasticity of new build supply.  It isn't difficult to work out a fundamental flaw with the scheme...when those that have used the scheme come to sell the prospective buyers can't take advantage of the scheme and so the sale will fall into the lower priced second hand stock market and sell at a loss.

 

it is basically a scrappage scheme for overpriced cr*p built housing .  anyone buying a new build and using this scheme needs a mri scan. maybe if the developer knocked 30% off the price and then use the scheme it might make sense :lol: i might try that.

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On 01/10/2017 at 7:06 AM, rantnrave said:

Arent we also due the bleatings from the muppets who first took out Help to Buy in 2013 and now realise they have two mortgages to pay off on their cruddy newbuild and werent infact helped at all.

Someone at work bought in 2013. His wife is now due to give birth very soon and her job is going as the office is shutting down.

It should be 2018 where the yearly 1.75% interest fees start kicking in on the equity loan. 

 

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London estate agent in W4...

"warns that isn’t just something for estate agents to worry about. He says, “Should turnover continue at these present levels then there is going to be a significant glut of new build property languishing un-sold on the open market which will be damaging to the short term fortunes of London housebuilders, probably causing them to ‘mothball’ future schemes which in turn could have a real negative impact on employment in the construction industry and finally hamper the wider economy. “

 

I added the bold emphasis....

This is the purpose of Help to Buy.  If it can't sell on the open market, don't reduce the price. Instead add a government subsidy of 40%. The term "open market" made me laugh though. What sort of open market relies on that level of government subsidy? Even in the bad old days of EU Common Agricultural Policy and butter mountains there was less intervention. 

 

 

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  • 242 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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