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Si1

The implicit belief that govt should not and will not let house prices fall, and the "what a wally" gambit that follows.

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This is very much Venger's turf, but I have come across it a few times recently on other corners of the web.

It seems so wholly obvious to many people, perhaps the average Joe, that the govt has your back if you but a house, that you are challenging basic morals to suggest the opposite, to the point of being laughed at, especially if you suggest that such a situation is dangerous to the economy. (Camoron has a lot to answer for here.

 

Anyone else seeing this protect-the-innocents-they-had-to-do-it-guv'nor attitude? Is it all pervasive?

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Why is this so hard for people to understand. Governments don't give two turds about morals. They persue policies that garner the most votes.

The Tories are prime examples. Why anyone thinks they believe in free markets is bizarre. For a long time governments have pandered to those who feel good about house price rises because it was electorally beneficial. It will continue until it isn't anymore - probably when the boomers are too weak or dead to go out and vote....

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11 minutes ago, sPinwheel said:

Why is this so hard for people to understand. Governments don't give two turds about morals. They persue policies that garner the most votes.

The Tories are prime examples. Why anyone thinks they believe in free markets is bizarre. For a long time governments have pandered to those who feel good about house price rises because it was electorally beneficial. It will continue until it isn't anymore - probably when the boomers are too weak or dead to go out and vote....

This, pretty much.

Historically governments looked after home owners because that's where all the votes were.

I think now we are at the see-saw tipping point, where there is now more votes on the other side.. hence seeing the Tories 'scramble' to find policies that appeal to the young/renters after the 2017 election.  

So the political power has probably swung the over way - hence T.May and Spreadsheet Phil not reversing any of Osborne's measures on S24 and Stamp Duty; in the 'good old days' of only home owners mattering, they probably would have got rid of some of these to prop up their base.

But now they need to reach out to a different base to stay relevant, so think homeowners/house prices are probably no longer going to be supported like they might have been in times past.

Edited by london_thirtythree

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25 minutes ago, Si1 said:

This is very much Venger's turf, but I have come across it a few times recently on other corners of the web.

It seems so wholly obvious to many people, perhaps the average Joe, that the govt has your back if you but a house, that you are challenging basic morals to suggest the opposite, to the point of being laughed at, especially if you suggest that such a situation is dangerous to the economy. (Camoron has a lot to answer for here.

 

Anyone else seeing this protect-the-innocents-they-had-to-do-it-guv'nor attitude? Is it all pervasive?

I think it is everywhere. Not on here, but everywhere else.

I think it's follow-the-money when trying to get a handle on it all. Didn't that book Rich Dad, Poor Dad describe those who "outright owned their properties free and clear" in California as at one stage thinking they had it made, only to discover that when it needed more taxes, the State Government brought in a new Property Wealth Tax, so a load of these asset/rich folks then got properly screwed?

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2 minutes ago, london_thirtythree said:

This, pretty much.

Historically governments looked after home owners because that's where all the votes were.

I think now we are at the see-saw tipping point, where there is now more votes on the other side.. hence seeing the Tories 'scramble' to find policies that appeal to the young/renters after the 2017 election.  

So the political power has probably swung the over way - hence T.May and Spreadsheet Phil not reversing any of Osborne's measures on S24 and Stamp Duty; in the 'good old days' of only home owners mattering, they probably would have got rid of some of these to prop up their base.

But now they need to reach out to a different base to stay relevant, so think homeowners/house prices are probably no longer going to be supported like they might have been in times past.

Indeed. This just prompted a minor thought. 

Thatcher wanted to sell off the social housing because she said it creates labour voters. Now we have private renters turning to Labour. Could this have been a genius ploy by Blair / Brown? Please the Tory voters by making them all landlords. Please the Banks by giving them a market. All the while creating a large underclass that will turn to Labour?

I really doubt it, but an interesting outcome nonetheless.

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think it's more to do with banks afraid of being valued at mark to market vs mark to fantasy. We'll see the lay of the land when Interest only etc mortgages become due, will banks then become landlords to avoid selling ? 

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As a counter point, I've heard a similar notion phrased in a more persuasive way - align your interests with those in power and you can be sure you'll be looked after.

Given that property (land) is the biggest store of wealth in the country then you can be sure that the powers that be will be tugging on the levers to preserve their wealth. Hence, own property and you can be sure that, in the long run, it'll store your wealth.

(I'm not going to defend that position as I can see the flaws in the argument a mile off, but it's an idea that can easily gain traction).

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It’s our never ending race for STUFF, sod the planet, sod morals or the common good.. I’m actually convinced that increasing our population has vastly increased our intolerance of others.. and why not, after all I used to get to work in 30 mins now it’s 1hour 30m.. 2 extra hours a day away from my family.. I have a reason to dislike everyone else and therefore why should I care if they live in squalor.. 

I see this in the recent Ubar ban, when it was mentioned that there are 46 pontential rapes, Uber don’t pay UK tax and drivers are not correctly screened.. the overwhelming response was “What about my cheap cab ride home!”  

Dont care about rape or taxes just about my own self importance and requirements..

the more the population expands, the more the intolerance will grow.. remain voters don’t get that, they can protest against it, but the status’s quo will grow not subside, the country is getting worse not better, and remaining in the EU, continuing with the same policies will lead to further hate, and further anger! 

Hence im alright jack is now our new moral code! 

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do you think they really care about voting for tories or voting for labour ? it`s what is best for the individual MP at the end of the day. 

selfishness will alway come first .  MP`s own houses lots of them. THATS IT.  They got rich off their own policies, all you had to do was copy them  but hold back the greed and have a backup plan when the worm turns the other way politically i.e presume what they will do. 

sickening how many multimillionaires have been made off the back of the sick twisted policies of these kunts. 

 

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On a slightly different tack, it occurred to me that apart from about a year from 2015 the Tories haven't really been in power since 1997. You would have thought they would have been fed up by now, but oh no that genious May decides to call an election and lose a few seats.

So now they realise May is hopeless but they can't decide who to replace her with.(let's face it the choice isn't great).

But as usual this lot are a bit slow in realising what people really want.

Corbyn might even get in at this rate.

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28 minutes ago, anonlymouse said:

As a counter point, I've heard a similar notion phrased in a more persuasive way - align your interests with those in power and you can be sure you'll be looked after.

I agree with this....in wanting a hpc we want the rich and powerful to lose wealth and power...do you think they will volunteer...of course not. The hpc will come when they lose control...

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Massive Vote Bank ... Generation Rent some of whome Renting till the age of 45 .... Also Bankers that virtually DICTATE goverments are in Risky territory when they have to Lend 4 times Gross Annual Income... Currently down south property is ranging from 10-15 times that. Also the goverment has to hike rates ad REAL Inflation EXCEEDS 10%... The reason behind the bubble is BTL Sharks with foreign Black money...

 

 

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I agree with what has already been posted but to the british getting rich through property is almost their version of the "American dream". 

As well as your job,  owning a property in the right area is a key component of middle class status. Looking after homeowners is also seen as looking after the middle class. During the financial crisis someone who worked for the treasury told me there was no way hundreds of thousands of middle class people would be repossessed. This wasnt part of some conspiracy theory, inside knowledge or great insight on his part, just that the thought of it happening  was unthinkable to the establishment.

Now that globalisation and technological innovation has started to effect middle class wages, pensions and job security( just as it did to the working class), having a university degree isnt what it was, plus a massive increase in personal debt, people have put even more faith into property prices going up forever. When saving is something people did in the 1950s and all of their wages goes to service the mortgage, what else is there?

If/ when there is a housing crash,as well as the obvious financial impact, I think we will see a huge existential crisis that will make brexit seem like a walk in the park.

 

 

 

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57 minutes ago, Wayward said:

I agree with this....in wanting a hpc we want the rich and powerful to lose wealth and power...do you think they will volunteer...of course not. The hpc will come when they lose control...

They are not in control. They are in business and the business is the business of manufacturing the illusion of control.

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6 minutes ago, Beary McBearface said:

They are not in control. They are in business and the business is the business of manufacturing the illusion of control.

Wise words. Perception is reality.

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54 minutes ago, nothernsoul said:

 

If/ when there is a housing crash,as well as the obvious financial impact, I think we will see a huge existential crisis that will make brexit seem like a walk in the park.

 

 

 

I think you're right and a lot of people won't know what hit them as their lives change direction really quickly.

It what Mike Tyson once said, Everybody's got a plan, 'til they get punched in the face.

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When there is a house price crash, the number of people benefiting (generation x, y, z, millenials, whatever they call them/us) may well outnumber those who believe they have lost out (boomers). Tories tend to want to maintain status quo, or at least prevent riots ... so a house price crash might be a good thing for them.

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42 minutes ago, Grab_Some_Popcorn said:

When there is a house price crash, the number of people benefiting (generation x, y, z, millenials, whatever they call them/us) may well outnumber those who believe they have lost out (boomers). Tories tend to want to maintain status quo, or at least prevent riots ... so a house price crash might be a good thing for them.

That may be true but according to another thread on here. The number of private renter's will only equal the number of mortgagees in 2024 so this could be a while off yet as the demographics move very slowly. 

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11 hours ago, Sawitcoming said:

Indeed. This just prompted a minor thought. 

Thatcher wanted to sell off the social housing because she said it creates labour voters. Now we have private renters turning to Labour. Could this have been a genius ploy by Blair / Brown? Please the Tory voters by making them all landlords. Please the Banks by giving them a market. All the while creating a large underclass that will turn to Labour?

I really doubt it, but an interesting outcome nonetheless.

Killed two birds with stone. They allowed prices to rise which bought votes. Then they allowed those with property to remortgage to buy-to-let, which bought them a growing hoard of future votes....... potentially.

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Tories have the perfect excuse in Brexit to allow a HPC and deflect criticism from themselves. They had a great opportunity in 2010 to blame Labour and the GFC for falling house prices, but they bottled it and reinflated the bubble to win in 2015. With FLS, HTB etc, Osborne may have won that battle for the Tories but lost them a war.

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12 hours ago, Si1 said:

This is very much Venger's turf, but I have come across it a few times recently on other corners of the web.

It seems so wholly obvious to many people, perhaps the average Joe, that the govt has your back if you but a house, that you are challenging basic morals to suggest the opposite, to the point of being laughed at, especially if you suggest that such a situation is dangerous to the economy. (Camoron has a lot to answer for here.

 

Anyone else seeing this protect-the-innocents-they-had-to-do-it-guv'nor attitude? Is it all pervasive?

Well, they are just looking at the evidence so far in which they would be correct, the Tories have not only not let prices fall, they have actively encouraged them to increase wildly in price.

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  • 293 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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