Woodburners in Islington

[juvenal]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4931808/Now-wood-burning-stoves-banned-radical-laws.html

Did I hear aright? Sadiq Khan is to ban wood burning stoves in London...

House prices falling and we've just had a woodburner installed in our London house?

Clarissa - are we living in Stalin's Russia for god's sake?!!!

[Bossybabe]

He isn’t banning the ‘clean burn’ ones, so calm down, dear. 

[Errol]

Research showed that on some heavy polluting days (in certain conditions), wood burning accounted for near to 50% of the pollution.

[Sledgehead]

Well, I fully support him. I hope they ban all these polluting, inefficient, inappropriate anachronisms. Just so you know where I stand.

[Sledgehead]

1 minute ago, Errol said:

Research showed that on some heavy polluting days (in certain conditions), wood burning accounted for near to 50% of the pollution.

Yeah, I read some of this research recently, largely to p*ss off smugg tw@ts on MSE.

All sorts of lovely stats out there that Tarquin and Clarrisa just hate hearing.

The BMJ produced a paper - great stuff and an immense source of fun for those who like to bait the upper middle classes at dinner parties:

2.4 times more PM2.5 pollution from domestic wood burning than traffic

Quote

Few people who install wood stoves are likely to understand that a single log-burning stove permitted in smokeless zones emits more PM2.5 per year than 1,000 petrol cars and has estimated health costs in urban areas of thousands of pounds per year.

 

[chronyx]

Emissions control devices on a woodburning stove: 0 (Excluding the chimney)

[juvenal]

But Pippa and I have just ordered a ton of artisan-cut, hand-seasoned apple wood logs from a little man in Sussex! 

What's happening to this country!

[dougless]

In all seriousness they have been cited as causing as much, or more, pollution in London than those damn dirty 'cheating' Diesels.

Is he going to pick on Hipsters next - Beards, tattoos and single speed bikes.

[Orsino]

I didn't even realise wood burning stoves were legal in London. I find it incredible that they are. I suspect that many of the idiots who own them also drive 4x4s on the Islington school run. 

The only people who should be allowed such stoves in London should be barge owners, and they should be the least polluting variety.

[Errol]

1 hour ago, juvenal said:

But Pippa and I have just ordered a ton of artisan-cut, hand-seasoned apple wood logs from a little man in Sussex! 

What's happening to this country!

You have to order yourself? I leave all such things to my Valet. He also makes the fires and tends to them as required.

[Sledgehead]

55 minutes ago, Errol said:

You have to order yourself? I leave all such things to my Valet. He also makes the fires and tends to them as required.

Oh, come on, stop pretending it's your idea. Jemima has banned me from making up the fire too.

Still, she's visiting friends at Lake Como at the weekend and I've sent my man shopping for parts for the E-Type 'up north'. I'll have the place to myself for once. Tubby, Chummy, Brewster and Pibbsy are primed for a call to rendezvous at my place as soon as the coast is clear. We intend to spend the whole day taking turns lighting the wood burner, toasting marsh-mallows and crumpets and singing old songs from our scouting days. Bloody good fun. Can't wait!

[juvenal]

59 minutes ago, Sledgehead said:

Oh, come on, stop pretending it's your idea. Jemima has banned me from making up the fire too.

Still, she's visiting friends at Lake Como at the weekend and I've sent my man shopping for parts for the E-Type 'up north'. I'll have the place to myself for once. Tubby, Chummy, Brewster and Pibbsy are primed for a call to rendezvous at my place as soon as the coast is clear. We intend to spend the whole day taking turns lighting the wood burner, toasting marsh-mallows and crumpets and singing old songs from our scouting days. Bloody good fun. Can't wait!

Pibbsy! What a card! I remember him and Boris throwing up over the Dean's garden wall in Oxford. Do you recall the night we celebrated his Pass degree? Is he still on the board at his father's bank?

[reddog]

Quite a laugh really, wood burning stoves are banned in London, but Drax power station is converted to wood burning on environmental grounds.

[Sledgehead]

6 hours ago, juvenal said:

Pibbsy! What a card! I remember him and Boris throwing up over the Dean's garden wall in Oxford. Do you recall the night we celebrated his pass degree? Is he still on the board at his father's bank?

Afraid not old boy. He had to take a 'sabbatical'. If you recall, he got hitched to Olivia Smythe-Reisen, daughter of old man Reisen, the bank's biggest client, which was all fine and dandy, until Pibbsy was accused of posting scrolls with a lad in the mail room. Huge misunderstanding, of course. Can't say I ever noticed anything out of the ordinary during more than a dozen or so times Pibbsy and I played the toast game up in his room overlooking the rugger practice grounds. But mud sticks. Olivia was beside herself, poor old thing. Old man Reisen was incandescent. Wanted to set about Pibbsy with a pair of bricks. He settled for Pibbsy's exile to St.Kitts with Olivia - . give them a chance to work on their marriage. Without distractions of the bank. And its mail room.

Still, he's back for the weekend - don't tell old man Reisen. Or the press. Will be great to catch up. Boys all back together again. It'll be just like old times ...

... wonder whether I should add toast to the marsh mallows and crumpets ...

[ExiledMatty]

Hope they do ban them, and in Surbiton too. That would be one up all the middle class snobs who are trying to live The Good Life.

[winkie]

3 hours ago, ExiledMatty said:

Hope they do ban them, and in Surbiton too. That would be one up all the middle class snobs who are trying to live The Good Life.

A wood burner the good life.....

[Ash4781]

When I looked at these the payback period was massive (unless you could source cheap wood). Though oddly when added to a house they 'added value'. When I spoke the estate agent he was like yeah I know it's ****** but people like them! Sort of like twigs in vases effect!

 I have see a few 1970s houses on rightmove where they added a freestanding chimney flue to a wood burner in the living room. These were houses with gas central heating, double glazing and cavity walls.

[juvenal]

11 hours ago, Sledgehead said:

Afraid not old boy. He had to take a 'sabbatical'. If you recall, he got hitched to Olivia Smythe-Reisen, daughter of old man Reisen, the bank's biggest client, which was all fine and dandy, until Pibbsy was accused of posting scrolls with a lad in the mail room. Huge misunderstanding, of course. Can't say I ever noticed anything out of the ordinary during more than a dozen or so times Pibbsy and I played the toast game up in his room overlooking the rugger practice grounds. But mud sticks. Olivia was beside herself, poor old thing. Old man Reisen was incandescent. Wanted to set about Pibbsy with a pair of bricks. He settled for Pibbsy's exile to St.Kitts with Olivia - . give them a chance to work on their marriage. Without distractions of the bank. And its mail room.

Still, he's back for the weekend - don't tell old man Reisen. Or the press. Will be great to catch up. Boys all back together again. It'll be just like old times ...

... wonder whether I should add toast to the marsh mallows and crumpets ...

Good Lord! Trust Pibbsey to have such a colourful career! But his heart was always in the right place. He once told me if he ever came across that dreadful cove Corbyn he would hand him a damn good drubbing!  

The bush telegraph tells me Tubby has been on the Gwyneth Paltrow diet and one would hardly recognise him nowadays. Just as well after that mortgage fraud business. Let's hope Interpol haven't got a recent photograph of him.

[Kurt Barlow]

16 hours ago, reddog said:

Quite a laugh really, wood burning stoves are banned in London, but Drax power station is converted to wood burning on environmental grounds.

At least Drax has the pollution control equipment (not that I support converting DRAX to burning wood chip).

[Kurt Barlow]

1 hour ago, Ash4781 said:

When I looked at these the payback period was massive (unless you could source cheap wood). Though oddly when added to a house they 'added value'. When I spoke the estate agent he was like yeah I know it's ****** but people like them! Sort of like twigs in vases effect!

 I have see a few 1970s houses on rightmove where they added a freestanding chimney flue to a wood burner in the living room. These were houses with gas central heating, double glazing and cavity walls.

I put one in my house in 2009 for about 1600 quid. EA reckoned it added at least 5k to the value.

I had an unlimited supply of free wood providing I collected it.

[frankief]

OK, I see where burning somebody's old furniture found in a a skip  could be a problem.

But aren't these modern burners efficient if you use the right fuel - eg wood pellets or smokeless coke type stuff?

The trouble is gas is so expensive and the Govt. doesn't seem to be able to control it going up, apart from giving advice that 'you can switch tarriffs if you like'

A lot of people swear by their wood burner as being able to warm their house better & cheaper than central heating. Don't know if that is true.

Wouldn't Mr Khan be better lobbying the Govt. to do something about fuel prices?

[Sledgehead]

2 hours ago, frankief said:

The trouble is gas is so expensive and the Govt. doesn't seem to be able to control it going up, apart from giving advice that 'you can switch tarriffs if you like'

 

Firstly, gas is not expensive at all. Wholesale gas prices make up less than half your bill.

Secondly, government is absolutely able to control your gas bill. A quarter of the bill is entirely down to government levies and taxes.

Thirdly, nobody includes transportation costs, neither monetary, nor environmental, when considering the 'cheapness' of wood. This cost is automatically included in your gas bill under network costs and makes up about a fifth of your bill. Why assume it is zero for wood?

Fourthly, nobody considers the cost of storage of wood, even in cities, where square foot rental costs exceed £50/ft^2 pa. A usable pile might be 3 to 4m^3. That's 33 to 44 ft^2. If you leased it as office space that would pull in about £1,500 to £2,000 per annum. This storage cost is automatically included in your gas bill, again under network costs. Again, why assume it is zero for wood?

Fifthly, people are ignoring the health costs of emissions, which, in urban areas, the BMJ reckon run to "thousands of pounds per year". Burning gas produces no such issues, as natural gas is desulphurized and scrubbed. This cost is included in your gas bill. Why assume it is zero for wood?

Sixthly, because burning wood creates particulates and vapourised tars, flu sweeping is a necessity - sources say at least twice a year depending on use, if chimney emissions are to be controlled. Costs run around £100 to £200 each time. Burning gas in a bog standard CH boiler produces neither particulates nor tar, cos the gas supplier makes sure it's clean. This cost is included in your gas bill. But wood burner fans never include sweeping costs in their wood-burning price assessment. Why? Presumably because they are happy to let their flues become filthy.

As you can imagine, I could waffle on all day about the hidden costs - decor impact for instance - but what's the point? Why? Cos at the end of the day, the vast majority having these things installed aren't the blind bit worried about costs. It's all about lifestyle, and whatever that costs is quite irrelevant. And that includes the cost to your lifestyle.

[sexton]

"Sixthly, because burning wood creates particulates and vapourised tars, flu sweeping is a necessity - sources say at least twice a year depending on use, if chimney emissions are to be controlled. Costs run around £100 to £200 each time."

Do mine once a year with a brush and a cannonball on a rope. It takes about half an hour in total and produces less than a bucket full of soot. We heat the whole house with the wood stove and burn mostly birch. 

[Sledgehead]

8 hours ago, sexton said:

"Sixthly, because burning wood creates particulates and vapourised tars, flu sweeping is a necessity - sources say at least twice a year depending on use, if chimney emissions are to be controlled. Costs run around £100 to £200 each time."

Do mine once a year with a brush and a cannonball on a rope. It takes about half an hour in total and produces less than a bucket full of soot. We heat the whole house with the wood stove and burn mostly birch. 

Well, I'm sure if the gas industry were allowed to rely on its users to handle impurities in natural gas, the wholesale price could be cheaper, but gas futures contracts are standardized and regulated. And that makes it certified clean. How can I be sure your flu is clean enough?

Don't get me wrong. I'm no fan of regs, but my post was a result of talk about relative costs. Gas is only costly because of taxes, levies, operating expenses and regulations. And they are all either avoided, ignored or side-stepped by wood burning. If you want to talk costs, you must have a level playing field.

By the way, "less than a bucket of soot" sounds like quite a lot. And that's the stuff that was so big it couldn't make it outta the flue.

Quote

After investigating 29 European countries, Analitis (10) found that respiratory mortality increased by 0.58% for every 10 µg/m³ increase of PM10. It was recently reported that the prevalence rate of respiratory diseases increased by 2.07%, while hospitalization rate raised by 8% accordingly, when the daily PM2.5 increased by 10 µg/m³ (11,12). - The impact of PM2.5 on the human respiratory system

I reckon with the right tech, a sufficiently twisted mind could turn your flue soot into a WMD!

 

[Sledgehead]

7 hours ago, juvenal said:

Good Lord! Trust Pibbsey to have such a colourful career! But his heart was always in the right place. He once told me if he ever came across that dreadful cove Corbyn he would hand him a damn good drubbing!  

The bush telegraph tells me Tubby has been on the Gwyneth Paltrow diet and one would hardly recognise him nowadays. Just as well after that mortgage fraud business. Let's hope Interpol haven't got a recent photograph of him.

Gwyneth Paltrow diet? If you are offering seconds!

But seriously, is that what he's telling people? Maybe. That and the unintended aversion therapy Tabitha metes out. He tells me, without more warning than a glint in those gorgeous emerald peepers, she'll slip him a Mickey Finn of an evening. He'll wake up, starkers, gagged and hog-tied to his grandfather's old grand tour trunk, with Tabitha straddling him with those firm thighs, tugging at his chops, accusing him of being "a very naughty boy" for eating all the pudding.

"You lucky b@stard!" was my initial thinking. That's until he showed me her growing collection of strap-ons. And when I say "growing".... well, let's just say we're well past a baby's arm.

Now he can't so much as be in a room with a skinny crepe, let alone a decent sized bowl of the Mess. Brings him out in a cold sweat and makes his eyes water at the thought.

No chap deserves being put off his food like that.

Having said that: Tabitha .. phwoar ... can't help but think, given the invitation and a decent sized tub of vaseline ....