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Boris calling for property tax on foreign buyers

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Apparently Boris's latest Torygraph piece pitching to be PM pitch calls for a tax on foreign buyers of property. Suggests has been discussed in Cabinet already and May / Hammond  have ruled it out.

It's paywall and I would sooner subscribe to the DAily Mail. Would be helpful if someone could quote.. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/15/boris-johnson-vision-bold-thriving-britain-enabled-brexit/

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Hipocrite moi?

Boris would be a hilarious failure as Tory leader. Any sane minded non public school boy, and many who did go to public school, will take one look at him and think 'tw@t'. He would be like Neil Kinnock on acid.

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Just now, juvenal said:

Is this the same Boris who airily described London property as just another 'asset class'?

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-is-boris-johnson-talking-about-london-needs-new-homes-not-assets-8897202.html

Indeed. Total opportunistic hipocrite. He can f#ck off, about as much integrity as David Cameron.

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How do you even decide who is a 'foreign' buyer anyway. Nearly half of Londoners were born abroad - and you can always put it through someone else.

One third of the empty homes in central London are actually in the two lowest council tax bands - essentially studio and one bed council and low end flats. Why not get them into use.

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19 hours ago, PropertyMania said:

Apparently Boris's latest Torygraph piece pitching to be PM pitch calls for a tax on foreign buyers of property. Suggests has been discussed in Cabinet already and May / Hammond  have ruled it out.

It's paywall and I would sooner subscribe to the DAily Mail. Would be helpful if someone could quote.. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/15/boris-johnson-vision-bold-thriving-britain-enabled-brexit/

Full scumbag speech here: https://behindthepaywallblog.wordpress.com/2017/09/16/boris-johnson-my-vision-for-a-bold-thriving-britain-enabled-by-brexit/

edit: think this is the closest he gets to mentioning a tax on foreign owners of homes - goes as far as saying it's possible:

Quote

It is often pointed out that the price of housing in certain parts of London may be pushed up by buyers from overseas. But there is no point in putting any kind of tax on foreign buyers, because the inhabitants of 27 other countries cannot legally be treated as foreign.

No one would want a tax that discouraged international investment and stopped good developments from happening. No one would want to send a signal that the London market was closed. But it would at least be possible to have the argument. That is what we mean by taking back control.

 

Edited by Guest

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4 hours ago, MARTINX9 said:

How do you even decide who is a 'foreign' buyer anyway. Nearly half of Londoners were born abroad - and you can always put it through someone else.

One third of the empty homes in central London are actually in the two lowest council tax bands - essentially studio and one bed council and low end flats. Why not get them into use.

London has some of the lowest charges for same council tax bands in the country.....the highest cost homes have the lowest cost in council tax.......I believe it was true that foreign buyers could work it so they did not pay stamp duty whereas a resident has to.....;)

Edited by winkie

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5 hours ago, MARTINX9 said:

How do you even decide who is a 'foreign' buyer anyway. Nearly half of Londoners were born abroad - and you can always put it through someone else.

One third of the empty homes in central London are actually in the two lowest council tax bands - essentially studio and one bed council and low end flats. Why not get them into use.

Why do you feel the need to write 'foreigner'? It isn't a pretend word.

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4 hours ago, ThoughtCriminal said:

Rather disingenuous to misrepresent Johnson from that Independent article. Nowhere does he say it's good that it's an asset class.

Prejudice against Johnson is one thing but stay honest.

Nowhere does anyone on this thread say that he said it's a good thing AFAICS. He simply doesn't care.

What would be the correct term for prejudice against Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson? Etonianism? Bullingdonism?

Edited by Guest
corrected Johnson's proper name

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3 minutes ago, highYield said:

Nowhere does anyone on this thread say that he said it's a good thing AFAICS. He simply doesn't care.

What would be the correct term for prejudice against Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson? Etonianism? Bullingdonism?

Danial Hannan puts his finger on why many are prejudiced against Boris:

What particularly irks his critics is that Boris is, in their eyes, a class traitor. Clever, multilingual and educated partly in Brussels, he is someone Continuity Remainers feel ought to have been one of them. They can dismiss most of the 52 per cent as bigots and dimwits, but Boris infuriates them. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/17/europhiles-really-despise-boris-johnson-irrepressible-cheerfulness/)

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1 minute ago, onlooker said:

Danial Hannan puts his finger on why many are prejudiced against Boris:

What particularly irks his critics is that Boris is, in their eyes, a class traitor. Clever, multilingual and educated partly in Brussels, he is someone Continuity Remainers feel ought to have been one of them. They can dismiss most of the 52 per cent as bigots and dimwits, but Boris infuriates them. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/17/europhiles-really-despise-boris-johnson-irrepressible-cheerfulness/)

He's kind of the inverse Tony Benn? Hopefully so.

Seems like a smart guy masquerading as a buffoon for power. 

Personally, my original prejudice against Jonson is based on reading his 70 Virgins novel - it was OK, but there was one paragraph that stopped me, and struck me that the author was at heart a facist. 

Happy to try and find it, or order 2nd hand if anyone would like me to try and dig this up. May take some time....

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It is a fair question to ask how do the government determine who is a foreign buyer. 

In Vancouver....

Quote

The property transfer tax return form will require a Social Insurance Number from all transferees who are Canadian Citizens or permanent residents. Invalid social insurance numbers or other discrepancies will lead to an audit and investigation.

http://www.advisor.ca/news/industry-news/all-you-need-to-know-about-vancouvers-foreign-buyer-tax-209789

A foreigner is a foreigner. Seems that the Canadians did not get caught up in exemptions. I do not feel that in any way this policy was xenophobic. It was a pragmatic policy to help Canadian citizens.

From articles I read while looking for this, it appears the government are very pleased with the results and other metropolitan areas are asking for the same tax to be introduced.

Edited by Sawitcoming

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I'd introduce a wealth tax, on this who own more than one property...... Its simply effective and cannot be effectively used for fraud, those who hide BTL assets. Use that money to wipe off student debts... kill two birds with one stone. 

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We already have a tax on foreign buyers in the form of the 3% additional stamp duty for second homes (you pay it if you already own a home anywhere else in the world, which the majority of foreign buyers will do). 

So why does Boris feel the need to propose a tax on foreign buyers without mentioning this? Just to score points with the Tory base by tying it into his big Brexit 'vision'. He makes the point that we can't include EU nationals in a tax on foreign buyers at the moment. But that's a red herring not only for the reason above but because Europeans make up only a small proportion of foreign buyers. 

Zero intelligent policy ideas, maximum populism. 

 

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The guy's a chancer. I like him. Nailed that Kraut in a charity football match. Let's face it, stick that video running 24/7 on a billboard in every major town and he wins the next election with a landslide so massive it convinces Tony Blair to throw himself out of a helicopter.

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6 minutes ago, Patient London FTB said:

We already have a tax on foreign buyers in the form of the 3% additional stamp duty for second homes (you pay it if you already own a home anywhere else in the world, which the majority of foreign buyers will do). 

 

And I bet that's brilliantly enforced!

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40 minutes ago, Sawitcoming said:

It is a fair question to ask how do the government determine who is a foreign buyer. 

In Vancouver....

http://www.advisor.ca/news/industry-news/all-you-need-to-know-about-vancouvers-foreign-buyer-tax-209789

A foreigner is a foreigner. Seems that the Canadians did not get caught up in exemptions. I do not feel that in any way this policy was xenophobic. It was a pragmatic policy to help Canadian citizens.

From articles I read while looking for this, it appears the government are very pleased with the results and other metropolitan areas are asking for the same tax to be introduced.

I was in Vancouver last month and was told that while price rises had a brief pause/downturn when the tax was introduced within months they had resumed their upward path and even seemed to be accelerating (despite sales to foreign investors  falling to less than 1%) . 

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I like the policy itself. Many other countries have punitive taxation on foreign ownership. Some even have a complete ban.

I don't think anyone saw this as anti-foreigner when implemented in Canada. It was not. It was targeting the kind of foreign investment that we all here understand well. I would welcome any policies that contribute to a market correction. There will be a few deserving cases that are not the kind of foreign ownership that we would like to curtail. If they are thrown under a bus for a while then I would accept that. I have been under a bus for 10 years.

It is unfortunate that Boris may come to be associated with this policy. He is opportunistic and will be pandering to the right-wing. I would not support the policy if it became a political tool to further incite racial hatred.

45 minutes ago, Patient London FTB said:

We already have a tax on foreign buyers in the form of the 3% additional stamp duty for second homes (you pay it if you already own a home anywhere else in the world, which the majority of foreign buyers will do). 

 

I think the 15% tax in Canada is more significant than 3%. 

27 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

I was in Vancouver last month and was told that while price rises had a brief pause/downturn when the tax was introduced within months they had resumed their upward path and even seemed to be accelerating (despite sales to foreign investors  falling to less than 1%) . 

That was in one of the articles that I read. The narrative suggests that the tax was not effective. 

Quote

http://www.680news.com/2017/07/31/foreign-buyers-tax-and-other-measures-under-review-b-c-housing-minister-says/

From June 10 until Aug. 1, 2016 — one day before the tax took effect — 13.2 per cent of all property transfer transactions in Metro Vancouver involved foreign buyers, according to data from the B.C. Finance Ministry. From Aug. 2, 2016, until the end of last year, that figure fell to 2.6 per cent.

In the months after the tax, there were signs of cooling in Vancouver’s housing market, with the number of transactions falling. However, there have been signs that the market may be rebounding, as prices continue to creep up.

Quote

http://www.rebgv.org/monthly-reports?month=August&year=2017

“Conditions in our detached home market are distinct today from the dynamic in our condominium and townhome markets," Oudil said. "Detached homes have entered a balanced market. This means there's less upward pressure on prices and that buyers have more selection to choose from and more time to make their decisions."

The MLS® Home Price Index composite benchmark price for all residential properties in Metro Vancouver is currently $1,029,700. This represents a 9.4 per cent increase over August 2016 and a one per cent increase compared to July 2017.

Sales of detached properties in August 2017 reached 901, a 26 per cent increase from the 715 detached sales recorded in August 2016. The benchmark price for detached properties is $1,615,100. This represents a 2.2 per cent increase from August 2016 and a 0.2 per cent increase compared to July 2017.

 

However, prices and volumes are up. Where are they up from? The August 2016 report suggests they have some ground to recover yet.

Quote

http://www.rebgv.org/monthly-reports?month=August&year=2016

Sales of detached properties in August 2016 reached 715, a decrease of 44.6 per cent from the 1,290 detached sales recorded in August 2015. The benchmark price for detached properties increased 35.8 per cent from August 2015 to $1,577,300. This represents a 4.2 per cent increase over the last three months.

The prices, seem to be recovering but the volumes not so much. Similar story to what we have here - Big drop in volume but prices (as officially reported) appear to defy gravity still. 

Looking at the graphs below, it looks like prices really were headed for the moon on a near vertical trajectory. 

 

 

Screen Shot 2017-09-17 at 21.36.22.png

Screen Shot 2017-09-17 at 21.37.59.png

Edited by Sawitcoming

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