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barrabus

If you claim Income Support,

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1 minute ago, dougless said:

Good question.  I suppose you could include gold coins in this 'should you declare them' question.

If you have sovereigns can you not (legally) declare them as cash with their face value?

Benefit eligibility seems to depend on savings and investments, not non-income generating assets.  eg. If you are renting and have saved £30k towards buying a house then tough luck for income support and probably most other benefits too (like housing benefit) should you become unemployed .... but one can be living in a fully paid up £300000 house and it's not counted.  You'll even get the rates/council tax paid for you.

 

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They like to know about investments, and they use market valuation to determine if you need support.

So yes.

Anything that goes through your bank these days will raise flags if you're claiming anyway.

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1 hour ago, Sour Mash said:

If you have sovereigns can you not (legally) declare them as cash with their face value?

Benefit eligibility seems to depend on savings and investments, not non-income generating assets.  eg. If you are renting and have saved £30k towards buying a house then tough luck for income support and probably most other benefits too (like housing benefit) should you become unemployed .... but one can be living in a fully paid up £300000 house and it's not counted.  You'll even get the rates/council tax paid for you.

 

It's for this reason and ZIRP I've been seriously thinking about taking all my stored wealth 'off grid'. It's no use as a house deposit at the moment and When the economic SHTF, and it will, I'll be throwing my self at the state like everyone else. 

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1 hour ago, bomberbrown said:

 

It's for this reason and ZIRP I've been seriously thinking about taking all my stored wealth 'off grid'. It's no use as a house deposit at the moment and When the economic SHTF, and it will, I'll be throwing my self at the state like everyone else. 

How can you do this though?  You can't use cash for anything much.  Gold purchases are heavily monitored. 

I don't understand nor trust Bitcoin.

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1 hour ago, longgone said:

how ?  

Someone told me all gold sales >5k are reported. 

Mismatch between lifestyle and income is detected by state software.

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51 minutes ago, kzb said:

Someone told me all gold sales >5k are reported. 

Mismatch between lifestyle and income is detected by state software.

i could get 10 pre paid credit cards top up 50k of cash and spend it then throw them away where would it show up ? or use normal cards and pay the bill off with cash or just find a gold bullion dealer and walk in with cash . 

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1 hour ago, kzb said:

Someone told me all gold sales >5k are reported. 

Mismatch between lifestyle and income is detected by state software.

true.

precious metals  purchases in excess of £5k are reported.In fact most allocated accounts will require a minimum of £5k and authenticated/notarised official ID to begin with.

not really that big a deal TBH...just go for UK legal tender coins in storage and it's CGT free.

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1 minute ago, oracle said:

true.

precious metals  purchases in excess of £5k are reported.In fact most allocated accounts will require a minimum of £5k and authenticated/notarised official ID to begin with.

not really that big a deal TBH...just go for UK legal tender coins in storage and it's CGT free.

should add, small denomination gold or reasonable supply of silver is perfectly ok for "external" storage...40-50 oz silver in 1oz denomination per month or so delivered is still a useful insurance policy

 

i said on here before, please read the T's and C's of ETF's and unallocated/allocated accounts.......most people believe that they have property rights in a SHTF scenario with ETF';s and unallocated.....you do not.you have CREDIT rights(to the market value of the investment, not the bits of metal)

 

ETF's etc are fine for speculators and short-term traders,but not for long term investment.

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i think the key with bitcoin is to hold it until you dont need to convert it into fiat. Hold it until you can spent it as bitcoin.
Until its converted to fiat i guess you could claim its worthless? 

If you are claiming income support, and happen to have a rolex in your drawer, do you have to declare that as an asset on income support?

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Can you really own a home outright and still claim benefits?

If so, then anyone with enough cash to buy a flat or whatever would be a fool not too, especially if they were not working.

So if you had 100k and managed to buy something for 85k, then in theory you could claim benefits as your savings are below the 16k threshold.

Doesn't seem right to me?

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30 minutes ago, ExiledMatty said:

Can you really own a home outright and still claim benefits?

If so, then anyone with enough cash to buy a flat or whatever would be a fool not too, especially if they were not working.

So if you had 100k and managed to buy something for 85k, then in theory you could claim benefits as your savings are below the 16k threshold.

Doesn't seem right to me?

I am   pretty sure that is true.

 

Property is a very protected asset class in theis country.  If someone speculates on property and losses, they will pull the 'but I'll be out on the streets' tactic, as and thinks they should be bailed out.  That is one reason prices didnt go through the floor in the great recession.

Edited by reddog

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It's a long time since I claimed IS (37 years ago) so I am no expert on what it's like now.

However, I concur that they probably don't take your house (your home) value into account.

I'm not sure what the position is with second homes or property empires though.  That would be worth checking. 

If you were collecting rent from properties you own I am sure that would count as income.

If you spent your dosh on property but kept it empty you would have the council tax and upkeep to pay for, so you're wasting money.

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17 hours ago, longgone said:

i could get 10 pre paid credit cards top up 50k of cash and spend it then throw them away where would it show up ? or use normal cards and pay the bill off with cash or just find a gold bullion dealer and walk in with cash . 

point number one, you can't top up with 5k of cash.  They wouldn't allow you. 

If you spread it amongst multiple cards, say 2k each whatever the reporting limit is, and all within a short time period, this activity would be detected by the snooping software.  That's what they claim anyhow.

Or perhaps I am worrying unduly.  When you see what certain people get away with it can't be that efficient.  Or maybe some people are allowed to get away with stuff and others are not.  I think this is the truth of it.

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30 minutes ago, kzb said:

point number one, you can't top up with 5k of cash.  They wouldn't allow you. 

If you spread it amongst multiple cards, say 2k each whatever the reporting limit is, and all within a short time period, this activity would be detected by the snooping software.  That's what they claim anyhow.

Or perhaps I am worrying unduly.  When you see what certain people get away with it can't be that efficient.  Or maybe some people are allowed to get away with stuff and others are not.  I think this is the truth of it.

there is always a way , if i was buying gold i would find a way 

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6 hours ago, ExiledMatty said:

Can you really own a home outright and still claim benefits?

If so, then anyone with enough cash to buy a flat or whatever would be a fool not too, especially if they were not working.

So if you had 100k and managed to buy something for 85k, then in theory you could claim benefits as your savings are below the 16k threshold.

Doesn't seem right to me?

That's about the height of it.

 

If you have cash in the bank/ premium bonds/ equities/ investments generally,  you will be penalised with regards to the benefits you are able to claim.  Above £6k they start to deduct payments for income support, I think above 16k you are entitled to nothing.  Not sure of the other benefits but I think housing benefit isn't paid if your savings are above £16k.

On the other hand, if you live in a multi-million quid house and have a Ferrari on the drive but less than 6k in savings/ investments, full JSA.  Your benefits will also cover the rates/ council tax on your home.

So, if you are saving towards buying a house and become unemployed, tough luck.  Spend all your savings on the cost of living and rent and then get back to the dole office whenever they fall below the 16k threshold.

 

TL;DR - don't bother being sensible with money if you ever want to claim welfare benefits.

 

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40 minutes ago, Sour Mash said:

On the other hand, if you live in a multi-million quid house and have a Ferrari on the drive but less than 6k in savings/ investments, full JSA.  Your benefits will also cover the rates/ council tax on your home.

Say you owned a second home, would that be taken into account?

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10 minutes ago, kzb said:

Say you owned a second home, would that be taken into account?

I believe it would be counted as an asset that you could sell, and they would then calculate the benefit as if you had sold it and put it into savings (-10% for costs).

iirc There are exceptions if you have a dependent relative living in it.  Just google it, plenty of info out there (especially on MSE).

A primary residence however, has absolutely no impact on benefit calculations.  You can have any amount of equity in it - hundreds of thousands, has no effect on eligibility to claim benefits.  Whereas someone who has managed to save anything over 16k towards hopefully buying when prices get sensible gets absolutely no means-tested benefits whatsoever.

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53 minutes ago, Sour Mash said:

I believe it would be counted as an asset that you could sell, and they would then calculate the benefit as if you had sold it and put it into savings (-10% for costs).

iirc There are exceptions if you have a dependent relative living in it.  Just google it, plenty of info out there (especially on MSE).

A primary residence however, has absolutely no impact on benefit calculations.  You can have any amount of equity in it - hundreds of thousands, has no effect on eligibility to claim benefits.  Whereas someone who has managed to save anything over 16k towards hopefully buying when prices get sensible gets absolutely no means-tested benefits whatsoever.

I was just wondering about the second home thingy.  I guess if you had a dependent relative living in it, they would assume they are paying rent.  That would count as income so they've got you on that one as well.

So your options on the property front are limited.  You could pay off a lump of your outstanding mortgage. 

Even with that, they would notice there has been a recent large movement of dosh out your bank accounts and question where it went ?

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1 minute ago, kzb said:

I was just wondering about the second home thingy.  I guess if you had a dependent relative living in it, they would assume they are paying rent.  That would count as income so they've got you on that one as well.

So your options on the property front are limited.  You could pay off a lump of your outstanding mortgage. 

Even with that, they would notice there has been a recent large movement of dosh out your bank accounts and question where it went ?

You couldn't buy a second property to dodge having benefits docked but you can certainly buy a primary residence to 'ringfence' your money if you don't already own a house.  Of course, if there's a HPC you could stand to lose a chunk of that should you end up forced to sell during the crash.

You can also prepare by cutting down on using credit/debit cards and instead withdraw amounts of cash regularly over a period of time, paying for living costs with cash.  Who's to say that you took out an extra few hundred quid more than you needed for cost of living every month and put that towards gold and silver coins, or secondhand high end watches or the like?  (Of course, you would declare anything that you are required to.)

Another thing you could do if you own a house or are sure you can stay where you are renting (thanks to housing benefit), is to buy and store a lot of long shelf-life food in anticipation of having to live off benefits later on.  That's going to cut your living expenses considerably when you use it.  If you owned a house with a suitable south facing roof area, you could also buy a solar/battery setup and reduce costly energy bills down the line later on when your income is restricted.  Maybe even get a secondhand electric vehicle and you can retain cheap to run personal transport later on (some can also augment battery storage for the house).  Again if you have a house, buying selected secondhand designer furniture to kit out your home is a good way to store some wealth as well as improving your personal comfort.  You can always sell it for cash and go to Ikea (or Gumtree) for replacements if you need funds down the line.

 

The key is not to be caught unemployed with a bunch of bank savings/ premium bonds/ equities/ investment funds representing your wealth that you were saving to buy a house when prices normalised .. only to find that an economic crisis comes along and you lose your job.  You will be expected to divest yourself of most of what you have saved, to support yourself before you can access benefits, vs someone who has pissed away everything they had and not bothered to save for a rainy day who gets everything instantly.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Sour Mash said:

You couldn't buy a second property to dodge having benefits docked but you can certainly buy a primary residence to 'ringfence' your money if you don't already own a house.  Of course, if there's a HPC you could stand to lose a chunk of that should you end up forced to sell during the crash.

You can also prepare by cutting down on using credit/debit cards and instead withdraw amounts of cash regularly over a period of time, paying for living costs with cash.  Who's to say that you took out an extra few hundred quid more than you needed for cost of living every month and put that towards gold and silver coins, or secondhand high end watches or the like?  (Of course, you would declare anything that you are required to.)

Another thing you could do if you own a house or are sure you can stay where you are renting (thanks to housing benefit), is to buy and store a lot of long shelf-life food in anticipation of having to live off benefits later on.  That's going to cut your living expenses considerably when you use it.  If you owned a house with a suitable south facing roof area, you could also buy a solar/battery setup and reduce costly energy bills down the line later on when your income is restricted.  Maybe even get a secondhand electric vehicle and you can retain cheap to run personal transport later on (some can also augment battery storage for the house).  Again if you have a house, buying selected secondhand designer furniture to kit out your home is a good way to store some wealth as well as improving your personal comfort.  You can always sell it for cash and go to Ikea (or Gumtree) for replacements if you need funds down the line.

 

The key is not to be caught unemployed with a bunch of bank savings/ premium bonds/ equities/ investment funds representing your wealth that you were saving to buy a house when prices normalised .. only to find that an economic crisis comes along and you lose your job.  You will be expected to divest yourself of most of what you have saved, to support yourself before you can access benefits, vs someone who has pissed away everything they had and not bothered to save for a rainy day who gets everything instantly.

 

 

 

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  • 295 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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